What are your hybridizing goals, bambi? Figure out what you'd like to create, and that will dictate which plants to choose.

If you just want to learn what kind of traits combine with what to produce what, pick a selection that covers all the basic categories of markings and growth habits, such as carolinae, ampullacea, olens, marmorata, concentrica and Fireball. These are all common species, and have all been heavily worked with, so don't expect to get anything radically new.

For more diverse and unpredictable results, choose hybrid parents instead of species. Spend some time looking at thumbnails on FCBS and when you see something you like, make a note of what the parentage is and then check the registry for other crosses made with the same plant to see what the common traits are, if any. You can learn a lot and save yourself a lot of time and effort that way, but in the end, you just have to jump in and try it.

One more thing-- if you limit yourself to just 6 parents, by my calculations there's only 15 possible combinations of any two that you can make, not counting all of the reciprocal crosses (i.e. carolinae x concentrica vs. concentrica x carolinae), so that's a pretty small gene pool to work with unless you use complex hybrids to begin with.

If you're determined to limit it, then I'd choose hybrids with traits similar to the species mentioned above, but with as diverse a background as possible, unless there's something particular you're going for.

The perfect 6 pack may be hard to achieve.....!

Hybridising is typically a very slow process, and the percentage of quality plants produced from a batch is very low. However, if you are prepared to take the journey, it can be rewarding to create your 'own' plant.

Lisa is right, first think about what you wish to create, and what you want in your hybrids. Do you plan to produce miniature plants with excellent compact form and nice markings, or perhaps, mid size plants with strong, deep, long lasting colour for use in landscaping.

Anyway....to answer your question.....I suggest you start with a selection of minature Neo's. These are always popular, and I think the future is bright for these little plants.

For somewhat predictable results you could start with species like...ampullacea, chlorosticta Marble Throat, olens, lilliputiana, and say punctatissima. To come up with some suprise results, use hybrids as your parent plants...you could select some of the nice Grace Goode punctatisima hybrids, like Alley Cat, & Wild Tiger...or Lisa's 'Blushing Tiger'(this is one that I would like to try...!).

When you do make your selections, ensure you obtain the very best clones that you can. If you have excellent parent plants, then you improve you chances of obtaining a couple of excellent hybrids.

Good luck...and have fun.....!

another fun plant to work with is Shamrock

Ok let me clarify some things. I said 6 figuring I would get a pretty wide variety from the bunch of you. I set a price of $30.00, because you can still get some pretty nice plants for $30.00 or less, and I should have specified Hybrids. I like color, bands, spots etc.

I want small to medium plants to work with because of space, I'm looking at getting started in a small way to see if its something I really want to do. I hybridize Daylilys, I don't even know how many I have, I figure I'm at about 6,000 seedlings right now and plan on planting 3 to 4 thousand seeds next month. I'm aware of the time factor. It typically takes 2 years to bloom daylily seedlings in northern Ohio, some bloom in 1 year, most in 2, and some take 3.

You are right 6 plants does not give me a lot of possible crosses, but when you consider that every hybrid carries the genes of every plant in its parentage, you are not really just breeding with 6 plants. If you are looking at the hybrid of 2 hybrids that are F1 from wild plants, you are already looking at 4 sets of genes from 4 species.

I said reasonably available, meaning I could probably get it from Michaels, meaning please don't mention some obscure hybrid that only a dozen people in the US have, and can't be found.

Lisa, when I breed Daylilys, I will sometimes go back to older plants, because with the new plants new combinations are possible. I do a lot of work with species Hemerocallis, because many of them have not been used in a long time. They bring back vigor, height, and fragrance, so if there are some species you are fond of, or have a trait your looking for, by all means use them AGAIN. There is also a lot to be said for backcrossing and sib crossing to enhance traits you are looking for.

OK lets start over....GIVE ME 6, PLEASE.

