lots of questions to answer. fitting in should be no problem- there are lots more transplants than natives n this area. it's a big melting pot.

along those same lines, it is growing FAST, bringing problems in having enough space to school the kids. the schools are very good imho, but bursting at the seams. their scores are consistently high, esp compared to other areas & the rest of NC but there's a lot of controversy on how to handle to overages, including some forced convcersions to year round schools (in the elem schools for now). now, my daughter's in yr round, voluntarily, and we love it, but it may not suit you. no matter where you move in the county if you go to public school, because of the huge growth, reassignment is a reality. the whole county is one school system, which has good an bad points. i beleive this yr the enrollemnt is somewhere in the range of 115,000, growing by 6-7k a yr. there are also plenty of charters, magnets, and private schools around if that's what you want to explore (my son's in magnet, which is a specially focused school within the public system you apply to go to). and plenty of people home school as well- some in frustration with the school situ, others for religious reasons. i think it's well accepted.

in general people are fairly non judgemental in this area- it's conservative leaning, but not so much it's very closeminded. of course, there are pockets of extremes, and if that's your thing, you can find a place to settle with like minded folks. where to live in or avoid depends on what you're after. give us an idea of what you're looking for, and you'll get better feedback. i know what i like, but it very well may not be what you're looking for.

our soils are mostly red clay, but some of the portions are surprisingly sandy. just depends on where you land. great area to garden- like you said probably not that different from tidewater area. yup, we swear at the jap beetles. doesn't everyone!? lol

people are very friendly- it's one of the things that drew us here from PA in the first place. we've been here since '91. i think it's a good place to raise kids- it's where mine were born. lots to do, relatively safe, 1/2 day's drive to the coast or mtns, and good schools. since we aren't active church goers, dunno how good they are, but there are plenty to pick from - more baptist than any other denom, but lots of variety around. it's a big area for health related stuff, so we have a very good health system in place.

despite the general grumblings every time taxes have to go up, our taxes are very low compared to anywhere else metro in NC. probably lots lower than what you had in tidewater. dunno much about CO. being from PA, the roads are wonderful here. yes, they are always adding more, so work is constant, but they are kept in very good shape. traffic can be an issue, depending on where you're commuting to/from. our weather is very temperate- we get a little snow each yr, and unfortunately we do get some ice and hurricanes threaten sometimes, but that's normally the worst of it. it changes very fast- there's a saying that if you don't like the weather wait 5 minutes, and it's true. it's hot & muggy in the summer, but doable, esp with AC. your body adjusts. there are tons of bugs, and critters, and because it doesn't cool off for long, sometimes the skeeters are nearly yr round. this has been a very warm winter so far, and i still keep seeing stray ones. we are warm enough to grow lots of great tropicals, some with protection, yet cool enough to grow most of the temperate things. most of raleigh is zone 7b. this areas is a mecca for great nurseries and nice arboretums. i guess it's partly because there's a lot of universities around, and several of them have facilities.

and, hey, almost forgot one of the best things- we have one of the most fun swap groups around!! :) great group of folks that gather 2x a yr or more to eat, swap, learn, chat & eat some more. can't beat that. and just in case you're wondering- NO- i don't work in any way for raleigh or the state. we just love it here. good luck with your decision! tammy

Tammy,

Thanks so much for the wealth of info! Its always nice to get perspective from the source. It sounds very nice, except for the bugs, and will help us make our decision.

To satisfy our gardening bug we would like at least a half acre. I know here in Colorado its tough to find anything over a quarter acre unless you live way out. Are there many areas where larger lots are available?

i was hoping i wouldn't be the only one chiming n- it's nice to hear other's perspectives. there have been similar threads in the past yr in this forum and in the conversations forum, so you may want to ck those to get a wider perspective.

don't let the bugs put you off- you get used to it. i don't think it's that much buggier than western PA, just a longer season, and i bet it's similar to tidewater. it's worth the tradeoff to be able to garden yr round.

