Nice photos Lisa!

WOW, Lisa, you have us at the first photo. That's like no fenestralis we've seen, we only have tiny ones & they are not lineated like that. That's an absolute stunner & not out 'donnable' - we so want one! The theory is that fenestralis does not do well in NZ but we're not sure if that's the case or whether we have a bad clone- any ideas anyone- does it need heat to grow well? The `PB' F2 looks a winner too- how big does that get? Thanks for showing these, we want to see more of these hawaiian beauties.
Most impressed, J & A

Just gorgeous Lisa!
I'm with J + A on that first one. I have also not seen a fenestralis as nice as that one, and different to the species grown here. Has David Shiigi seen your mature PB F2 he originally culled? Bet he regrets that act!

J+A - re fenestralis. You probably have the usual species of fenestralis, but it would only grow to a small size because it's not humid and hot enough in N.Z. We have the same trouble here in Northern N.S.W. and southern Queensland - fenestralis grows quite well, but only reaches approx. 35cm wide before flowering. In north Queensland, it is a giant of a brom, easily reaching 1 metre across. It is the opposite for Vr. hieroglyphica - in Cairns they are only medium-sized, and flower prematurely. Further south they grow much bigger. My first flowering hieroglyphica measured 165cm wide, grown in a mound on the ground. I sent seed of it to some in Cairns, and they flowered it at 40cm wide.

Thanks for the necessary fix of lovely photos, Lisa.

Cheers,
Kerry

Yes....I agree. Great photos Lisa, you have some amazing Vriesea there. The rosette on your "fenestralis" is just perfect. And those PB culls were a very good pick, for some reason the Nova hybrids always attract me. Is David still hybridizing these...? Where did he get to on the F3...F4...breeding of PB...?

The PB F2 is probably 3 or 4 ft. across. The 4 in front are siblings-- I think the 2 on the left are the same clone, but the others are different:

{{gwi:523530}}

I just potted them up into 3 gallon pots and moved them into the new shadehouse. It was a very overcast day for these photos. These just keep growing and have never bloomed. There are others from the same grex, though, that bloom fairly regularly and don't get nearly as big. At least I think it's the same grex.

Likewise the fenestralis have never bloomed. The only trouble with that is that means no pups or seed, and after a while you start to get a tall stalk, which is not terribly attractive. These still look pretty good, though.

{{gwi:523531}}

I'm really puzzled as to the identity. Not only are they more lineated than tesselated, they have what seems like more than the usual amount of dark spots on the underside of the leaf:

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A while back I came across a photo on a Brazilian site of something similar-looking labeled fenestralis x racinae, but I can't find it now. When you do a google image search for fenestralis though, some of them do look a lot like this. Might a lot of people have gotten ahold of seed from the same source, and could that have originated with the Brazilian grower (I forget who it was)? The lack of gloss, dark spots and strongly recurved leaves would make sense for a cross with racinae, but the size?????? These aren't quite as big as the previous ones, but they're hardly what you'd call diminutive. Even if they bloomed it wouldn't help much since fenesralis and racinae have pretty similar inflorescences, apart from the size.

Well, it seems you folks were writing the same time I was!

I haven't seen David in a while, so I really don't know what he's up to, but I assume he's still at it. One of these days I'll have to buy myself a plane ticket and go over to the Big Island and find out. I don't think he'd be too heartbroken about his culls, though. When you work with the foliage Vrieseas it's hard to get a really bad one, some are just nicer than others. You can't keep them all. He made his selections and I'm pretty sure he's happy with what he chose.

As to PB, I'm not sure how far he's taken it, but I saw this plant a couple of years ago at Sharon's:

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When I asked her what is was, she said "Oh, just an F3 or F4 of Pahoa Beauty." Her feeling is that if you have PB you don't ever need to do any other crosses because you can just keep selfing them and each generation will come out more varied and more intense than the last. I don't know if this is true or not, as I haven't had the opportunity to test it out for myself yet, but that's why I was thinking that maybe some of Maloy's crosses might benefit from a bit of self-pollination.