Bambi,
Only 6 is a tall order. Biggest challenge might be getting any 2 plants that you want to hybridize blooming at the same time. Some of my favorites are N. Royal Cordovan, it's an easier plant to grow well for me than a lot of concentrica hybrids and contributes beautiful leaf color and rich flush of color in bloom. (I live north of you, although perhaps not so far away.) N. olens var. 696 is a wonderful, smaller plant that usually contributes spotting. It's been used in a lot of hybrids, many very nice. Neo. 'Royal Burgundy' tends to produce nicely colored progeny.
I have N. 'Hannibal Lector' and several crosses with it that I would love to play around with, but so far, they've been quite stubborn to bloom. So instead, I'll recommend Lisa's N. 'Blushing Tiger' which is coming into flower soon for me, and I look forward to having some fun with that. Neo. 'Bob Work' is a nice smaller hybrid by Gary Hendrix which is listed on the current Cargo Report by its original grex name- Neo. [princeps x Fireball] x Peggy Pollard. The seed parent in that cross Gary registered as 'Granada', and the pollen parent turned out to be the species N. burlemarxii. Anyways, I've used it in a few crosses, and it's one of the more unpredictable parents- kind of fun!
For a final suggestion, choose one of Grant Groves flourescent colored Neo hybrids such as 'Passion' or 'Pink Sensation'.
These are just a few ideas. Before you get started, try to imagine what results you are hoping for. Think in terms of size, color, growth habit, etc. Let that guide your choices.
Paul

It's hard to just think of a list without thinking about what kind of results I'd want to get, and "colors, bands and spots" really doesn't narrow it down much, but here are 6 that you might consider: Cheers, Pink Sensation, Alley Cat, Gold Fever, Granada and Break of Day.

They're all fairly easy to come by, not too expensive, not too big, all free-flowering and fertile, no self-pollinators, and offer a good cross-section of traits to work with. All of the other suggestions so far have been good ones too, in my opinion. As Paul says, the biggest challenge with a small number of plants to work with would be synchronizing bloom. You can refrigerate pollen for a month or so, or freeze it for maybe a year, so that can help.

A couple of you have mentioned Blushing Tiger, and while I'm thrilled that it's become so popular, I wouldn't consider it a cornerstone of any breeding program. First of all it's a self-pollinator, so you either have to emasculate it early or just use it as a pollen parent. I've never had any luck getting it to produce anything other than selfed seed, but I think Michael and others may have. He's done a number of crosses with it, some of which are on his supplemental list. Second, I've never gotten the blushing trait to pass on, but again, someone else might have better luck with it. That plant was the one and only seedling in the grex that was banded; it was a real standout from the very beginning, but I don't think its traits are very dominant. I'm currently working on trying to improve it and hopefully produce a more stable clone, so we'll see what happens.

BTW, Paul, I recently picked up a Prairie Fire, which oddly enough reminds me a bit of BT in some ways. Have you done any further work with that? It certainly has a diverse background and might produce some interesting surprises.

I'm not really limiting myself to 6, I just wanted a selection to begin with. Feel free, to name more are there any real "must haves".

I'll go back to Daylilys, since that is what I'm familar with. I can purchase cutting edge plants year after year like every body else, and do what every body else is doing, or I can select a few really good plants, and work with some older ones. I am very good at freezing pollen, so that is a distinct possibility. I maintain a pollen bank that contains pollen from almost every daylily I own, and many more.

Your coming through for me believe it or not, I taking notes, and beginning my list.

I have a friend that has some of the most amazing daylily seedlings, that he started working on 15 years ago using just a few plants that nobody else was using. He has had people from all over the world calling him about his plants, but he doesn't have enough of anything yet to introduce any. That is a unique situation, he has demand for plants well before he has any to sell. I don't believe he wll be able to fill all the orders he will receive. I'm posting a link to a site with some of Bobs seedlings.

If I said pick 12 or 15 would it be easier? Probably not!