about the land- depends on how close you want to be in town. and how rich you are! lol. land can still be found in pockets and definitely in the burbs around raleigh & in the unincrporated areas. i live 10 miles from the center of raleigh in a bedroom community called garner and we are on .66 of an acre. some of our neighbors have an acre. our houses are from the 60's, when the lots were bigger than today. across the rd are new developements and i'd guess they are mostly in the .5- .25 acre range. so some of it will depend on what kind of house you want and where you want it. there are lots of places if you are willing to be 10-15 mis out from raleigh where you can find 1/2 an acre or more. why don't you ck out the mls listing in this area to see what's available, the kind of houses, sizes of lots, areas, etc. to get a really good idea? best of luck. tam

Thanks again for the input. Even though only you responded there was lots of good stuff there. We'll see how this all pans out and maybe next time I post here it will be as a resident. Btw, it looks like some of our cold Colorado air is finally making it to you!! You guys can have it...we've had plenty this winter of both cold and snow. There is no global warming here, at least not this year, lol.

Dan

Hi Binnesman,

Good luck with your search - it is time consuming.

The best thing to do - read the newspapers online 1st, go to traffic reports online at the times of day you will be driving, try to get one of those underground newspapers that are NOT accurate, but DO cover the "dirt" and controversy in an area in a way a stranger can at least be aware of its existance...

Find out what new industry is planning to expand or move in - we chose not to move to 2 neighborhoods in 2 areas of NC because both neighborhoods were near small airports - one had just taken on UPS or FedEx with a zillion predicted flights per day planned and one catering to the golf set where the airport had been closed for years and the builder claimed would never re-open. (Delta announced it was starting flights the day after he made that statement...)

Then spend some time at all times of day in a 50 mile radius of where you think you want to live.

We looked at a lot of real estate for voluntary move to NC from CT all last winter online and in in person especially around the triangle and also (online) for the triad, but eneded up in Sandhills. The triangle is really built up and has major traffic problems - one of the reasons we were leaving CT. We looked into commuter towns like Fuquay Varina, Holly Springs and Garner - do not expect a single tree - this was tobacco and farm land once - and then North into the next county where it is not suburbia, but still country and you can easily get over an acre with some trees, (BUT no high speed Internet - a big deal for kids and people like me who consult from home - so ASK lots of questions.

(Tamelask - I do not know how you make it to Raleigh in 15 mins during rush hour...)

The prices are great all over NC, the commuter towns have tons of families and activities for kids, but as others said earlier, all the area "grew too fast" to keep up with all the needs.

(Our family is grown, but we still care about living where education and kids are important and are willing to have taxes go up for those reasons. The Sandhills, however, is definitely more retirement friendly than family friendly, I think.)

People all over NC seem friendly and open (and despite "natives" wishing the growth wasn't so fast), welcoming to newcomers. When we looked at houses we could feel that and it made us want to come to NC more than ever and we love it here.

Hope you find your spot in NC.
S

it's about 10 miles to the center of town, and unless i hit rush hr proper it only takes me 15 minutes, i swear, heading onto timber then hammond and , no i don't break the speed limit. rush might take and extra 5- i drove into town for 10 yrs at 8:45 and it was normally between 15-20, even before hammond opened up. in fact, i get to my son's school in 10 minutes in ear;ly afternoon, and it's just on the southern corner of downtown, about 8 miles from home. so it's really not bad. now if i were to try 70/401 it might be more like 20+minutes. ask triangle john- he's around the corner from me. i wouldn't want to deal with the knightdale area traffic, or some of the mess around the airport, or around 70/crabtree, but that's why we chose garner. north raleigh is closer to downtown but takes longer to commute in because of traffic. as i said before, it all depends on what kind of atmosphere you want, and what your priorities are. in general, it's harder/slower to go east/west than north/south in town (unless you are using the beltline, which does get quite conjested during rush hr). reason is they time the lights going north & south, but not east to west. it's further east to west, too- raleigh's sort of a rough oval shape.

i agree that there's tons of development in garner (too much!!), but i take umbrage at you saying there's no trees left here. there are- and not just developer planted trees. there's lots of old neighborhoods and parks. take a look at google maps if you don't believe me. i'll grant, many many have been cut inthe last 10 yrs for new cookie cutters, much to my dismay, but it's hardly treeless. we're on property from the 60's and have more than half a dozen trees that i could in no way wrap my arms around the trunk- and i'm not tiny. plus another dozen that i could , but are still a goodly girth.

