First off- let me say Welcome to the wonderful world of WinterSowing! If your experience is anything like mine- your gardening world will be changed and enhanced forever!

I have always tried to plant under-story type trees and shrubs to replace the buckthorn I keep removing from my over-sized city lot. I didn't have much 'luck' till I started WinterSowing. When I "helped" mother nature do her thing by WinterSowing, my 'luck' changed forever!

I find wintersowing to be the best way to start trees (and shrubs) from seed! Most of what I have started usually will germinate in the first year- some starting in spring- others waiting till mid summer to show them selves- and a couple have actually needed two years to break dormancy and germinate. I give up and start over after 2 years.

When I sow them- I really do not know how long they will take to show up- so I always sow shrub and tree seeds into very sturdy containers- thick plastic peanut butter jars- or the larger plastic jars of nuts from places like costco. I drill holes in the bottom for drainage- and then drill holes at the top of the sides for transpiration and leave the lids on till the green growth shows up tall and proud. These sturdy conatiners will not degrade if 2 years are needed to germinate- they will stand up to uv- freezes and warm sun. Keeping the lids on continues a "green house" effect that keeps enough moisture in the soil so I do not have to constantly monitor them, and keeps excess moisture from storms and pests such as slugs and squirrels away.

I put in the dirt- and moisten it well- check the drainage- and put in more seeds than you would think right under any other type of germination method- put on the lid- and march out into the snow to leave ol' mom nature and the WinterSow way to do it's thing!

I keep these containers directly out doors- on the ground- usually in an area where they will get some dappled sunlight- and not be covered up by other vegetation in the growing season. I have "misplaced" a few by placing into the hosta bed in winter, and been pleasantly surprised come late fall when the leaves die back.

It really is that easy!

It is a very fun, reliable and rewarding way to start many new shrubs and trees!

One word of caution though- I have found that the critters in winter ALWAYS eat the new shrub tree additions to my yard. I have learned the hard way- to be sure to place wire hardware cloth cages around the new additions for the first few years to keep the hungry ones away from my new treasures.

Have FUN growing your new trees the wintersow way!

Julie

Thank you Julie for the welcome, an excellent response and very helpful. I like your idea about putting the holes in the top sides instead of the lids. Could you give me an idea as to the size of the holes for both the bottom drainage and the side air transpiration.

I am using 32 oz wide mouth bottles for flats. I am cutting them about 3 1/2 inches from the top about 7/8s of the way around, I leave about an inch to act as a hinge. After inserting the soil and sowing the seed I tape with red Tuck construction tape around the circumference to seal the sides. This tape is very weatherproof I use it to seal the insulation on my beehives.I then drill small holes in the cap by putting a thick sewing needle in my drill and pushing the needle into the cap (about a dozen uniform holes)

Do you cut your bottles or do you just put the soil and seeds in through the top. If this is so, what do you do once the seeds germinate.

One last question, I know you leave your flats out in the snow and the insulating factor makes it more natural but what do you think of putting my flats in a cold greenhouse. I read that the fluctuating temperatures inside a cold greenhouse helps to breakdown the hard seed coat faster. I am going to try both with the same seed to see what happens but I would appreciate your comments. Thanks again

Julie, that's great information!

I have had great luck too with WS of shrubs and trees. Some of my faves are roses and crepe myrtles. When you gather seeds from a hybrid flowering tree or shrub you may see some differences in color of the flower or shape of the leaf, but it is mostly subtle and you certainly do not get a plant that is lacking aesthetics--what grows and flowers you will like. As an example I have a Rosa rugosa that was germinated from seeds parented from a hybrid growing outside the Coney Island Aquarium. It took two years before I saw a flower, and it's takes three years for the plant to grow to shrub size and bloom well. It's fourth year of bloom is next season and it's grown so well I expect it to be knock-out eye candy. From what I can tell I see little if any difference between the parent shrub and the shrub grown from its seed.

Trees and shrubs can take several years to grow to a mature height, but I think the wait is worth it. I've got here a Red Cedar grown from seed ten years back that is now coming into a majestic stature--it is as tall as my house and has provided nesting for doves for the past few years. This is what we want--our shrubs and trees should be appealing to our eyes, but to wildlife they provide habitat.

When you choose to germinate shrubs and trees you should make the time to visit a local arboretum or natural habitat to see what is thriving without human intervention. It is these plants which will grow well for you and be low maintenance too. Personally, I don't want plants that are water hogs or need wrapping with burlap to survive the winter--yucchh--that's work and expense I don't need.

You should expect some problems when you WS hard-shell nut seeds, including acorns. A starving squirrel is going to find those nuts and dig them up. They are rodents, they think and can figure out simple tasks like prying off lids. When you sow nut seeds you should take precaution and attach screening to the top of your container. It's easy to staple screening to the top of a wooden half-barrel, window screening can be bent with your hands and duct-taped to a plastic container. Both of these screening will deter a starving squirrel from getting your nuts.

