Logic: If they live on trees in their original habitat, they should have filtered light coming in and temperatures usual in shade... So maybe that is why they start really developing when colder temperatures arrive. Mine is still just IS. It does not do anything particular.

My Papillio is growing nicely... it sits in an east window and gets morning sunshine. It seems to like it, though.

Here's my Papillio Butterfly... I took this picture about 5 minutes ago...

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And here's my new Amalfi... it's only been planted for a few days, and already it's pushing up green!

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Thanks for looking!

I repotted my Papilio today trying to find the cause of it's center leaf drying out. It took me almost 15 min. trying to get the whole thing, plant and soil, out of the pot. I know it's got LOTS of roots but boy did I not expect this...

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Could this be causing the problem?

WOW!!!

That's almost what my Minerva looked like when I finally got it out of the old pot!! And she only had the one baby! If I had to guess, I'd say that it's probably beginning to choke itself with that much of a root system, and at that point, there's not much soil left around it... Minerva is really happy in her larger pot, and she is beginning to lose her leaves, one by one, as she does every year this time, in anticipation of a little rest before she explodes into bloom at the beginning of February.

I must say, though, the roots look healthy...

I know Jodic. The roots are very healthy, bulb is very firm...what could have caused the problem? Anyway, this papilio is now potted in the next size pot (10"). I'll see if it will grow a healthy new leaf in a few weeks time. If not, it's time to email the experts!

That was the appropriate moment to repot!
Maria, you will see that the three babies will grow much faster after some weeks! As to the mother bulb, its fate will come to light faster! IF it is capable of producing new leaves at all then you will become aware of that sooner.
I think that that wahat you did was better as compared to destroy the root ball and separate the daughter plants in order to get access towards a closer inspection on the mother bulb. That is sort of "maintaining cold nerves" and I admire that. I know, yes I do, very well how hard it is to wait - while not knowing at all what the hell is going on there, in the core of that mother bulb!

Hans-Werner,

Normally, if I have a bulb that is this root bound and over crowded, I will loosen the roots when I repot them. Often, I will separate the bulbs, and yes, that is at the expense of some of the roots. Then, I repot, with fresh soiless mix, either in a larger pot or separate pots, all in preparation for eventually being permanently planted in the garden.

I do this normally, in the winter, when they are more or less dormant (and it is cooler working conditions).

Is this not a good thing to do for Papillio?

Maria, I had problems with Chico when it first arrived last year. After I gave it more warmth, in the greenhouse, healthy leaves started forming. It is now sporting 10 leaves, and I surely hope to see my first blooms this winter!

Well thank you so much for your support Sir Hans! I would NEVER dare destroy such good roots. If it did have bad roots, then I will do as you said above and treat the problem. I rever this plant so much to the point that I kinda 'respect' it. Do you guys ever get that feeling? Or am I going nuts?

It is very frustrating for me. Hopefully in a few weeks I would know the answer.

Your mother bulb does not look unhealthy. It has nice green leaves, healthy roots... I would not worry myself to death... :o) Try to appreciate what you have, not think about what could happen and worry too much. I know a person who is like that. She is my friend in Hungary... Just to set up the meeting when I arrived there took about 3 hours of phone calls back and forth. I was screaming by the end, and told her that I'd rather not meet than plan so much.
Try not to worry about that might be inevitable. You have done your best to save your mother bulb. Your "respect" can help too. I wish you both good recovery and much health.

While it is true that I would be heartbroken if my Minerva were to fall ill, there is only so much I can do for her... I would do my best and let God take over. If it His will that she survive, then she will... but if she is called to grow in the Garden of Eden, then so be it... either way, she is in good hands, and I will know that I have cared for her the best I can, and she has given me much joy in the time I have had her...

You are doing everything you possibly can to care for your bulb properly, Maria... have patience... only time will tell if it will begin to grow new leaves again. It was quite pot-bound and perhaps it just needs time to spread out its feet. If it was that crowded, I would imagine that it was putting effort into growing its offspring, and not itself.

I hope it does well for you again... it's really a lovely grouping!

Hugs to everybody! Thanks guys, I really needed those encouraging words. I surely will update you about this.

