Susanne: I'm not sure but it will vary from one geographic area to another. I'm sure the folks on the soil forum could give you some good info, though.

Have you tried to see if it's available for free from your county, city, township, etc? Apparently that is the case in a lot of areas, but unfortunately not mine.

Another option is mulch or sheet composting. I mulch all my planting beds every fall with leaves and/or grass clippings and chopped up garden waste. Today I spread the little bit of compost I had left on my front bed, then topped that with about 4 to 6" of leaf mulch. By spring that will most likely have composted in place. That practice has worked very well for me in recent years.

Karen

Try not to buy it. You can get good compost from many places, or make it yourself. I make my own, as well as get it from a local horse farm, along with my mulch.

Susanne: I finally found the thread on the soil forum that I was looking for. It talks about buying truckloads of topsoil, or "loam" or treated soil... You might find this helpful. If not, you should post your specific question on that forum and someone probably will be able to help you. Some there are rather argumentative, but the knowledge is vast...

Karen

Here is a link that might be useful: soil thread

I've read about making my own. The thing is; this a new subdivision and the trees there are very small, so not many leaves. We actually only have one tree in front and none in back! I suppose I could hit up neighbors in the area who have more mature trees and find out if they bag theirs to get rid of! So many of them do. I think I will call the city and find out if they offer it, although I don't believe they do here!

Thanks everyone!
Susanne

Susanne: Follow the soil forum for a while and before you know it they will have convinced you to hoard leaves from your entire state. Compost is wonderful stuff, and free if you make it yourself. You can use other "brown" materials (other than leaves, that is) and it doesn't have to take a lot of work or time. If you garden you have garden waste so you can easily turn that waste into a valuable commodity. If you just throw it into a pile it will eventually rot and be compost. If you actively manage it it works faster and you can make more, but that's not really necessary. It's not rocket science, "compost happens"!

Karen

LOL
I like that "...compost happens!"

I appreciate the help, Karen! Thank you!

The best thing I could have done for my new property was have a truckload of compost delivered. It was about $70 for 3 yards. Best and fastest way to get the good stuff where you need it right away.

Then you can do all the DIY compost activities. But get that stuff down the first year!

For starting anew, I highly recommend buying a truckload (or 2) of compost or manure. If you try to make that much compost on your own, you'll be stressed out abut getting compost faster, and that will make you turn the pile and obsess about it, and that will hurt your back or get you to buy a composter that costs hundreds of dollars. Then then you'll be stressed because you may not work your expensive composter right, and in the meantime your plants will not be happy. I love composting, but it takes awhile! The time to amend the soil is now, not a year after you plant something.

I would go for composted manure over municipal compost, because then I wouldn't have to worry even the slightest bit about anything stupid someone threw in their yard waste bag, or about tomato diseases surviving (I grow a lot of tomatoes). You can read about concerns for using manure, but really, aged composted manure is not going to have much for you to worry about. If I couldn't get manure, I'd use the municipal compost, just maybe not for my tomato bed.

It's probably cheaper to get a truckload delivered, instead of buying a lot of bags, but it does depend on where you are exactly. If you're near horse places, it may be cheap. Where I live, I think it's about $70 for a big truckload, but I don't know how many yards that is. (I get my own). In some ways it's easier to have it all delivered, but if you don't use it all relatively soon, you may find that pile to be in the way.

Good luck with your gardening, and I say go for it with the truckloads of stuff!

gardenscout: EXACTLY! That was the whole point since starting from scratch!

stagerat: Now that you've mentioned that about getting compost from my municipality, I have to agree! Didn't think of that at the time. I think I'll just stick with the commercial stuff to start (and especially for toms). I don't grow a lot of them, but I have high expectations of them, as they are my favorites!

I do plan on starting to compost myself, though. Once I get all the new beds and such pretty much set up, I think I will turn my efforts to that. I really like the idea of using things for nature's intended, so to speak.

I 'did' check out the soil forum as per suggestions.
And I thought us 'seed snatchers' were crazy and obsessed!
Ha!
I spent an hour or so reading posts in the soil forum and they had me cracking up, shaking my head, and rolling my eyes...funny!

Hi,

I just ordered a truckload of composted cow manure. It was $35. a yard with a 5yd minimum and a $30. delivery charge.