there's lots of spots along lake wheeler/penny rd and down 10-10 & such that feel almost in the country- where you could get an acre. i don't know where other spots are in the county, only because it's been so long since we lived in north raleigh, but i know they're there. we would love to have lots more space and less neighbors, but we decided we'd rather be close to amenities, good schools and work and the growth always rings out and catches up anyhow. we couldn't afford a 'nicer' area when we bought and have roots here now and love it. this way we're close by conveniences but still insulated some. there are nice pockets of protected feeling land- you just have to be willing to look carefully for them.

i think the whole area definitely grew too fast- but i think that holds true for more than the bulk of up and coming metro areas. i'm more of a slow & steady kinda gal when it comes to that stuff and hope and pray they are learning from their mistakes. it seems like they try in fits and starts. good point about cking into the up and coming businesses. i agree that you're going to need to do your research thoroughly and carefully consider what's important to you and your family. i'm sure you'll find somewhere you'll love in the long run. best thing is the people are so friendly down here, and that makes all the difference.

A high percentage of the people posting on this forum live in the Triangle area, so if you read back through the recent postings. you can quickly get an idea what the biggest gardening concerns are. To the east of Raleigh is sandy soil and to the west is mostly red clay. Much of the Raleigh area is loamy clay, but the soil types vary widely from area to area. Most of the newest neighborhoods have big houses on small lots, and almost all of the newer developments are outside the city limits of Raleigh. However, there are a number of areas with relatively new homes that have more spacious lots. The difficulty will come with finding one with a large area that gets enough sun to have a garden because most established homes are likely to have one or more large trees for shade. My guess is that the climate here is very much like what you experienced in the Tidewater (like high humidity) except we probably get a little colder in the winter. However, this winter we have had two days between 15 - 20 degrees and only a few others below 25 degrees. Last year's lowest temp was, I think, only 19, but these past two winters have been exceptionally mild and it does get down into single digits or below occasionally. We get little snow but have memorable freezing rain and ice storms. As a result it is possible to grow all kinds of salad greens outdoors all winter with a minimum effort to cover them during the coldest nights. If you decide to take a job here, post again re where you will be working and we can probably be more specific as to what areas will be most convenient for you.

Before I moved here I bought the Sunday paper (News & Observer) from a newsstand in OKC every week for a year. I did lots of online house searches and noticed that Garner was significantly cheaper than all the other burbs. When I asked the personnel dept person for the job I was trying to get why the disparity she said that Garner was too redneck and that no one wanted to live there. This caused me to laugh a bit since I was moving from Oklahoma - land of the red necks. The things I love about Garner: It really only takes you 10 minutes to get to downtown Raleigh (I don't think it matters which of the two major roads you take, its still only 10 minutes), there are more quiet neighborhoods and for most of the year the town parks are empty (good for walking the dawg - what most people call dog walking, I call owner dragging), it has every store I would want my town to have (except a book store), it has less clay and more sand than most of Raleigh, houses were way cheaper 6 years ago when I moved here (now they cost a bit more but still less than inside the beltline) and I have just over an acre after getting a little 1/3 acre parcel beside me that no one wanted.

What didn't go well was dealing with a realestate agent. The guy had no concept of gardening - he would call a yard landscaped if it had a hosta and one azalea bush along the driveway. He would never show a house in an older neighborhood, he only wanted to show new homes in the subdivisions (gag. I call them "cans on a shelf" homes, they all look alike. little soldiers all in a row). He would wind his way around town even though some of the houses were only one street away from each other just to act like he was really going out of his way to show everything - we could've walked between them they were so close! Anyway, I got an older home in an older neighborhood. I love the house and yard. I love it that I live in a neighborhood where no one notices if you haven't mowed your lawn - ha ha ha, like we even HAVE lawns! weeds and woods is more like it. I commute to work in another suburb (Cary), sometimes I take the highway (I-40/beltline) but if it is backed up I can easily scoot across town on either Hillsborough or Western Blvd and get to work only 5 minutes later than usuall. I like having choices when it comes to roads. And I like my home to be in a quiet area within 10 minutes of the city.