Now, isn't there anybody else out there who has problems with their Papilios? Please come join us and we will all try to help each other.

Hehe... You know my stand point... My Papillios are not doing anything. same leaves, same posture, same everything for months. Yours is vivid and living. Mine is like in a trans.

Soultan...What's the temp there in CA now? Could it be too hot for them? Mine just liked the 70-80s temp. More than that, they rest.

OR, they are concentrating in rooting. Papilio as you have said, are tree dwellers in their natural habitat. Just like orchids. I have a feeling they do not like too much growing medium. And they prefer the dry side.

Try to plant one in a small clay pot. If I remember right, Sir Hans mentioned this before about Papilio liking to be rootbound. This Papilio pictured above started in a 6"pot, got rootbound like pic above before it got transferred to an 8" pot.

They LOVE pure coco peat and organic fertilizer too. I'll send you some very good quality coco peat from PI and the organic fertilizer I use on them if you want to try it.

Right now it is 60+F. Mid 70s otherwise. We had two nights of rain and hazy day today, but otherwise, it will not be very rainy for a while yet, so I don't plan to water the bed. They can just suck up all the water from the rain for a while... I hope that this will jump start the new bulbs (the ones I just planted out recently.) I planted a lot of bulbs out when I returned from Hungary, and they seem not too happy to be out there yet. They have not started new growth... I though maybe they are not too happy that the weather turned colder now... The rain might have helped them to get their roots wet and think about greening up. Who knows... Hopefully this colder temp and rain was a blessing for them. First time for me having them out in a flower bed, so experience will come with time.

Soultan...The Papilios will like that temp. except for the rain.

There is no rain anymore. Papillios are sitting "pretty," and not doing anything. :o)

Just an update on this Papilio. The mother bulb has totally lost all it's leaves. :-(

Hey Chaz...How is your Papilio doing?

Maria,
I posted in another thread here about this, of course I can't find it now! What I did was inject NEEM into the crown with a flavor injector syringe. I also injected into the sided of the bulbs as if going between the leaves. I really fear that I have narcissus bulb maggots, There seems to be no damage to the bulb so far from this treatment, and one of them actually looks like it's grown some. The other is just hanging on, I'm hoping this may have saved at least one of them. The insecticidal and anti fungal properties of the neem should help...I hope.
I'll keep you posted on the progress.

Maria... maybe it's time to separate the babies from the mother bulb, just in case you can't save the mother bulb... I have no idea what would cause it to lose all of its leaves and stop growing... I wish I could help...

Chaz... I'm glad that the injections haven't had a negative effect on the bulbs... but I am curious to find out what the problem really is...

I, myself, have a couple of bulbs that grow short leaves, and then they die back... although, some of those bulbs have grown longer leaves now, and appear to be fine... I'm just going to have to watch and see what happens, I guess... and remove any bulbs that appear too sick to make it... I hope that doesn't happen, though... I like all my bulbs.

I suppose it's inevitable that at some point, one or more of my bulbs will develop a problem and need to be destroyed, or simply die of whatever that problem is... as much as I'd like them all to be perfect, I know that's not the way of things...

Mariava, sorry to hear you are having problems with your papilio. I've been monitoring this line of discussion for awhile. I really like the idea of injecting bulbs with systemics. Good idea. I find H. papilio the most resilient of all my Hippeastrums. In fact, mongrel papilios have become weeds in my lawn. The only problem I have ever noticed was this year a bit of fungus on the leaves during exceptionally heavy rains, with daily temps in the 90Fs, while growing in too much shade. I have found they like large clay pots, excellent drainage and good fertilizer with minors. If you loose the lot please let me know and I'll gladly send you replacements for your collection. Below is a pic from two years ago in my backyard.
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And last year
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Chaz...Thanks for that update. I might try that injection method if I get to see one of my bulbs starting to look like what Papilio did. I know that the mother bulb is gone. I wonder if it's the bulblets who are feeding the mother bulb right now. It just amazes me that it still is very firm even without leaves.

Jodi...I am VERY scared to disturb this lot. Maybe if the mother bulb starts showing/feeling soft, I will have to do it and seperate them...Ouch!