Lisa,
An Australian hybridiser of foliage vrieseas, Jack Koning, cites Vr. fenestralis as an excellent parent for larger foliage hybrids, dominant for green colours, soft patterns accepting size, and will accept red colour in spike. He also says when fenestralis is crossed with hieroglyphica, fosteriana or platynema variegata, the bulk of plants will reveal the fenestralis influence, including the small red dots under the leaves - but the plants will all be larger than both parents and all with tall flower spikes. So according to those observations and experience, your beautiful fenestralis variety could well be a cross between fenestralis and racinae. I agree that there is a racinae look about it, tho much bigger as you said. I grew a beautiful Skotak hybrid called 'Zapita' which has racinae in its parentage - and I think the form and spotting of racinae is very obvious.
Vriesea 'Zapita' (or is it???)
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I really like the few hybrids seen in bsi database/fcbs photo index registered with racinae as a parent, and crossed with fenestralis sounds like an ideal marriage. I have a fenestralis half-way through flowering at present, and a racinae soon to flower. I'm hoping to cross them, so am very interested in this thread. I will be a very happy chappy if I get something close to your fenestralis varieties/hybrids.

Cheers,
Kerry

Kerry,
collect that Fenestralis polen in a small pot, and store it in the fridge (if your not already doing this) Then your have a supply for the cross when the racinae flower is open. thanks for showing off the zapita, turned down a chance to buy a pup here, that im regreting now, might have to see if its still available.

Hey Lisa

How much fertilizer did it take to make 'down under' drool? ;-) BTW you also caused some spillage up here. Wow!

My Nova clearly likes his monthly 50% orchid fert very much. But what happens if you go overboard?

If I see all those nice Vriesea hybrids I can't help but wonder how long it will take before we see a fire engine red one...

Sander

Kerry, be sure to remove the stamens from racinae as soon as the flower opens too. That thing loves to self-pollinate! I was able to make one cross with it and (saundersii x bituminosa), but off the top of my head I can't remember which was the seed parent. I'll have to go check and take a photo for you.

Meanwhile, take a look at the Tropiflora page in the link. They show small seedlings of fenestralis that look very much like mine did at a tender age. Then below that is a full-grown racinae, so the similarities are very apparent. I had to laugh that they're marketing fenestralis as a terrarium plant, though. Maybe for a little while, but then it'll have to come out of there unless you have a walk-in terrarium!

I'd be very interested to see what you get out of that cross. I think it would probably be very nice, regardless of whether it's the same as mine or not. I see where B&T World Seeds has a listing for Vr. fenestralis x racinae, but they don't seem to have any seeds currently in stock.

Koning's comments about a hybrid with fosteriana or platynema coming out bigger than both parents is interesting, although not totally surprising. That happens quite a bit in crossings, and those plants are all within a similar size range. With racinae, though, I can't imagine how you could get something as large or larger than fenestralis. Your little Zapita is about the size I might expect from such a cross.

I'm not sure what he means by "dominant for green colors", as I've seen crosses with platynema that were quite pink. One plant that I like using as a seed parent is Elfi/Natasha, which has fenestralis in it, along with Poelmannii. It got the nice red floral bracts of Poelmannii and the glossy recurved leaves of fenestralis, and has just a hint of tesselation in it that can be brought out by crossing with another foliage type. The last 3 siblings you see on my first post above come from a cross with that and fosteriana, and I got a full range of colors from purples, pinks, reds, white and green. I selected 9 of them and just gave them the names of the numbers one through nine in Hawaiian. All of them have a single reddish flower spike except for 'Eono (6), which is yellow with little dark spots, as you can see emerging. 'Ehiku (7) has the best flower, a nice glossy red, but unfortunately none of them branch like Elfi. One of my goals is to get a showy bloom and beautiful foliage markings on the same plant. I'll let you know when I get there, but generally speaking I'm more interested in the foliage.