Hi Binnesman,

If you can afford upwards of $400,000 for a house, your choices will be numerous. Raleigh real estate has gotten quite expensive.but not as expensive as northern Virginia. We are in an older neighborhood and have 2.5 acres, however, most of it is wooded. There is not enough full sun for vegetable gardening, but plenty of opportunities for beautiful, southern shade gardening. Trees abound, which is good and bad. They really take water and nutrients out of the soil, so you will see many "natural" areas, though well mulched to look good.

Our children are grown, but we pay close attention to the school situation because our grandchildren also live in Raleigh. We are in North Raleigh and, for the most part, the schools are excellent. WE live on a small cul de sac which includes 16 children! One family homeschools, one family sends their children to a nearby Catholic school, one family's children attend a magnet school (described above) and one family sends their children to the local public school, which is excellent. The wonderful thing about this is that on the weekends and during the summer, all of these children are filling the cul de sac and playing together. That is a wonderful feature of living in Raleigh.

Proximity to so many major universities (NC State, UNC, Duke) and colleges provide many opportunities for children and adults. Our art museum is highly regarded nationally and is right across the street from the state fairground. Your kids will enjoy the state fair every year.

Restaurants! Wonderful restaurants abound. Not knowing your lifestyle, I don't know if this is as important to you as it is to us, but just know that you will have many wonderful choices.

Just this past week, the outer loop of our beltline opened. This made it so much easier to access the northern and eastern parts of Wake County. The towns of Knightdale and Wendell are expected to explode, however the schools may not be quite as good yet. If you homeschool, this is, of course, less a consideration. If you are contemplating a job in the Research Triangle area, getting there is going to involve traffic no matter where you live.

I have probably rambled, but, we love living in Raleigh. Yes, there is traffic, and yes, the schools have not kept pace with growth. However, highly desirable places to live have growth problems.

Keep us posted and good luck with your decision.

Apologies to all when I said "no trees" in Raleigh area - I definitely should have specified in the "new developments." I guess I was mentally balancing CO Mountains and Aspen trees vs. all the slash and build and old farmland tract housing we were shown in Greater RDU/Triangle. (But we wanted a new house - did the multiple acres, "this old house" etc when we were younger, and want to buy some time before we need to think "improvements."

Gardening is that is a delight in the MidAtlantic climate of NC and the people are great!

My family and I are also relocating to Raleigh in the next few months from Dallas, TX. We are so excited about the move, but I could use some suggestions on locations & commute times to Durham. My wife is adamant about living more south & east of Raleigh (b/c it will make the drive-time to the beach shorter), but we also do not want my commute to last hours per day. We also want to live somehwere that has a lot of convenience to shops, things-to-do, etc. Thoughts, suggestions? I've been looking at real-estate there for over a year now and have a good idea of housing & prices, but I would like some info on the suburbs around the area from people who live there. I saw this thread & thought I might ask my questions here. Thanks!

well, i don't think you'll find anywhere in the county that is incovenient to shops & stuff, unless you're on the very fringe; it's all pretty well developed or getting there. probably the most well developed area to the south of raleigh is cary, but it's southwest, not east. garner would be the next on the list. knightdale and holly springs are getting there, but both would be worse commutes, i think. it depends on how much convenince you want vs the slightly countryish feel or how much suburban vs city feel, to put in another way. i guess a big part of what you need to weigh out is how often you'll go to the beach vs driving to work 5 days a week. in that equation, i'd err on the work side; an extra half hr to the beach would be no big deal. i can tell you from garner that non rush hr it takes me 35-45 minutes to get into durham, but i really don't know how much iit would add to do it in rush hr. probably a lot- like double, possibly. it only takes about 2 hrs to get to the closest, but also most crowded beach from here (wrightsville), but 2 1/2 hrs to probably 4 or 5 others, and a couple in between. we always opt for the extra half hour to get to less crowded beaches, personally. it's 5 hrs from the outer banks, and about 3 to emerald isle and northern myrtle. and, you know, you might want to consider durham, too- it's got some nice neighborhoods, and then you wouldn't be dealing with the commute for work. it would probably add 45 mins to a drive to the beach- maybe less, since you wouldn't be fighting rush hr for that.