Houstonpat...Oh my...Thank you so much for offering me a Papilio. I will try my best to save this lot. It is my most treasured plant. If I can't, I'll let you know so you can send me one of your "weeds". You lucky one from Texas...lol!
How's the infamous variegated papilio doing? Is it liking the cooler weather too just like the regular papilios?

Weed Papilio mongrels. :o) One person's weed is another person's treasure. I am from Hungary, and most of the plants we just plant out for hedges here in California are expensive household plants that housewives treasure and tend to like babies... And here? I just trim them, run them over... Leander? I have several hedges of it. At home, a weak seedling costs a fortune... I wouldn't mind if my lawn were scattered with amaryllis seedlings. Though I am too particular. I would remove the seed pods just before they open up for sure, so scattering most likely wouldn't happen. Maybe with the Naked ladies. I don't collect their seeds at all.

HoustonPat - I would love it if hippis grew like weeds up here for me! You're very lucky... although, you have the climate for it, and for you, it's probably just another volunteer plant! Your Papilios are beautiful! The one I have is still a dinky little thing growing in my east window... but it is growing and seems happy...

Soultan - Do you mean Oleander? Another plant that can't be grown here! Even the Azaleas and Rhododendrons are limited for us! Not many varieties are that hardy! It's funny... plants that are weeds in tropical areas are prized container plants here! Tropical areas can't grow everything we can, either, though... so, it's a two way street!

Maria - I don't know... if it were me, I'd want to get the babies away from whatever is killing the mother bulb... I'd probably separate them... unless they're too young and don't have their own root systems yet... I don't know a lot about Papilio, but if the bulb is still firm, maybe this is just a form of resting as she has produced a lot of babies? Maybe her energy is feeding the babies... I hope it's nothing serious, and she grows again for you...

Yes. Oleander. It is practically weed here. All over the place. Easy to keep, trimmed regularly. Azaleas and Hybiscus are the same.
Amaryllis is "weed" in the South Americas and how crazy we are about them. I have just spent another fortune on a new order. :o) Crazy? You bet!

It's a good kind of crazy, though, Soultan!

I love my "weeds"! Wouldn't it be cool to have amaryllis just start growing everywhere in your garden, like weeds?! I must say, these are some gorgeous weeds!

Hello, Mariava
The first time I observed it, It was a mother bulb surrounded by bulblets, I thought it was the end of the mother bulb (natural death).It proved that it had gone dorment. some of my bulbs go in to dormancy whle there bulblets refuse to go to sleep. I have also frequently observed younger inbetween leaves dry up while the older ones are not effected.

Glad to send you a bulb in the spring if yours crash Mariava. - Good memory on the variegated pap. It's doing OK. It would be nice if it grew faster. But then, it gets little care. We expect 28F in a couple days. These cold fronts are always a huge hassel since I grow plumeria in the ground, grow many tropical ferns, palms, encephalartos, clivia and heleconia outdoors.
My new digital camera is fun. I took this pic a few minutes ago. :)
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Arif... what causes the new leaves to die like that, even though the older leaves are not affected? Do you know? I have a couple of bulbs doing this, but then they grow more leaves and appear fine...

ARIF...Hi there! I'm so sorry about what's happening to your country. The exact thing happened to the Philippines during the Marcos regime when Aquino, a political rival, was assasinated. I hope 2008 would bring peace to your country. There is always hope.
Yes, I have been adviced that the mother bulb could have gone to "survival" mode to give way to the babies. I think I have no choice but to seperate the bulblets which are mature enough.

With such root mass and bulblets in active growth, how would I go about in seperating them? It seems impossible to "tinker" with the roots without hurting them. Should I wait till spring maybe? Should I just go ahead and cut them out with a sharp knife as if slicing a cake? Oh my, I might faint doing this...lol!

Houstonpat...You variegated Papilio is looking good there and has grown much since you last posted a pic. Slower growth and browning of side of the leaves are a common characteristics of some variegated plants. They need cooler temp., lesser water direct sun. I had a variegated "McArthur Palm" (I don't know the scientific name sorry) that was finicky. The green ones were grown in full sun but this variegated one flourished in 50% shade. It has won a lot of blue ribbons in the Philippine Horticultural show.