Here is a link that might be useful: Vr. fenestralis and racinae

All red would look good.

{{gwi:523536}}

Sorry bad form, but I had to do this. I made sure this won't pop up on ebay.

Sander

WOW,lisaclv
This was from seed?
How long take to bring them up
It is really too terrible

J+A, thanks for the tip re pollen stored in fridge - was thinking to try that. Should the pot be sealed? How long will it remain viable, stored like that? And yes, go for that Zapita if you can - it's a beauty.

Lisa, thanks for all your advice and thoughts on this topic - much appreciated. I'm a 'sponge' for all this. I have also grown Elfi/Natascha, as well as the variegated form, and I can imagine what potential it could have as a parent. Your hybrids of it crossed with fosteriana are very very nice. I can see Natascha especially in Ehiku, and love the glow of Eono. Well done - you ought to be proud :)
Re Jack Koning's comments on size - Jack lives and has always done his hybridising on the beautiful mid-north coast of N.S.W. Vr. fenestralis only grows to about a foot wide there, so I'm guessing, according to him, that the size of subsequent hybrids is comparably bigger than the species he grows.
I have a few different unregistered fenestralis x platynema hybrids, and yes they also have variations of red and pink in them......but then lately I have been questioning whether the true platynema var. platynema has been the parent of these hybrids. Some prominent early importers and hybridists of broms in Oz have long sold plants as Vr.platynema which I suspect is really a hybrid platynema x ?. It has stronger tessellation on both leaf surfaces, with a distinctive violet flush underleaf. In bright light it flushes a strong pinkish-red. My true platynema var. platynema remains green regardless of light, with more subtle tessellations. The bracts on the true platynema are a brighter pink-red, whereas the other one most commonly bought as the supposed platynema, has red bracts and more separated flowers - but also a single, unbranched stem. Our platynema variegated appears to confer with the general consensus. The same prominent growers/sellers/hybridists have also long sold a plant called Vr. platynema rosea - a beautiful thing but no official records anywhere, and sadly, our man passed away a couple of years ago, so its origin remains a mystery. He was responsible for many of the unregistered fenestralis x platynema hybrids, but I think he must have used the questionable platynema as the parent - which of course just adds to the variables of the hybrid recipe. I don't know if his fen x plat hybrids were imported to the U.S. - they could have been. All very complex but fascinating - brain hurting now!
Was your saudersii x bituminosa the variegated/albomarginated variety? I grow one without any variegation, and it has tiny dark red spots all over, so dense underleaf that the dots join - I love it! Keen to see your cross with racinae.
I will remove the pollen of racinae as soon as the flower opens - thanks for that invaluable tip as well. How long could I store its pollen for any extra future crossings?

Oh dear - all this time on the puter, and my garden needs me! But I so enjoy these global discussions on this forum - it has been a huge revelation for me, and so educational. Equally, I treasure the friendships formed with those sharing the same passion. THANK YOU!

and Sander - you are a wag! Love your red vriesea! LOL

Cheers,
Kerry

Kerry,
I agree with Lisa, as a general rule remove the stamens when that flower opens as the wind is enough to spread that pollen about. the fridge trick is quite normal, can get a years life out of it. If you use it within a week Ive found its ok out of the fridge stored in dark place. Some here freeze theirs when they expect to need it several years ahead.
Our Platynemia var variegata seems to match the image on the brom photo index site but again as per your comment there seems to be a lot of variation and width of leaves in what is named 'Platynemia' here and expect most of those have come in from Aust, maybe they are all hybrids ??.

Lisa,
Reallly spectacular plants! That fenestralis hybrid is out of this world gorgeous!
If you're anxious to see it bloom- I've told you before, send it to Michigan and it'll be in bloom by next summer. Or you can try putting one in the 'fridge for 16 hours every night for about 6 weeks. lol :>)
Paul

Have you tried or considered gassing it with etheral(sp.?) to induce flowering? - or simply a rotten apple sealed with it in a big plastic bag?