Here is a link that might be useful: Bobs seedlings

The latest 'whats new' shows what happens when the culls are not tossed out

So HDD, and the point of your post is?

hdd, Not an indictment against all of them, but I'm inclined to agree that a lot of good names are going to waste.
Lisa, I assume you got Prairie Fire from Michael? I sent him a pup on a whim a few years ago. Last time I visited him I brought him a couple more pups. 'Prairie Fire' is on of many Neos. that does better in a sunnier clime than it does here in Michigan. It's a very cute plant for me, but it wouldn't have a name if it hadn't been for the way it turned out for Michael. BTW, I have to credit Brian Weber for coming up with the name. As far as hybridizing with it, I honestly hadn't given it much (any) thought before. I've had a few generations bloom and never crossed it with anything. Part of the charm of Michael's plant is the way the leaves stack up, and it's stubborness to bloom. I suspect that it will tend to grow that way for you, too. If at some point in the future you're inclined to hybridize with it, I think it would be easy to chemically induce flowering. Meanwhile, I'll have to at least consider the possibilities next time it flowers for me.
Paul

Prairie fire is on my list near the top...earned its name

I did get it from Michael, Paul, but he didn't have enough to sell so he had to go track one down from a friend. LOL, I sent him running all over the place looking for stuff! He didn't have to do it, of course, and I told him that, but that's just the kind of person he is. Is it shy to pup too?

It hasn't stacked up yet, and it's just starting to get some color, having come from wintery Florida, so any resemblance to BT will probably disappear over time, it just has kind of a glossy bronzey thing going on now with a hint of zonation. I'm sure it will really start to glow as we move into summer.

I also agree that a lot of things are getting registered that really should be culled. Sometimes it's just bad photos though, or poorly cared-for plants. I would never dream of posting a pic of a really raggedy-looking specimen on FCBS, but some people don't seem to care. This may not relate directly to this thread, Bambi, we're just talking story here, although if we're going to talk about hybridizing I think there does need to be be a code of ethics, and conscientious culling should be a part of that, so that's relevant.

Don't worry I didn't take it personal, but I wanted HDDs thoughts on the subject, trust me I cull. 6 to 8 hundred seedlings a year get shredded and composted. I could probably make a couple thousand dollars if I sold them.

I'm here to learn, feed me!

I see lots of photos of plants I don't care for, but that does not mean they are bad plants? Isn't it a matter of opinion?

What exactly are the standards? Are there standards?

Tell me what makes for a good plant, I believe, its color, form/habit, hardiness, and how well it reproduces.

BTW I purchased BLUSHING TIGER last night, because I like the looks of the plant, even after your comments Lisa. I'm sure I will like it.

I'm going to get HANNIBAL LECTOR and CRACADON TIGER just because I like them.

There are no standards, really, it just comes down to consensus. Certain cvs become classics and others fade away, or should. I'm sure you know crap when you see it, but you can't always tell which ones are going to be popular. It sounds like Paul wouldn't have picked Prairie Fire to be on that list, and I wouldn't have picked Blushing Tiger, but sometimes other people can grow them better than we can and they catch on.

What I look for is a "finished" look: colors and/or markings that are clean and distinct, good symmetry, stability, vigor, uniqueness, you know.... all the usual stuff. I tend to prefer compact plants with wide leaves, but if the markings are good I'll hang onto it regardless. Pupping and flowering habit is a relative merit. If it's a stoloniferous type then you want a lot of pups before it blooms because they look best as a cluster and flowering ruins that. For a single rosette it can be a drawback to have it pup too freely because it ruins the symmetry. Ease of propagation is good when you're trying to build up stock, but if it's too easy it becomes common and the price goes down. Of course I can't get good prices where I live anyway, so it doesn't really matter, LOL. I also don't factor in cold-hardiness at all because it's simply not an issue here, but it would be if I lived elsewhere.

What it really comes down to is what you like, and eventually you will find you have some favorite parent plants. I'm not going to give you mine to add to your list, just because I feel that everyone needs to create their own signature. For example, I have done a lot of crosses with Neo. smithii, not only because it has a lot of traits that I like, but also because I don't know of anyone else that's working with it, and I like it that way! That's why it's hard to suggest things, you need to find a niche that reflects what you like and that nobody else is currently working, and I don't know what that will be for you.