Maria - I would remove the root mass from the pot, wash all the soil off the root ball, and gently try to pull and tease apart the roots... it may take some time, but I'm not sure I would cut into anything unless a bulblet needed to be cut off the mother bulb... some roots are bound to break or tear, and I suppose there's not too much you can do about that... except seal the broken roots with an anti-fungal before re-potting...

When I separate Hostas or any tough perennial from the garden, I just slice it apart with a sharp, clean knife... but even I would be afraid of doing this to my hippis!

I wish you the best of luck with your Papilios!

HoustonPat - That's a nice variegated plant, there! It would be pretty cool if there were more hippis with different types of leaves... I did notice that Maguire's has a couple of varieties with bronze leaves... but no variegation that I saw... I only wish I could grow the kinds of plants in my garden that you can! I'm stuck trying to fit everything I want to grow in my window areas, or hauling it in and out with the seasons!

Jodi...Yes, just thinking about it scares me. I think I should wait till it warms up a bit. The cold temps, or should I say too cold, won't help them much in recovery and rooting I think.

Jodik, I wish I knew.
Maria, I would just transfer them to a bigger pot.
ARIF

Arif may be right... if they have more room to spread out their roots, they may be happier... and maybe it will prompt Mother Bulb to grow again... I am planning on a mass re-potting effort in the spring... a lot of my bulbs are in pots that are too small... it's all I had available at the time... and I know they will need more root room!

I have a question about the general culture of Papilio... I'm sure it was discussed in the past, but...

Do Papilio bulbs like a bit more moisture than the hybrids? Or is it the other way around, and they can tolerate a touch more dryness?

I try to water all of my bulbs only when they are a little on the dry side, mostly to keep away the rot and fungus... I know they can easily be over-watered and this can cause the roots to rot. I've been there, and luckily saved the bulbs!

But I think Papilios are a bit different, no?

It's been my experiance that papilios, like virtually all plants, tend to prefer less water when it is cold out and more when it is hot. As I've posted before, and is general knowledge, they grow fairly well as an epiphyte and seem to do better with excellent drainage.
Tonight I will closely monitor the temperature and dew point, and will do some testing on frost hardiness. I expect 28F - 29F. I expect only foliage damage. I use quite a bit of magnesium in my fertilizer which may reduce damage. We'll see.

Thank you, Houston Pat... It is winter, after all, so I'm doing right by only watering when they require, and keeping them a touch on the dry side... it seems that cold and damp is a good recipe for rot!

I'm interested in how well your bulbs fare in the cold you're expecting... 28-29 degrees is fairly cold!

I keep my Papilio right on the east window sill, and it likes the morning sun... it hasn't suffered at all from the slight chill of the windowpane... except for a brown leaf tip or two... which is odd, because Exotic Star and a pot of rain lilies sit with their leaves right against the glass, and neither of them have brown leaf tips at all!

Anyway... I got my Papilio before I discovered coco coir, and I haven't re-potted it yet into the better mix... it's just in regular potting soil, and it seems to be just fine... I do want to get it into a better draining mix, though... spring will be re-potting time for a lot of my bulbs!

Let us know how your bulbs do out in the chill tonight! We're experiencing a cold snap here, too! As I look out the window, I see snow blowing sideways! And I can tell you that it's extremely cold and windy out there, having just come in from taking care of the kennel, although I don't know the exact temperature! I'm staying inside for the rest of today!

Jodi,

We are a few degrees colder than Houston and have already had temp down to 29 a couple of times. Depending on how protected they are, they will lose foliage which will quickly swivel up, turn brown and fall off.

Patrick,

I don't usually worry much about 29-30, but if it's really early, like in November, I often will cover them with a blanket the night of the freeze (if they are in the ground) just to try to save the foliage for a bit longer.

My brother helped me install plastic on my porch yesterday. He accidently stepped on one of my big Johnsonii. Poor thing... The neck was crushed, but thankfully these bulbs tend to grow best when planted deeper because they have such long necks. I was probably more crushed than the Johnsonii.