J+A, thanks again for the tips - but should the container of pollen be sealed?
Yes, I think Vr. platynema var. variegata is undisputed, but the supposed true species differs from the 'common' one sold as platynema, even in N.Z.? hmmm.....

K

Hi Kerry,
We cover the pots - just glad wrap or a lid if you have want, prevents left over curry making it's way in!
Congrats Sanders on your vivid vriesea - How much is your reserve on ebay!!

Hi Jaga, I guess that would make a fortune on ebay if it was real.

But by all my stupid remarks you guys have missed my serious question.

How do you guys fertilize? My Nova clearly likes the 50% orchid fert my Neos get very much.
But what happens if you go overboard? Strappyness and loss off colour?

Sander

You want red, Sander? I'll give you red.

Vr. Hawaiian Punch:

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Vr. Jan Nakamoto:

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Okay, the second one is more dark pink, but I want to keep crossing all the reds with each other and see if I can get some Vrieseas that look like Neos! They do lose their color if you fertilize too heavily or if they're not getting enough light. The form is not as much of an issue as it would be for a Neo though, and generally speaking my Vrieseas get more fert than the Neos do.

How many forms of Vr. platynema are there, Kerry? The only one that anyone I know here is growing is platynema v. variegata. I always just assume that if it's a hybrid with colorful foliage that's the one that was used. I know that's what Shiigi is using. I can't see the point of using a green one at all. Actually, it's hard to even see the point of even crossing v. variegata with anything, how do you improve on this? The one in the photo was grown fom self-pollinated seed and came out pretty true so I know it's not a hybrid.

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The Baensch book shows a platynema v. flava with yellow flowers and a platynema v. rosea with rounded leaf tips ending in a dark fingernail. That second one looks very much like what I've seen as Vr. bituminosa. Also they have pictures of what I know as saundersii x bituminosa, but they have it labeled saundersii x platynema, so I'm wondering if bituminosa is no longer a valid species. FCBS still lists it with no comment about its relation to platynema.

As to that cross I mentioned earlier, racinae was the seed parent and (saundersii x bituminosa) was the pollen parent (yes, it was a variegate). I kept the 2 best clones, not super showy but kind of interesting, and may have potential for further breeding of spotty guys. The first one got the dark red undersides from the bituminosa or platynema or whatever it is. Some spotting, most evident in the center leaves, and racinae's recurved form:

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The second one got spots, lots of 'em, from both racinae and saundersii:

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I think it might be interesting to cross the first one with the big fenestralis, but I really don't want to treat any of those to force them into bloom. I'm enjoying them much more as foliage plants right now, but maybe when one of them gets too tall to be attractive I'll shoot some Florel its way. Max, I can't remember when I started those seeds, but I'm sure it's been at least 10 years, maybe more.

BTW, the flowers on the foliage types generally open at night, so you either need to bring them into the house or go out with a flashlight (torch) and fiddle around. If there's something else in the mix, like Poelmannii, schwackeana, etc., then you'll get day-blooming flowers, which makes it a lot easier.

Speaking of racinae, one other thing I found interesting is that its distinctive leaf curl is much more pronounced in bright light. I could never figure out why they looked so nice in the greenhouse but when I'd load them up and take them to a sale they'd lose their curl overnight!

On a sunny day (but not FULL sun):

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and after being in the shade a few hours:

{{gwi:523545}}

Did I answer everyone's questions? Oh-- pollen storage. Everyone has different methods, I'm sure we've talked about this before, but mine is to pluck off the stamens and put them in a little film can or pill bottle with a tag, then set all of the little bottles inside a bigger pot and cover the whole thing just loosely with a paper towel and stick it in the fridge. I can get a couple of months out of it that way. I was told that it's important to let it breathe, but others here have had just as good luck sealing up the container, so you can't argue with success!

