Gee, I hope he comes out of his shell a bit further than that. Still, that's more than he's ever done for me!

Gonzer, would you send a pic to FCBS for me? Anything you send will be better than what's on there now.

Nice.

Hey if he starts spitting out pups now I call dibs!

Darth will more than likely make pitbulls!!!

Pups? Luke and Leia!!

Sander

Well, you can't name the pups but Luke and Leia would be good names for any offspring it makes. It doesn't look like I'm going to be the one to make them, though. Gonzer, anyone else blooming? Come on, you know you want to try it.......

Just for comparison, the link shows Darth's mo-thuh.

Here is a link that might be useful: {{gwi:464921}}

I've got that big amoena 'Rubra'(?) that we discussed awhile back blooming. Tell me the steps Lisa and I'll try it.
Dibs? Like in "tap tap, dibs dibs"? No way! This baby's on it's way to e-bay, haven't decided on a catchy name though...Bill. 'Flashback'?

{{gwi:464931}}

It will never sell the foliage is not flashy enough.

That must be Bill. Banana Triangles, gonzer.

Pollinating Bills is soooooo easy! 9:00-10:00 AM is about the best time to do it. If the stamens are not too close to the stigma you won't even have to remove them, just brush the stamens (the yellow parts) from the daddy across mommy's stigma (the white part in the middle) until it's covered with pollen (young children may be asked to leave the room at this point), then make a little tag with the name of the pollen donor on it and wire it around the base of the flower. Voila!

Gonzer, my 'La Noche' is flowering at about the same pace as your DV. Maybe we should exchange some pollen. Not sure if it can be arranged in time. Those bills go fast. I took this picture today.

{{gwi:464934}}

Aren't you in Florida, WL? Sure, just put that pollen in a freezer pack and overnight-courrier it to California. That'll only cost you about $100 or so....

I thought that the pollen would keep for a few days without freezing.

"I had no problems last year inside collecting pollen, drying the pollen and using the pollen 5 to 14 days old without freezing. It may not be necessary to freeze except for long term storage."

Methinks the partner I picked out will do OK. The B. 'Seaborn's' amoena rubra pictured which was debated about moons ago. Has/had anyone ever had experience with Bill Seaborn back in the 70's? The one flowering was cut back last year and doesn't have it's full contingent of spots yet like the bottom plant.

{{gwi:464937}}

{{gwi:464940}}

Gonzer, just change the name to amoena v. viridis and I won't have to come over there and thrash you with it!

I'm not sure who you're quoting, WL, but I always at least refrigerate it if I'm not using it right then. It might be okay, but it seems hardly worth the effort.

Here is a link that might be useful: {{gwi:464925}}

Yeah, I'll just do a few bigeneric crosses. I don't have much of a Bill collection and have no other bills with pollen. The last begeneric bill crosses that I did are up and should prove of some interest (to me). In my opinion, the brom world doesn't need me to make more Star Wars billbergias.

Consider it done Lisa. No more dead horses.

Is DV finished blooming?

{{gwi:464943}}

{{gwi:464946}}

Well dang! That's kinda different from how it started out, isn't it? Nice satiny petals but the bracts don't last long, I see.

On Sunday I asked my 9 year old daughter if she wanted to help me pollinate the bromeliads and she said "Dad, the bees do that". I was hoping I would appear clever by cross pollinating and she put me in my place.

Only 2 days of flowering!

{{gwi:464948}}

The one on the left is a good close-up of the floral parts in question, WL. If you have two varieties blooming just take some tweezers and grab one of those powdery yellow jobbies from one of them and rub it all over that long spirally white doo-dah of the other. Bingo! So easy even a bee could do it!

Bees, however, don't know how to choose good parents and they're even worse at culling the uglies, so there are still some advantages to being a human..... assuming we use them, that is.

Thanks, Lisa, I had a record cross pollination day on Saturday, Bills are easy. Timing seems to be everying with Bills. I get it, but my daughter doesn't. I'll cut her some slack: at least she associated bees with pollen even though the screened in atrium hasn't seen a bee in 10 years. I guess I'll get to see what worked in 6 weeks. I did a self pollination too, just for control.

BTW, I put La Noche pollen all over my Blushing Tiger gynoecium. If it takes and looks decent, it could be Night Tiger?

Okay, WL, you're officially off the deep end!

I'd say the chances of it both taking AND looking decent are about one in ten bazillion, but go ahead and have your fun. Just don't mention my name as having had anything to do with it..... ;-)

Lisa, here is my question: I take two good (appropriate, I mean that have already produced interesting plants) parents and cross them. Now, how many children I have to rise to get something that is at least a bit interesting and how many will look simply bad?

Tomas

"doo-dah"? So that's the name of that thingy.

Tomas, there is no easy answer to that question, it will vary quite a bit. If you start with two species your results will be more uniform, with only minor variations. If the parents complement each other well, by which I mean each one providing at least one desirable trait that the other lacks, then it is possible that the entire grex will be at least somewhat attractive, although I always try to choose the few best ones and discard the rest.

If you choose complex hybrids as parents, the possible combinations are much more varied and unpredictable, and the likelihood is that most of them will be ugly. You do improve your odds by choosing parents that have made nice-looking hybrids in the past, but that is still no guarantee that they will combine well with each other.

If you have a specific goal in mind it helps to know if the traits you want to combine are dominant or recessive. This is something that only experience will teach you, but studying the photos in the registry will give you a lot of clues too. If you see the same characteristics over and over on many of the hybrids of a particular parent, the chances are it's a dominant trait, and one berry full of seeds may be all you need. On the other hand, if you have determined that one or more characteristics you want to achieve are recessive traits, then you will have to do the same cross many more times in order to get a large population of seedlings in the hope that at least one of them will give you what you're looking for.