It sounds like you like zonation. That's great, but I've been working on that for a while and so have a number of other people. There's always room for more, that's not what I'm saying, it's just that if you want to create a new classic you have to boldly go where no man (or woman) has gone before! ;-)

I hybridize for myself first and foremost. Yes basically I know crap when I see it. Forgive me for using Daylilys as an example again, but it is what I have been working with.

I am extremely critical, First the foliage has to look good. Second the scape needs to be above the foliage, but of reasonable height (except for the tall plants I'm working on)Third the scape has to be nicely branched, and the buds need to be spaced fairly evenly so if more than one flower opens they don't interfere with each other. Ideally I want at least 20 buds, the flowers only shine for a day, 20 buds = 20 days bloom per scape. It must multiply well, they always look better in clumps. Last but not least it should preform well from Canada to Florida. Any plants I even consider introducing will be tested in at least 3 zones. Oh yeah, the flower has to look good too!

I've been keeping a small collection of Broms for about the last 25 years, small because I wanted to keep it that way. I've found that I really like the smaller Noeregelias, and will probably work with them. I will also probably pick some of the modern hybrids and take them back to some of the species like I am doing with the daylilys. You tend to get good sturdy plants that way. Its like shuffleing the deck of cards again. I'm not saying I'll only use smaller plants, but the bulk of them will be.

I've looked up some of the plants that have been suggested, and will be purchasing some of them. One of the reasons I asked yu to pick 6 is I have not kept up with the modern bromeliad. I really didn't expect you to give up your program, but was trying to be brought up to date a little bit. I figured with this bunch here it would be easy to get some suggestions.

I am amazed at some of the plants I see Aechmea chantinii samurai, just really impresses me, and I've always been fond of the Aechmea orlandiana varieties.

That's an interesting concept of taking a hybrid back to the species. That may be a common practice with daylilies, roses or tomatoes, but I've never heard of anyone doing that with bromeliads. I'm not even sure you could do that with some of the Neos, as you'd have to be able to self-pollinate them and a lot of them seem to be self-incompatible. On the other hand there are a number of (automatic) self-pollinators, so that would probably work with them. I imagine that nobody's done it partly because most brom hybrids aren't all that far removed from the species to begin with. They haven't been subject to the kind of line breeding techniques that you described in an earlier post, or at least the Neos haven't (Vrieseas or Guzmanias, maybe). Also, if the species is still available, why bother? For example, Hannibal Lecter appears to be a self-pollinator, so presumeably you could take it back to carcharodon 'Tiger' or punctatissima rubra if you wanted to, but would those plants have any advantage over the originals? I'm asking, I don't know. Maybe they would, it's just something it's never occurred to me to do if I've got the original species right there.

You mentioned Aechmeas, but those are much harder to work with than Neos. The genus Aechmea is made up of about a dozen subgenera, and crossing the lines is as difficult as making a bigeneric. I've seldom been able to go beyond a basic 2 species cross, as the hybrids more often than not tend to be sterile. If you ask me, the whole genus is in need of revision and should probably be divided up into many genera, but so far nobody seems to want to tackle it. Ae. chantinii is one of the most receptive species to outside pollen, which is probably why there are a comparatively high number of chantinii hybrids.

I hybridize for myself too, of course, but part of the buzz for me is knowing I've done something that's never been done before. Apart from the broms, I've tinkered with a few other types of plants, including Globbas, and as far as I know nobody's been working with them. I don't know why not, I was warned it would be extremely difficult but that hasn't been the case. I have a really cool one that I've been propagating for the last several years and plan to finally release this year. I was told by a reliable authority that this will be the first man-made Globba hybrid. It amazes me that out of all the millions of people in the world I could be the first to do ANYTHING, but if that's the case then how cool is that? :-)

Not many are going back to the species with Daylilys either, but the few of us that have been are getting some amazing results. Most of the F1s are nothing special, but the flowers you get when you cross them to a modern cultivar are. I'm also doing a lot of DIPLOID 22 chromosomes x TETRAPLOID 44 chromosomes crosses, certain diploids work will set seed like that because of the presance of reduced gametes, its like adding a whole new gene pool that has never been explored.

