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Finding caterpillars other than monarch.

18 years ago

Butterfly season is just starting here after a long delay.

I have always raised monarch caterpillars. Just monarch caterpillars. They are easy to find and bold because of their chemical protection. Butterflies are nowhere near as abundant here where I live than where most of you are because of the replacement of the native prairie with farms and with the meadows invaded by smooth brome.

I want to raise other species but...

Where do you people FIND the darn things?! Sulphers and melissa blue are by far the most common butterflies where I live, feeding on alfalfa. I have alfalfa. I have asters. I have cassia. I have some butterflies.

I have never, EVER seen another species caterpillars. And I have looked. Hard. Whats the trick? What am I missing?

Comments (19)

  • 18 years ago

    If I were you I'd start looking on that clover, fledgeling. Look for chewed leaves, most likely the tender new growth on the ends of the clover, and frass/caterpillar poop. Frass can be tiny brown or black specks or bigger if it comes from big cats. Since melissa blues and sulphurs aren't big, I'd look for little specks.
    Good luck! I hope you find some!
    Sherry

  • 18 years ago

    The trick is to first have lots of host plants close to your house. Then when you see a butterfly looking for a host plant, you just watch them and sooner or later they will lay the eggs.

    Find out what other butterflies are in your area and make sure you have host plants for them.

    Watching them lay the eggs is a whole lot easier than trying to find the eggs later on.

  • 18 years ago

    Fledgling, I certainly understand your frustration. My first few years of butterflying yielded few, if any, butterflies. Then I joined this forum, learned about host plants, began to slowly fill my garden each year with them, and voila! I started seeing them begin to trickle in as I provided the food for their eggs/caterpillars. It is nothing that happened overnight for me; but as the adage goes, if you plant it, they will come.

    Take heart, be determined, and you will eventually get results!

    I have attached a link to the website Butterflies and Moths, specically noted for South Dakota. When you click on a butterfly genus/species, be sure to check the map to see if that butterfly is present in your area. Sometimes they may be in the SE corner only, or the NW corner only of your state. And always be on the lookout for some that may wander into your area despite what the map says.

    Susan

    Here is a link that might be useful: Butterflies of South Dakota

  • 18 years ago

    I teach my Kindergartners to look for 'chew marks' on the leaves. Butterfly chew marks (or, more appropriately, caterpillar) are not the same as grasshopper and snail. The pattern is different. Look for circles.

    These are just 'general' rules:
    Small circles=early instars so look around that leaf and on the leaves near it (usually the caterpillar will no longer be on THAT leaf but on one nearby).

    Look for frass (poop) on leaves:
    Little black specks/spheres on top of leaves (or on the ground) may indicate a caterpillar! If you see little specks then look around the the leaves on that plant. Chances are, there's a hungry caterpillar nearby.

    Just a couple of super simple thoughts to think about that may help! :)

    from a Kindergarten teacher,
    CalSherry

  • 18 years ago

    Fledgling -

    Some thoughts to expand on what has already been said and maybe add some new ones that hopefully will helpÂ

    Looking for the ovum or larvae of a Medicago feeder in a quarter section of Medicago would be, well, a huge futile effort mostly. But it is not impossible. With lots of time and patience just observing the habits of adults it is possible to learn where to better look, even within that quarter section. While it many be true that butterflies fly where they fly in what seems like all over the place, most species do fly in specific travel lanes that you can learn to recognize, especially males on patrol and females looking to oviposit eggs. Figuring out what designates a travel lane might take some time, but it can be done and it can be fun especially since the lanes may change over time, or even from day to day due to any of several factors. They will probably be following a border of some kind  plant, ditch, elevation, wind current, ambient temperature or humidity or something as simple as a shadow line as well as many other possibilities. And these lanes probably will not be in a straight line except when being followed to cover ground looking for new suitable habitats. Also learning to recognize the fairly exact requirements a female seeks for her eggs in those lanes can often steer you to only look in what will maybe be the most productive areas in a group of plants or even on an individual plant. The newest and freshest growth, a branch that hangs just right that will be easy for her to land, deposit and take off from, with some species a plant that has no other eggs or larva on it and the list goes on and on depending on which species.

    In planted home gardens the task of finding livestock becomes much easier, and the easiest when no one family of larval food plants are in large tracts together. IOW, if a female only has one plant or a smaller grouping of plants to lay on she will use it/them when she finds them. If you have enough available property, several groupings spaced in different areas on your property can also up your success at attracting females. Same would apply to nectaring plants as well.