Generally speaking, I'm lucky if I get 1% that is worth saving, but some combinations work better than others. It also varies from genus to genus, and of course it depends on how high your standards are. Working with Dyckias, for example, I got very few "bad" ones, if all you want is a nice little spiny plant. Cryptanthus also produce a fairly high percentage that are at least reasonably interesting, as do the foliage Vrieseas. Billbergias, maybe 5-10% overall, and Neos are the lowest of all at less than 1%, but again it depends on which parents you choose and what it is that you're looking for. Even with the Neos there are some very predictable crosses you can make where 99% of them will be reasonably attractive but not particularly new or different.

Cool 1%!!!
That makes them outlaw biker broms.

Check the link.

Sander

Here is a link that might be useful: Explanation about one percenters

Lisa, it is very clear now, thank you. Staying on topic, and considering the Gonzer's cross, there is a probability 5-10% will have some nice dark color, but the rest, will it be just green, or some shade of brownish red anyway?
Tomas

There's only one way to find out, Tomas!

Frankly, if I had a choice of parents I wouldn't use the amoena v. viridis. For me there's not really much there to enhance or add to Darth's strong points, it seems more likely to just dilute them. It's a good way to practice and learn, though. I would be surprised if any of them came out as black as DV, but it's possible, or Gonzer might get lucky and have some nice dark red offspring with prominent silver bands. Some will probably have white spots, others not.

Now, if WL's La Noche had been the pollen donor the chances of getting beautiful black babies would have been greatly increased. They probably wouldn't all have been dark, though. I would still expect some greenish vaguely-colored ones in the mix, but it's a much safer, more predictable cross, if darkness is what you're going for. It also is unlikely to give you any surprises, and surprises are what makes it fun!

Well, Lisa mine is a pure theorical question, I have no reliable parents to choose from nor any idea where and how to get them.

I am just trying to cross what I have, some Aechmeas like comata, recurvata, racinae and victoriana.

Tomas

Do we need any more Neo cultivars? I think a few thousand is enough. I won't be buying too many more. I've got all the major types of Neo cultivars and any more is just more of the same. Sure you may be able to tell all the pink neo's apart, but honestly, 5 or 10 different pink neo's satisfies my desires.

I am crossing some neo's, but it's all for experience and fun. I don't need them, I probably won't even want to keep them. I don't even want to keep half of the broms I have now, but I have mostly singletons at this point and it will take a few years to build up the collection of broms that I have that I really like and can use in the landscape.

Someday we'll have to do the 50 Broms the tropical home owner "must" have list.

Spoken like a man with no vision..... ;-)

I'll concede that we probably don't need more of the same, but there is still a lot of unexplored territory out there, and that's what keeps me going. I have several specific goals I want to achieve with the Neos that to my knowledge haven't been done yet. Once I do I can hang it up with no regrets.

Besides, just when you think it's all been done, some new species comes along (like carcharodon Tiger) and changes everything. People probably thought they'd seen all the possible permutations on reds and pinks before Mulford Foster created Blushing Bride, which led to all of the Groves hybrids and raised the bar on what could be achieved with color. Same thing happened when Chester Skotak, Bob Larnach and others figured out how to breed for variegation, which 30 years ago was thought to be just a random fluke and not reproduceable. Now everyone's doing it! What's next? I'm sure it will be something. We're nowhere near the end of the road yet!

I'm not suggesting that you stop, I'm just saying that if you have a modest sized collection, and I do, you can't have them all. If you produce 100 more cool plants then that just means there are 100 more plants I won't be getting. I don't mind hearing about them and looking at pictures and saying, "that's cool" so keep at it.

Just because something is registered doesn't mean it's available. There are crazy plant horders here in Florida. They actually try and corner the market on hot new plants. Who wants to compete with that unless you're a plant broker.

It can take many years before something is in wide enough distribution that I can get it with out too much pain. For me it's usually not worth the bother. By the time I can get it at a plant sale, it's old news and the snobs snicker. I'd almost rather make my own crumby cultivars just for myself rather than compete with the ravenous plant collectors. That said, there are still 50 or so plants I think I want and about 25 plants I'm going to get rid of. No hurry.

"If you produce 100 more cool plants then that just means there are 100 more plants I won't be getting. I don't mind hearing about them and looking at pictures and saying, "that's cool" so keep at it."

Well, that's a relief! Glad I don't have to stop......... ;-p

Hi All

The are some interesting post here.....

A bi-generic I did with a Billbergia and a Neo is growing nice and quickly. I am unsure of the Billbergia and perhaps I need to pop a pic on the board sometime. The Neo was goldfever. I had 3 fat, juicy berries and go a hole 7 seeds out of them all together. I then managed to drop the container and I had only one seed to grow the rest fell into the grass and are gone forever....anyway.

WL: there are way too many pretty Neos and Bills to ever try and collect them all. I also agree that certain plant collectors like to horde plants for years and then "unleash" them on us collectors. Problem is, these days you can just order your own from Mikes!

CHeers

Dennis

neomea, I'm not going to start the Michael's habit or the ebay thing. That's just too dangerous.

BTW, I dropped a container of Neo Concentrica seedlings and managed to recover 12 and then I accidentally flooded them for a few days when I forgot about the hole in the top cover and left them out in the rain. Those things are pretty tough as I still have 6 of them.