"For example, Hannibal Lecter appears to be a self-pollinator, so presumeably you could take it back to carcharodon 'Tiger' or punctatissima rubra if you wanted to, but would those plants have any advantage over the originals? I'm asking, I don't know. Maybe they would, it's just something it's never occurred to me to do if I've got the original species right there."

If no one has tried there is no way to know. You stated you've done some things with Neo smithii, because it has traits you like, back crossing to it should reinforce or bring out those desired traits even more. SHUFFLE THE GENETIC CARDS AGAIN. That is in effect what you are doing with selfed seeds, there will usually be a few plants that will be better than most and occasionally one that is better than the original.

I went and looked at photos on the FCBS like you suggested, and that opened a whole new can of worms. I found Neo. pendula, its just begging to be played with. I just hope they're not sterile. LOL I have complied quite a list of things to seriously consider working with, and just some I want to have.

I have no real interest in working with Aechmeas, but there are a few that will find homes here sooner or later. I've thought for years it probably needs to be split, just by looking at photos.

I have no idea what a Globba is it sounds like something you might find on the bottom of your shoe, so I'll have to go look. That is really cool, you may be starting a new movement for the improvement of Globbas. That is kind of exciting.

Paul you are correct I didnt mean to condem all.... just the "Culls" and everyone here knows what a "cull" is. This is what 'no standards' gets us. Bad photo's and compost material plants registered

HDD you mentioned SHAMROCK, I see there are 2 plants by 2 different hybridizers....which one?

Hendrix, G., (Johnson, C.*) one from Michael's

Bambi, I picked N. carcharodon rubra and Tiger when I first purchased. I like both species. Now I will get giant and rainbow

HDD, does your Shamrock bloom? I've had that thing for years and if it's ever bloomed it must have done so when I wasn't looking. I agree it's a cool little plant, though.

Bambi, Neo. pendula belongs in a distinct subgenus along with eleutheropetala, wurdackii, rosea, myrmecophylla, and several others from the Peruvian upper Amazon region that are all very spiny, hard and stoloniferous. You can cross these with each other easily enough, but they won't cross with the "regular" Neos. I've tried. Again, this is a group that I feel should become a seperate genus. What you can do with them, though, is along the lines of what you were talking about earlier: get one or two of its hybrids and back cross it to pendula. This will give you the smaller, glossier, longer-stoloned traits of pendula with some new colors, like pink, etc. I took it one step of the way but never went any further with it and don't plan to. Michael has several of its hybrids (mostly unnamed). Go for it!

Try using the databases on FCBS to search for hybrids of any particular species or cultivar. If you use the Neoregelia photo database and enter, say, pendula, first as seed parent and then as pollen parent it will pull up thumbnails of all of its named hybrids, or at least all the ones that have pictures posted on FCBS. The cultivar registry database may pull up names of some others, but no pictures. I find this a very useful tool when I see something I like and want to explore the possibilities. Unfortunately there are a number of commonly grown unnamed hybrids and those are not on the site, although a few have been posted. Those are the ones that should be registered, not somebody's culls (in case you're wondering, all the references to registering culls are a dig at the current registrar's practices, which many of us are, shall we say, less than happy about.....)

The FCBS is also set up so that you can click on the names of either parent and see what that looks like too, assuming someone's posted a pic. You can also use the databases to search for all hybrids by a particular breeder, or all cultivars with the word "purple" in the name, or whatever. Great site, I don't know what we ever did without it!