    After that some idea of where the females of a particular species normally lays eggs on a leaf or plant to find eggs and looking for plant material that has been fed on, frass, leaves that are curled unnaturally (whether tied together by silk or not) will get you right to the livestock, or at least on the same playing field of those larva that move to a different part of the plant or off the plant between feedings.

    FWIW, in some species finding either egg or larva can be hard even for those with long experience. So donÂt give up, have fun while learning and sooner or later you will be rewarded  which usually signifies the need for a loud war hoop on your part.

    Larry

  • 18 years ago

    War Hoop!!

    Today I found my first Cloudless Sulphur (Phoebis sennae) cats on the Partridge Pea. They are so tiny that they blend in with the leaves. I examined the plants for the signs that Tdogmom mentioned, and there they were. I still can't find the eggs, though. From a distance, I saw the female lay the eggs, but I don't know where on the plant to look and what to look for. I googled Cloudless Sulphur egg images--and none came up. Judy Burris does not have any in her book. If anyone has pictures of eggs, I'd like to see them. But, anyway, I'm happy with my CS babies!

    Fledgling, the book, THE LIFE CYCLES OF BUTTERFLIES, by Judy Burris and Wayne Richards is a great source for what eggs and caterpillars look like for the most common butterflies. It also has so much info on host and nectar plants. If you don't have this book, I recommend it.

    Ladobe,

    I have places that I like to go to look for BFs. I've learned that there are certain areas where they are most likely to be. It's a challenge to try to think like a "BF!"

    Also, FAOR is the abbreviation we (okleps) use when recording sightings! Glad you liked it.

    Sandy

  • 18 years ago

    Sandy, they look like tiny little or white to yellowish pointed hats to me, kinda like "dunce hats"?

    They lay mostly on the top of the leaf, too.

    Woo-hoo! Have fun!

    Susan

  • 18 years ago

    Sandy, cloudless sulphur eggs look something like tiny little record player needles, if you can remember what they looked like, but they're white when they're first laid, turning yellow the next day, and sort of brown the day they hatch.
    Here's an old picture I made of some cloudless sulphur eggs -
    {{gwi:466848}}
    And here's a picture of some sleepy orange eggs, which look just like them -
    {{gwi:453394}}
    Sherry

  • 18 years ago

    Sandy... One of the times I was out enjoying my wild critters on the patio today I thought I might of heard something along the lines of a whispered war cry soemwhere easterly of me. Great find, and great lungs. ;-)

    FWIW most species included within a taxonomic group or family will have similar characteristics in all forms. With Pieridae the eggs shape can vary by family some, can be anything from stark white, shades of green or yellow all the way to deep orange, and as was suggested with many species will change color either 2-3-4 times while still an egg.

    Another tidbit I should have included in the prior post about 'where they lay' (because unlike most of you, most of my lep work was done right in the wild and lab reared livestock was done with wild cuttings in my controlled habitat cages). Once you establish certain places found to be used by females depositing eggs in their 'flight lanes', those exact same places (or close to them) will be used over and over again by later broods for years as long as outside influences don't change the basic characteristics of those places. Idem: I had many, many hundreds of wild collecting spots that when I returned to them over the years for more of the livestock of a particular species for some research project, I almost always found what I was looking for on the same branches on the same plants at roughly the same time of the season. Amazingly those spots are not forgotten and are actually easy to find again even without field notes (at least to those of us smitten with Lepidoptera). Not sure if that is because of the thrill of finding them there the very first time, or something involuntarily forced from your brain when the desire to find more takes you back to those same places that you KNOW will have what you are looking for. Weird huh?

  • 18 years ago

    Here's another tidbit...

    IF you have a particular butterfly that happens to be ovipositing in your yard on a regular basis (let's just say, she seems to like your host plants!) then she may just be a creature of habit. If you find eggs on the plants in a certain area (and you've taken them off those plants) then go BACK to that area again. Chances are quite HIGH that she's gone back to that area to oviposit!

    Having raised many butterflies from having collected eggs in my own yard, I've noticed this pattern over and over and over again. It is most interesting to me that a butterfly will oviposit in the same region repeatedly.

    The same pattern also occurs with WHERE on the plant a butterfly likes to oviposit.