He said, "Awe... It will be fine." I checked this morning, and what is left of the neck was perking up. I covered it with a bucket and later this afternoon, I'll cover the bucket with an old blanket.

I don't know about Papilio, and the cybisters, though, and oh, my doubles... I tend to be protective of all of those and bring them inside to provide heat.

Good luck, and do keep us posted!

Maria,

As long as your mother bulb itself is not looking sick, I would do as Hans-Werner and Arif suggested and just give the roots more soil.

Update, don't know if you all can see the image clear enough but this is the larger of my mother papillio bulbs with what I believe is narcicuss fly damage. If you look close enough you can see that the base of the central leaves as been eaten a bit, this damage was done inside the bulb. The newer leaves had just died and dried up insitu.
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This is the most recent photo taken this morning after the NEEM injections into the bulbs, The leaves have grown some, the bulb is still very firm. Hopefully the 3 injections into the bulb have killed the maggot.

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the second bulb is not looking so well but the remaining leaf seems to be growing, maybe I'll get some bulblets off it if the maggot has been killed.

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I have a three year old bulb that has produced offsets. When I purchased the original bulbs I was told to let them grow year round like any other houseplant.I'm just east of St. Louis in western Illinois, zone 6A. This year my plants only bloomed in the spring, but usually they bloom again in late summer for me. I'd be very thankful for more info on this or any links to info on the culture of my Papilios that you can give me. Thanks in advance, Anita

Anita, I actually haven't been able to keep mature bulbs evergreen! The go dormant on their own during July the immature bulbs have stayed evergreen though. Unfortunately I only get one bloom a year from them :(

Has anyone tried the "Hot Water Bath" treatment?

"A hot water bath is one of those harmless-t-everything treatments that destroys all kinds of bad things in the garden and greenhouse. Daffodil growers use them to cure their bulbs of the nasty little Narcissus Bulb Fly, which incidentally will also attack Amaryllis bulbs. Each bulb is dipped for exactly 40 minutes in water heated to 110 degrees C for 40 minutes, then quickly removed to minimize heat damage to the bulb.

Some growers immediately dip treated bulbs in Sulphur, Thiabendazole or Thiophanate Methyl, which are fungicides. I prefer Sulphur because it is the most organic thing you can get your hands on.

Once dried, the bulbs can be replanted but should be monitored to make sure they are no longer infected."

Pax, what is the trick to keeping the water at 110 degrees for 40 min? using the oven? wouldn't alot of water evaporate using the stovetop? Can you explain your tecnique? Thanks much!

I have tried this using a large kettle of water and wrapped it in towels. Perhaps a crock pot might work.

How would this be done to a growing bulb? these bulbs have 6-7 inch leaves on them. Would I have to trim the leaves and uproot the bulbs? The roots on these plants completely filled a 12 inch pot!!

I succesfully treated afflicted bulbs by heating then in a hot-air oven to 45 deg. Celsius ( = 112 F ) during 1,5 hours.
I just left them in their pot, after I kept the ground dry for some days. Mind the leaves do not touch the sides of the oven as they are much hotter, and may dry out.
The energy in hot air is much less than the energy in hot water of the same temperature: therefore overheating for a short time is not as critical as doing this in water, and you don't need to dry your bulbs.

Below a picture of a treated bulb 2 weeks later:
you see there is no more red blotch on the fresh growth, and even a new scape appeared.

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Wow! That's pretty interesting! By hot air oven, do you mean convection? I could see the advantages of air over water...

I don't know what is meant by a convection-oven : in my knowledge in that case the heat transport is by itself.( hot air rises, cool air is going down, no ventilation )

The oven I use is an electric oven in which the hot air circulates continuously by a fan. Temperature distribution is rather even. ( only the metal sides are (much) hotter where-behind the heating element is located )
Temperature range from 40 deg Celcius ( 105 F ) till 250 deg Celsius ( 480 F ) in steps of 5 deg C ( 9 F )

I hope this info helps.

Yes... A convection oven cooks with hot air, not an open electric element or flame... it circulates the hot air around the food being cooked... I think we may be talking about the same type of oven! What you describe sounds very much like the small convection oven we used to have. It just plugs into the wall outlet for electricity... ours was rather small...