Lisa, they are all beautiful! Maybe when I grow up one day, I also will have a collection of Vrieseas like that!!

Oh my you have me drooling everywhere Lisa, they are gorgeous.

I do have the V. platynema var. variegata and a V. Reitzii, but to have a collection like yours.

one can only keep dreaming i suppose.

Congratulations they are truly beautiful

Sander,

here could be the answer to your question, be careful with fertilizing vrieseas. I since than cut off on the fertilizer and the problem has disappeared

Here is a link that might be useful: burnt vrieseas

Oh boy.

Looks like your nearly there Lisa!
Just a bit more red....
Actually you're not even that far from my photoshopped Vriesea.

Good to see your not only into Neo's.

Sander

Absolutely fantastic reds Lisa! - even better than Sander's :)
And I really like your (bituminosa x saundersii) x racinae hybrids too, especially the second one - which even looks like it has picked up a bit of the variegation.

Thanks for answering all my questions, Lisa. I have already been out with my torch in my PJs, stumbling through the garden in the dark, getting ticks in my forehead, performing a bit of hanky panky with my foliage vrieseas. In fact, there seems to be quite a few of us Aussie brom-nuts doing the nightly rounds at the moment. LOL

Yes we have that confusion here with bituminosa V platynema crossed with saundersii. We have Ro Ro, Highway Beauty, Slow Lane(?) - and some variegated, others albomarginated. I think bitumosa is more allied with philippo-coburgii than platynema. Bituminosa has similar dark tips to p-c, but is a much larger plant, with not nearly as nice an inflorescence.

Re Vr.platynema and its confused varieties, the fcbs photo index shows a photo by an Aussie of platynema var. platynema. The drawing above it has purplish underleaves, and looks different. I grow the same plant as Michael's photo shows, believing it to be the true species. Below are two photos of it growing epiphytically in my garden. Excuse the low res. - I cropped these photos to single out that brom.

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These next 2 photos show what has been circulated around the Aussie brom traps for a long time as Vr. platynema, but I now think it is a hybrid of platynema, and the one used in many crosses with fosteriana and fenestralis.

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And these next 2 photos show Vr. platynema rosea from the same seller/hybridist.

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The last 2 vrieseas, as well as platynema var. variegata, have been around for a long time here, and they are all tough plants. I agree with you Lisa about the variegated form - how could you improve on that?

And another observation about Vr. racinae - similar to using Neo. Fireball around the garden as a light metre according to its colour, I have used Vr. racinae as a water metre according to its form. If it is really curly, I know my epiphytic broms need a spray. After rain, my racinaes lose their recurved shape, similar to Till. streptophylla.

Cheers,
Kerry

Kerry, there's a very nice photo by Luiz Claudio Marigo of platynema variegata in habitat in Elton Leme's book "Bromeliads in the Brazilian Wilderness" (gotta give proper attribution here!). Unfortunately this scan barely does it justice:

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I was trying to compare the emerging flower spikes to the one in your last photo of platy rosea. There is some similarity but I think you're right that the rosea looks like a hybridy thing. Pure V. p. variegata has a lot of color and lineation, but no tesselation (crosswise squiggly lines). That's more of a fosteriana, hieroglyphica or fenestralis trait. Maybe 3/4 platy and 1/4 fost, or something along those lines?

At any rate, it's not the same as Baensch's photo of V. p. rosea, which as I say looks like a bituminosa, so the confusion continues.......

Also, there is apparently a truly variegated clone of V. p. variegata (see link) which I would love to get my hands on, but what would you call it, variegata variegata????

Here is a link that might be useful: {{gwi:523523}}

Wow, this is an informative and most beautiful thread. I've just discovered these gorgeous foliage vrieseas (never seen anything like this in New Hampshire) and have fallen in love. I can see my garden design taking a whole new direction. I have a great light set up in the house to overwinter all my temperennials and tropicals and figure the Vrieseas will do OK with that?

Deanne