    For example, usually, a Gulf Fritillary (Agraulis vanillae) will oviposit on the tops of Passiflora leaves or on the little tendrils, right? WELL, I've had certain mamas that have had this habit of ovipositing ONLY on the undersides of flower blossoms! So, this gets me checking the blossoms. It's all just happenstance, of course...and if I happen to spot an egg in some weird locale, then I just start looking in areas like that for others.

    I've learned, over the years, that butterflies are much like humans and particularly like young children. Each is MOST unique and will do things in their OWN way and in their OWN time. So, expect the unexpected. And, drink a lot of wine. tee-hee! They will drive you nuts.

  • 18 years ago

    Sherry, the GFs will oviposit almost anywhere close to the plant, too. I have had had eggs on the trellis, other plants, a plant tie, on the stems of passiflora, anywhere convenient, especially if I have several females in the yard. It's like a frantic game of who can deposit the most eggs in 5 minutes or something.

    I do find that true, Larry, of the butterflies returning to the same spots to oviposit year to year. Of course, that depends on whether we have the the same genus returning to our area. This year has been very slow for us due to the cold north wind currents. I see that the wind direction is going to change this week to southerly winds, so hopefully we will begin to see more than just one here and one there.

    Susan

  • 18 years ago

    True! I've just noticed that some are just 'creatures of habit' and have a tendency to like a particularly part of a plant.

    I've had Monarchs that would ALWAYS oviposit in this one section of this one Milkweed patch (I have several Milkweed patches) and on only certain plants. So, it was really easy to go and collect eggs. Then, there was a Monarch mama who only liked the teeniest, tiniest seedlings (this one drove me insane!) which meant IF it was a small plant, chances were good she'd have oviposited on it (oh yeah). Nary an egg would be found on any other plant when that mama was around!

    Same thing with other species...

    Then, there's those goofy ones who, like Susanlynne says, will oviposit ANYWHERE...posts, plantpicks, flowers, other plants, etc. as long as they were close to the host plant!

  • 18 years ago

    Thanks to everyone of you for all the information. That's what makes this a wonderful forum. People are so willing to share their expertise.

    Another War Whoop! I found 2 teeny tiny American Lady (Vanessa virginiensis) cats in nests on my cudweed and pussytoes yesterday afternoon. These little cats were totally nude--no hair yet! I didn't know that they started out this way. So--I learned several new things yesterday. Who said you can't teach an old dog new tricks? ;-)

    Fledgling, I envy you as you are still young and getting started. I wish you many happy BF hunting days.

    Sandy

  • 18 years ago

    Sandy, I'm scared to do much looking on the cudweed yet. But the tips of several leaves are "sewn" together. I hope nothing gets them because the cudweed doesn't last very long as a cut leaves.

    I have the one AL chrysalis, and still 4 HE chrysalis's.

    Susan

  • 18 years ago

    I went out and checked the Partridge Pea for CS eggs. They are everywhere! I didn't realize those little pointy things were eggs! Duh. Kind of remind me of dunce caps or those pointy headed characters on SNL, I think they were called "cone heads."

    Sandy

  • 18 years ago

    Thanks everyone! I really do need to get to know the earlier life-stages better, and play closer attention. Butterflies rarely wander into my area this time of year, but I will keep a close watch on their behaviors. Thanks again.

  • 18 years ago

    Sandy, I've found that only about 5% of those eggs will either a) hatch or b) get eaten. A lot of them are infertile eggs as well.

    I never get as many hatchlings as it appears I might from the # of eggs. I already had to schmoo a spined soldier bug that was lurking in my Senna hebecarpa.

    Susan

  • 18 years ago

    Susan,

    Very interesting! I'll see what happens here. So far I haven't seen the soldier bug around. I do, however, have lots of red wasps. I have so much Partridge Pea as it reseeded everywhere. I've been pulling it up, so now I'm checking for eggs and cats before I yank.

    Sandy

  • 18 years ago

    Well, I spoke too soon! There was a very large Cloudless Sulphur in the yard today flying back and forth and back and forth. I kept thinking, why is that butterfly hanging around so long. My Senna hebecarpa is only up about 1' now - very late this year. I checked it, and yep, there are lots of eggs now.

    I do think there is something to the fact that they seem to return to the areas where they have found host plants available in the past.

    Susan