there is an outer outer beltline(540) that runs along the top of wake co that cuts commute times to durham, but unfortunately, it doesn't look like the bottom half is going to be done anytime soon and there's talk of it being a toll road. don't get me going on how unfair that is. at any rate, unless you're a little ways out, you'd be backtracking/heading south to get to it from garner when it's built. but... maybe that's a solution for you- it would be closer to the beach, but would add a little to the commute now, but knowing it would get shorter someday. for instance, down around white oak which is about where 540 will cut across, you can zip up 40, over 440, then to 147 to get to durham now. that's probably about 10-15 minutes longer than it takes me from central garner. eventually though, with 540, it would be shorter. north raleigh is built further out, as is knightdale, so 540 can really help if you choose a place out there.

as i said to the other guys, it depends on what kind of feel you are looking for. and, btw, one solution if you want a new house on more land and don't want in a new development, is to buy and old one and knock it down and start over. i hate to see it, honestly, but it is becoming more popular. i guess it's better than mushrooming developments.

and, of course, what you want to spend factors in big time. cary is very expensive, garner less so, holly springs getting to be inbetween, and fuquay and knightdale cheaper, at least for a little while. now that 540 goes to knightdale, my guess is the housing will skyocket there. i wouldn't say garner is redneck any longer- but it is a quieter bedrooom community, though there's plenty to do. cary is much more of a little city- but too controlling and yuppie for my tastes. again holly springs was out there before, but now is much more gentrified, and crowded, and fuquay varina & knightdale is/was fairly redneckish, but will be yuppied up real soon. they all have pockets of more expensive areas, and less expensive. there's lots of between areas- not really part of a town, that are still very quiet, but close to amenities. i can't really speak to the northern burbs, because it's been so long since we lived up that way. hopefully someone who lives up there will shed some light. southeast raleigh (above & east of garner, west of knightdale) is the one area that has a consistently 'poor' reputation, but even it is up and coming in pockets. parts of it are real scary though.

hope all this helps. i hate to generalize, because it's not really fair. best thing is to come and see yourself to get a good idea of the feel of places.

One easy way to view it all is to look at a map of the city. If the neighborhood you are hoping for has only a two lane road leading to your job or to the nearest four lane to get you to work - that two lane is gonna be packed up for rush hour. If you have to commute you want to live as close to a major road as possible and you want multiple choices when it comes to roads. I-40, the main artery between Raleigh and Durham is a parking lot at rush hour (both in the morning and the afternoon). From my house in Garner it can take 25-30 minutes to get to the airport (which is between Raleigh and Durham) during the middle of the day or late in the evening, but during rush hour it takes around 2 hours. Traffic just stops going into RTP (Research Triangle Park - a city sized industry corridor near the airport). There are lots of choices between Raleigh and Durham, the two cities are very close together and if you can find a place with an easy commute to I-40 you can get to the beach in just a few hours.

Thanks to all for the input so far...very good information and I appreciate it. A few more details: I would be working near the airport. Our house here in CO will probably sell in the mid 500's so we could spend around that amount.

Of course we will have to see all the areas you are talking about when we get there to see for ourselves, but you guys are giving us some great places to start. Any areas to avoid?

We can't give you any areas to avoid since we are all gardeners - perennial optimists, so to us there aren't any. No matter where you buy a house, it will be surrounded by dirt that you can garden in.

There are many older and some newer places on an acre or more, but be mindful that the farther out you go part of that land may be septic field and it may have a well. The disadvantage would be that you'd only be able to grow grass or shallow rooted non-edibles on that field; the advantage of a well is not having to deal with water restrictions.

If you are going to working near the airport I would say to look North and West of Raleigh for an easier commute so you don't go through Raleigh to get to it.

Nancy the nancedar

Thought I would add in some "lived in NC all my life"
comments for you to consider. I grew up on the West side of Durham and attended public schools there also. I went to college at Campbell, on the south side of Wake Co. From there I have lived in Greenville ( 20 years, Princeton (in
Johnston County) for 10 years and on Topsail Island for the
past years. I would recommend Johnston County as a consideration...great schools (taught there too) for your kids, also high scoring.., open to home schooling with associations in the area to interact, and a wide range of
housing. Interstate 40 makes it a commute of about an hour to downtown Durham. Lots of roads take you to our beaches in a jiffy...so consider your needs first. Good Luck!