T

Here is a link that might be useful: Observing the Natural Environment

So do you crack the nuts before planting or just plant whole? Don't you have to have a male and female tree to get fruit (nuts)?

Thanks Trudi for your input.

Your comment about the squirrels is the reason I am asking questions about WSing in my greenhouse. I have had squirrels eat through a 5 gallon plastic pail to get at my bird seed. I now use a metal pail. My greenhouse is not 100% critter proof but a lot better than the outside.

While I have your interest Trudi, I would like to thank you for bringing this Winter Sowing method to the forefront. It is a fantastic ideology and will certainly enhance my interest in my tree propagation hobby and hopefully my germination success. Too bad we couldn't clone this easy.

Hi Proudgm,

I don't know the physiology of nuts well enough to answer why you don't always need a male-pollinated female tree to develop nuts. Some trees are self-fertile and do not need a pollinator, but they will be benefited by it and likely produce more fruit.

I am looking at the Raintree Nursery catalogue which specializes in fruiting trees and edible ornamentals..,

a quick glance at their catalogues shows:

Roses don't need a pollinator but better fruit may be produced by more than one variety or seedling

Japanese Raisin Tree: doesn't mention any need for a pollinator

Filberts need two different seedlings or varieties that flower during the same season

Some almonds are self-fertile--you discard the fruit and save the nut inside for eating

English walnuts are self-fertile but benefit from second variety for pollination

etc etc

Similar or more complex information about the pollination needs of particular fruiting shrubs and tree varieties among species is available across the Internet at extensions or online catalogues.

In my neighborhood many of the streets are lined with oaks that have trunks nearly four feet across. This is jackpot land for squirrels. On my own property I have several fruiting trees but no nuts; because my space is limited I've planted multi-variety fruit trees, they're pollination is not an issue. This summer I was eating a peach and found that the kernel inside had sprouted--so I planted it and it grew. I transplanted the six-inch seedling into my garden last month. My neighbor has two peach trees which cross-pollinate each other. When the time comes, her trees will pollinate my own peach tree.

We have several state-owned hiking trails in the area, if I wanted to I could walk and pick up some acorns, viburnum fruits, or dogwood berries that have dropped with huge abundance. I could also walk through my neighborhood and pick up the acorns that have fallen onto the streets. I have a lot of sources for windfall nuts and fruits, or I could trade for them or buy them through catalogues. I just gathered some rose hips from a white rose which I will open and remove the seeds before sowing. This particular rose has less than a dozen petals per flower and is a hybrid--I may have similar flowers on the offspring but I would not be surprised with flowers that are tinged with pink and a different petal count.

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BillyBob, thank you for your kind words. All of us have senses to experience what unfolds in our own backyards--I may seem to yak more about it than most people ;-) I love simple processes to achieve great results. In almost everything simple is best.