A Globba is a small winter-dormant ginger, and not something you scrape off the bottom of your shoe, but it could definitely use a better name. We refer to them generically as Dancing Girl Gingers, which seems to appeal to people a bit more. I don't want to take this too far off-topic but I am proud of my baby, so I'll just post a picture as a link. The violetty color of the bracts is something not found in any of the species.

Here is a link that might be useful: {{gwi:451822}}

These havent 'recent acquitions' they are almost grown tho.. but the others never did bloom and produced -0- offsets worth having

Another plant I didnt see mentioned which could be a good parent is Neo. Royal Cordovan seems to always pass on its great confirmation to its siblings

Paul mentioned it, HDD.

We've already suggested Pink Sensation and Royal Burgundy, but their offspring, Treasure Chest, is one of my favorites to work with. I'm only mentioning it because I'm in a good mood....... ;-)

TC has color isssues here for me

Thanks HDD! I already had ROYAL CORDOVAN on my list.

Lisa,
I went and googled Globbas, they look like interesting plants, and you have created a BEAUTY! After I looked at the other commonly offered ones which also look like nice plants, I think you are really on to something.

I wonder if I could grow one indoors here, they could spend spring, summer and fall outside like the Broms, and Hibiscus.

Thanks for the tip on TREASURE CHEST,

(in case you're wondering, all the references to registering culls are a dig at the current registrar's practices, which many of us are, shall we say, less than happy about.....)

I'm not sure the registrar can actually eveluate plants, they would have to be able to grow all of them, I think their main job is to avoid having people using inappropriate (obscene, too long, etc) names, or the duplication of names like we have in SHAMROCK and BLACK KNIGHT which confuses people who think they are ordering one then get the other. I believe they just handle the paperwork, and really can't stop anyone from registering anything, unless there is a problem with the name, which would not stop them from registering it under another name.

I have a friend that wanted to name a plant MYTHUNDERSTOOD, but was denied the name because MISS UNDERSTOOD was already preregistered. The judgment was that they sounded too much alike, and it could cause confusion. Not so much in print, but in conversation.

Yes, he can't keep people from registering crap if they want to, so the hybridizer has a responsibility too. In this particular case, though, our current registrar has been digging up culls that the hybridizers themselves didn't consider worthy, and naming them himself. A number of people I've talked to have some pretty strong feelings about that. He also wants you to register the parents used in a cross, if they aren't already named. That makes no sense to me if the reason you're crossing to it is to try and improve it.

As far as name duplication, a lot of the ones on there now are old hybrids that have been grandfathered in, so you just have to go with it. Any new registrations can't have the same name, but how similar it can be is his judgement call.

I first got wind of all this when my friend tried to register a plant she had previously released at one of the conventions. She had checked the registry before selling any, and her name was not used, but in the gap between then and when she submitted it good old Uncle D. decided to register all of Elmore's culls and he used her name on one of them and denied her request. He wants her to change the name, but what about all those people that bought the plant at the convention? As a result it remains unregistered, and it's a much nicer hybrid than the one he chose to name. If Elmore was still alive I'm sure he'd be screaming too! He was not shy about registering and self-promotion so if he thought those plants weren't worthy then they probably weren't. I'm sure he wouldn't want his name attached to a crappy plant any more than you or I would.

Okay, that's my little rant. I'm not knocking Uncle Derek in other respects. He's a very knowledgeable guy, and I always look to what he has to say about species. I just don't think he gets the issue of standards when it comes to hybridization. His philosophy is "If it's worth growing, then it deserves a name". His goal is to eliminate the confusion of unnamed plants, and I can understand that, but if you ask me, this just creates another kind of confusion.

One more note: not everything on FCBS, or even everything listed in the registry has officially been submitted for registration. Check where it says "registered: yes/no". This may account for a lot of the name duplication.

The previous registrar, Don Beadle, did a prodigious amount of work tracking down the parentage and origins of many named and commonly grown but unregistered hybrids. He included them in the registry, which I think is a good thing. The registration process used to be much more daunting than it is now, so a lot of things that should have been registered never got there. Nowadays it's just the opposite. All you have to do is email him a picture along with the name, parents (if you know them) and approximate size and you're in. He'd like more info, like when you made the cross, etc. but doesn't require it.