I have been collecting as much organic matter as it was possible for our family to do..which wasn't a lot and making passive compost for years and well I just decided I was never going to have enough of it at this rate. I have some areas of the garden where the soil is great but a lot of challenging conditions under maple tree canopies that really need a lot more enrichment than I can manage. So I am biting the bullet for this year. I feel like it will be a good investment. I went with a company that was highly recommended in my area.

pm2

pm2: NOBODY ever has enough compost!

Still, so much organic matter is just sent to the landfills and wasted. As gardeners we all have organic waste, so we might as well use it for a good purpose. Sadly, though my 2 bins are filled over and over so many times a year, the amount shrinks to so little.

I had done rather passive composting for years, probably 15 years, in one little bin. In recent years I've added another bin, and have one for active compost and one for maturing or curing stuff. It works great, I do usually flip it every week or two from early spring through fall, and it works much better and faster. I love my compost!

I don't do anything with it in winter- I hate to be cold. After I add the pumpkins in fall I just let it sit and cure until spring.

Susanne: About the soil forum, some of those folks truly are compost wackos, and proud of it! I'm not being mean, they refer to themselves as wackos. (I'm sure that my neighbors, whose yard waste I take to compost, call me the same). But collectively they do have a lot of good, helpful information to share and are generally happy to help you get started. Though I have composted for so many years I have really learned a lot there.

Karen

Ummmm....If composted steer manure is $35/cubic yard in your area plus a delivery fee as in PM2's location, you may want to try Home Depot if you have one close. Their composted steer blend (also aged crumbly wood chips mixed in) has been so well composted it's odor free and at $1.00 cubic foot bag it comes to $27/cubic yard. No weed seeds that I've noticed. Homemade is great, but I don't have room to make all the compost I need so I supplement with purchased.

40 bags stacked in the driveway looks a little silly, but I'm not big and I can handle them, cut open and dump them where I need compost - no shoveling.

If you don't have a truck, borrow a friend with a truck, buy them breakfast!

The local mulch place had a special on composted leaves. $6.00 a yard with free delivery w/in 15 miles for over 10 yards. Got 30 yards...so $180 plus 6% tax.

The suggestion about buying some to start and then making your own to sustain your gardens is what I would go for and actually did 6 years ago. I bought just enough municipal compost to get me going at our new home, and then I started scavenging what I required to keep going. I prefer the municipal compost to start since it has all kinds of different organics in it and not just poop and straw/hay or feed.

At this point I make enough compost for the gardens and sometimes have too much goodies accumulated. My main ingredients are wet used coffee grounds from my place of work (l00 lbs per day whenever I want), seaweed from my neighbours' beaches, leaves which I accumulate at this time of year mostly on the way home since the Atlantic winds blow most of mine in the bay and the ocean, and grass clippings from a fellow on the way home who has a huge lawn and has yet to realize the value of what he places to the curb from May to November. Such items, mixed, watered, and piled about 3 feet high at this time of year will yield GORGEOUS stuff in the spring.

This stuff and other stuff can all be free if you
- don't go out of your way (burn gas) to pick them up
- aren't scared to ask folks for stuff they may obviously not use
- always keep a lookout for possibilities.
In essence it's the cheapest because it is free. Right now, in the last week, I've accumulated over 75 bags of shredded leaves and grass clippings, two cartloads of seaweed left on the beaches by the tides of the full moon last week, and 250lbs of wet UCGs. I've spotted a few pumpkins on the way home I'd like to have, so tomorrow I'll be stopping to ask if I can have them. You can bet your booties I'll be pulling in the driveway with a full car of pumpkins tomorrow night!! :O)

Like several of them are saying on here you might want to check with the compost forum and see how you would stack leaves and compost. It's a shame to let all those leaves go to waste and someone on the forum should be able to tell you how to stack everything so that you get a good decomposition over the winter. I would think that you could chop the leaves up with your lawnmower and then dump the compost on top of them. You might want to check with your work too because I've been getting a lot of shredded paper from my job. It beats them throwing it in the trash and the worms love it so I plan on using this as my bottom layer this winter along with chopped up grass and plants on top of that and then I'll top the whole thing with some chopped up leaves.

Best of luck with whatever you do.

Strouper

I can come up with plenty of paper and coffee grounds. Some tea bags. My problem is coming up with the greens! Now that you mention the pumpkins, I know I can get a lot of those! The only way I can get leaves for the most part, is to go and gather them from another neighborhood. Like I said there just aren't enough mature trees around here, yet!