Trudi

Here is a link that might be useful: Raintree Nursery

Hey there BillyBobc-
I hear what you are saying about those squirrels- that is another reason to use the very think - clear plastic - screw on lidded - peanut butter and nut jars from places like Costco/Sams Club. They can not get a grip on these- nor have I ever had one chew through it. And I have red squirrels too....
These jars have wide mouths- and I have girlie small hands and can get my whole fist in there to both sprinkle seeds and to pry out the seedlings and massive root structure once they have out grown their "mini green house". Usually, I am in no rush to transplant these- as then I have to pay closer attention to them then-
I use my dremmel tool and a smallish bit and drill plenty of small holes in the bottom. I feel the smaller holes keep un-wanteds out- and soil and roots in. I try to drill holes in the raised areas near the center as well as the flat areas so that even in standing water- or frozen solid to the ground- if draining is required- it will be able to happen.
I drill 4 small holes on the flat sides close to the top as well- opposite each other- as in the 4 directions. I feel the pressure changes this jar will go through will be justly served by these small holes- and the drying winds will be of little consequence, keeping things moist inside.
I have tried bottles for taller, quicker growing seeds- and found that I really do not like how the wind, or dog's lead will send these moving about the yard- and I have found the fact that they are cut 3/4's the way around leaves their strength compromised and with the dog- and heavy snows, and varmints! Strength is something I count on for these seeds that may very well need to stay in those containers for much longer than other WS annuals and perennials that can be transplanted in the spring- summer (ah well- sometimes very late into the fall as well.. My bad).
I might just add- I get real frustrated with the whole sticky tape and dirty fingers- and sticky containers once the tape comes off- Dirt is one thing- sticky and dirt is another. I guess it's a girlie thing...
I have cold frames. I wish I had a green house! I do not put WinterSown containers into the cold frames- their temps fluctuate too much for my zone 4 winter weather. On a sunny day it could fool ol' Ma Nature's handiwork with the seeds and destroy all her plans for them. I can not say what putting them in your cold green house will do.
I do not like to put Wintersown plants on shelves or tables here in my zone in the winter either. Wind- temp changes- sunlight- I really cant tell you what about "above ground" wintersowing doesn't seem to work as well for me as putting the containers directly on the ground- or sometimes stacking them on the ground along a fence. But I have noticed a difference in the germination- health- and percentages so that if I sow in winter- on the ground or on top of the snowbank it goes.
I will however put spring sowing containers on the shelves along the garage, or in the cold frames- but I can cover those quickly if a short freeze comes along.
I will nick seeds with a hard coat. I use my dremmel again with a flat diamond disk or some such cutter and hold the seed in one hand and apply pressure with the spinning cutting disk with the other till I notice a color difference in the shell. Usually- you are close enough to the meat of the seed that moisture can get through and start the germinating process without cutting into the (usually) white meat of the seed. BE VERY CAREFUL if you try this. These cutting blades do not have teeth- but enough pressure applied can give a nice cut to bony fingered flesh. You many want to look into a wooden ring clamp used by jewelers to hold rings while polishing them if you are doing a bunch.
I try to find a smoother place on the outer shell to nick- as I do not want to damage the growing bits inside should I some how cut too deep.
Kentucky coffee tree seeds- cannas- ipomoea alba- lotus have all been tried this way with great results!
Thanks there Trudi! I find it quite easy to share what I have learned from you and so many others here in the WS forum, as well as my own experiences! Some folks just never tire of listening (could they really be that polite?)- while more folks never tire of watching me hover over nearly empty containers- lest they be thrown out in the trash....
I second what Trudi says about making the time to visit your local arboretum or natural habitat area- My spin is- especially come seed harvesting time! Trees and shrubs way far out in the fields- and off the beaten paths are offering their gifts in hopes to make more of themselves... I like to oblige them, just a little bit.
Julie

I got two Norway spruce that sprouted in the summer. All the nuts that I planted were eated by rodents.

{{gwi:342269}}

I've winter sown Vitex or Chaste trees and Crepe Myrtles.

dem_pa

"girlie hands"; makes me smile to read that ;-)

We have a mature sweet gum tree. It's about thirty feet high eye candy gorgeous when the leaves turn each year. A couple of days ago it dropped the seeds out of its pods. There must be millions of seeds all over my patio and yard. They come down so thickly that they make a cement patio look like blacktop.

It's been a dreary wintry day here but I have gotten great joy from peering out the kitchen door panes and watching birds come all day to eat the seeds. I've seen chickadees, finches, starlings, grackles, cardinals and an assortment of mourning doves--there are eight morning doves out there right now. They never get all the seeds, I have several seedlings sprout each year in the flower bed below the tree, but they do get nearly every seed. If I had gathered a cup of seeds off the patio I don't think they would have been missed or made an impact to the life of any of these birds--there are so many seeds that it is a great bounty for all.

The extreme naturalist might protest the idea of gathering some wind-fallen seeds that are clearly abundant and certainly not endangered. It's always wise to look around before gathering seeds, if you see few don't take them. But if you see great abundance then a few that you rescue to grow and create your own habitat are a gift to the planet and all its children.

About three years ago I started to develop a shrub habitat in the backyard. My new neighbor cleared out some very badly overgrown nuisance shrubs and trees when they bought the house. It provided a lot more light for my garden and the lumberman kindly gave me the wood chips. I went to all the local nurseries and cleared out their "wounded or ugly" clearance tables and for very little money I was able to put in many shrubs that produce edible seeds or berries. I've got some ornamental viburnums, blueberries, dogwoods and similar. I've added grasses and hibiscus and grapes.

After I put in the shrubbery I noticed that the overall health of the garden had increased because it was attracting more birds that came and ate more bad bugs. But beyond being a small habitat (if you could even call it that) it's a great place to sit down at the end of the day and just relax for a while. Each year I've added more bushes and small trees to the garden--I actually think that I have gotten the layout of beds finished. The shrubs made hedging and divide areas in the garden and the trees anchor the beds. Everywhere I look there are signs of life--there are birds and butterflies and beneficial insects all season long.

I encourage everyone to grow grasses and shrubs and trees from seed, and fill in the gaps with something on sale when you can get it. It's very satisfying to have a garden that is more than just beautiful, but is also a vital part of the habitat and ecology of your area.

T

Trudi,

Do you have a picture of your shrub habitat? I am thinking of doing this in our 'tiny' backyard but DH has reservations. I would like to show him how it looks.

Thanks,
Necia