That makes a difference, now I understand.

Ok I'm on page 450 of the Neos on the FCBS database and I want about 90 plants so far, "study the thumbnails" she says.

rofl.....your doing good then...wait till its up 1000

Hee hee hee....... ;-)

Well, they're not all available so that should help narrow it down. Start looking for common lineage though. If you see something you particularly like, deconstruct it as far back as you can. Don't do it for all 90, or you'll be up all night!

Are you kidding? I still have I don't know how many pages to go through.

I really like the looks of BEDAZZLED, but its probably not available here.

BTW I've already purchased more than 6. They're like potato chips one is just not enough!

If you like Bedazzled you will really like a good Painted Lady without all the oil on her LOL

Is that what that is, I studied that photo for quite awhile.

Oh yes, that's the other thing-- beware of the photos and don't necessarily take them literally, especially if there's only one. It helps if there are several pics of the same plant, then you can kind of take the "average" of all of them, but a) Neos are very "plastic", i.e. will change their appearance radically depending on what conditions they were grown under, b) the exact same specimen can look completely different in a photograph depending on what the light conditions were when you took the picture, so the colors aren't necessarily true, c) water or any reflection on the leaves will create white patches or an ultra-glossy or mottled look which is not part of the plant, and c) photos can be manipulated, either intentionally or not.

I think that's water, not oil, on Bedazzled, but disregard all of that whitish mottling. That's just a photo effect. Golinski's photos seem to be more manipulated than most, so I kind of take them with a grain of salt. I don't know the plant, but looking at the picture I suspect it looks more like Grande or Royal Grande, just in general appearance. Those are big plants, BTW (and so is carcharodon Tiger, I thought you wanted to stay small?). Bedazzled might not be quite as big, since its mother is Painted Lady, but PL is a self-pollinator, so unless the breeder took steps to prevent it there's a good chance its progeny will be F2s and not whatever the cross was meant to be.

I would suggest Painted Delight as a possible alternative, and Michael also has a Painted Delight x Painted Lady, which is a bit bigger, with wider leaves. BTW, that last one is not my cross, despite what the catalog says-- we've straightened that out now.

If you like irregular mottling, get yourself a chlorosticta 'Marble Throat' and play with that. It's a different kind of mottling, but very distinctive. Use the database and check out Marble Throat hybrids.

I was told it was water mixed with a bit of canola for extra shine...I have tried it and it did no harm to the plant...it breaks down and disappates in the sunlight

Really? I would never risk putting any kind of oil on a brom leaf. Some types may be safer than others, but I don't want to find out the hard way.

I actually try to dry my plants off before I photograph them because my camera turns any gloss into a white patch, but I know that Sharon (Petersen) routinely wets hers down, which gives them a super glossy appearance in the pics. We both darken the photos up, which does tend to saturate the colors somewhat. I also do my best to Photoshop out minor imperfections, like insect droppings on the leaf. I try not to misrepresent the appearance if I can help it, but what the camera sees and what the eye sees are not always the same thing. Certain colors I have just been unable to capture correctly. Some of the photos I have on FCBS now are old scanned prints so they look kind of hazy. I've got some more digitals coming soon, which reminds me I need to get on that before somebody snipes all my names!

Yes Lisa get busy. I hope no one snipes my name before the plants are ready. I will cry..LOL

I did say small, BUT, I'll be ordering some I just like.

The only thing I do to my Daylily photos is brighten them if they need it. I shade the flowers with an unbrella, and it gives me the truest colors. I must have shot some purples last summer 50 times to get the right photo. It is amazing how digitals will perceive colors.

Oil and water huh, maybe we'll have the first marbled daylilys here this year. Its a shame its not reall like that, it looks really nice.

canola is the only oil thats safe....no other oils