Susanne: All certifiable compost wacko go and gather leaves from their neighbors. I have gotten one lawn bag full from one neighbor so far this year, the first of many I hope. He told me during trick-or-treat last night that he has another large garbage can full- I promised to come and get them within a day or two. He's always a great source because he has quite a few large trees.

I also went to groups of neighbors gathering in driveways during trick or treat and told them leaf season is here- don't trash them, give them to me. I find most folks delighted to donate them, alas, they have no clue what a valuable resource they're wasting. All the better for me. All of my beds get mulched with fall leaves every year and I save the rest for next year's compost.

And I'm not at all above stopping and picking up bagged leaves at stranger's homes. Best time to drive around and do this is the night befor trash pick up in the neighborhood.

If you hoard lots of leaves now, greens become plentiful in summer. Grass clippings are my favorite. And I always have weeds, deadheaded flowers, etc. Most folks add green kitchen waste and coffee grounds. Some use manure. There are many possibilities.

Karen

DANG! Why didn't I think of that!

"I also went to groups of neighbors gathering in driveways during trick or treat and told them leaf season is here- don't trash them, give them to me."

I have been going around asking for pumpkins! Thing I'll hit my old neighborhood up on Sunday. They all have huge maple trees--and lots of them! I read somewhere that maple leaves are great. And that neighborhood isn't too far away.

Ooh! Ooh! Just thought of something! One of my best friends works the street department in that city and he has a pickup. I'd be willing to bet that I could promise him some homemade pies in exchange for picking up truck loads of leaves for me! (His wife doesn't cook and I was a baker for 20 years!) ;)

Just remembered there is a Starbucks on the way to work...and...and...uh oh!

I have a Hyundai Elantra. But so far, I've made due.
I have a roll of thick plastic sheeting that I unwrap enough to cover my seats and the trunk when I haul stuff. Hopefully, by spring I'll be in a position to trade for another pickup. Lord! I miss my pickup!

I was actually thinking of printing up some el'cheapo flyers and have the gazillion kids on my street rubberband these to doorknobs or hand out to neighbors.

Figured I could give my address out and tell them to drop off any bags of leaves that they want to get rid of!

Does this sound stupid???

No, not stupid. Worth a try once to see if you get any response. Or, you could include your phone # for them to call you for pickup.

Karen

Gawdinfever, you wrote:

"I can come up with plenty of paper and coffee grounds. Some tea bags. My problem is coming up with the greens!"

But coffee grounds are "greens." Even though they're brown, they're like grass clippings, the hot stuff, and are what you'd mix with paper or fall leaves. So, you're already doing better than you thought! (Do you have a LOT of them?)

I'd feel fine using municipal compost in flower beds, I'm just paranoid about those precious tomatoes!

I think with that plastic you use, you can keep your vehicle nice while still picking up good composting materials.

Oh, and did you know you have a Florrisant Freecycle group? You can request compost materials there:

http://www.freecycle.org/group/US/Missouri/Florissant

and you can use the St Louis Craiglist, too:
http://stlouis.craigslist.org/

I'd post the request in the "For Sale" section in "Farm and Garden," "Wanted," or in "Free" (which is supposed to be offers, but people put requests there sometimes, too)

I was going to chime in and tell you used coffee grounds (UCGs) are greens, but Stage Rat beat me to it! The UCGs are what keeps my composts active in the winter. The inside heat of the composts never goes below 100F, even on days when the outside temps are slightly below -10F and it's all due to UCGs.

Cars are great for pick-up too. In my 10 year old Saturn, I can stuff 12 huge orange bags of leaves or 20 small bags. Whatever works! :O)

I did not know that (coffee grounds = greens)!
Yes! I can get a lot of those! Coffee shops/Donut shops abound around here, and a good friend of mine works at one!

Stagerat: I've already had one post from a lady near me on Craigslist. She doesn't have leaf pickup and has them all bagged! JACKPOT! lol
tiffy: that's nice to know about how much I can fit and about the temps. I don't really have a bin or container yet. Haven't decided to build one or buy one. Probably build one for now. Thinking about the three compartment type.

Hi Susanne,

I've sent you a couple of e-mails regarding our trade back in September? Looks like they are not going through as I have not heard back from you. Hopefully you get this message here and I hear from you soon, let me know, Thanks :)

Maria