I've cut open a zillion Cecropia cocoons and the moths look the same as the ones that had to squeeze themselves out. I've had dozens of Lunas pupate without cocoons (their siblings ate the leaves) and the moths came out fine. I've cut open probably a dozen Polyphemus cocoons and those moths came out fine.

OTOH, Regal chrysalids not kept in dirt seem to produce a moth with matted "fur" when compared to wild Regals. I'm curious whether making their way through the dirt sorta cleans up the newly emerged moth. That said, I don't think I've raised enough Regals yet to make any conclusions.

Himmelman uses a story about someone helping a moth out of a cocoon and the moth being severely deformed as an example of why the moth needs to come out on its own. To me, this story is pretty worthless because many details are missing. I've helped out many moths that came out severely deformed because they had been stuck too long while trying to squeeze out of their cocoons. Their wings and bodies had dried, causing the deformity. The moths would have been just fine if I had caught their predicament earlier or if I had removed their chrysalis from its cocoon in the first place.

That said, I will not say Himmelman is wrong about squeezing out of a "tight cocoon" being "necessary to push out excess fluids." There are thousands and thousands of moths out there I will never raise and maybe some of them do require the squeeze to eclose in a healthy state.

KC

Thanks KC!

How are you raising your Regals? I tried it once and it never made it. I have heard that moisture can be tricky for them.

We ended up with quite a few Polyphemus cats at the end of the year. Thank you very much! I took one to the third graders in my daughters class. It was the perfect caterpillar to let them pass around on a stick. I warned them that if they bothered it too much it would "barf" on them. You should have seen them pass that stick around. You would of thought it was a plate of liver that would spill on their laps if they made a wrong move. Hysterical! I warned them it would probably click first if disturbed. At one point one kid yelled "It's clicking!" with a horror stricken face. It wasn't, they have active imaginations.

Thanks again,
Elisabeth

Having reared moths from all around the world hundreds of times I can make some brief generalizations. Moths (all Lepidoptera) that have made it through full metamorphosis (develpment) eclose naturally when the conditions are right for them, ie temperature, humidity, photo period, etc. That doesn't mean they will all eclose sucessfully and become perfect adults. Many do not IOW. Failure to escape in a timely manner from their pupal case is a common cause, whether it be a bare cocoon in an earthen/leaf litter chamber, just hidden in a space under rocks or whatever or a double cocoon with a bare sheath inside a more loosly woven external cocoon. The "juices" if present initially at eclosion is usually to help disolve or soften the sheath/case to make it easier for the newly emerging adult to break through, especially when their is a double cocoon. The imago usually needs some resistance against the sheath/case to pull itself completely free from the case(s). The other "jucies" are the the ones the escaped imago usues to pump up their wings before dumping the excess and drying the wing veins. So long story short, in the artificial environment we pass our cocoons through estivation in (or over-winter them)... yes some species can escape and form fine even if bared and some can't. Generally, unless a "stuck" imago is found in a very short time after eclosion, helping it escape will not always be sucessful and in this state they are extremely subject to injury (puncturing or damaging veins, damaging legs, etc).Sorry, need to go lay down... hopefully a little help anyway.

Larry

Thanks so much Larry! That does help. I hate when authors write generalizations. So, your and KC's experience is really important. It's my own fault. Himmelman's book is a good introduction but not a scientific tome. I am frustrated trying to find good books on various Lep subjects. I have tons of abstracts, and a few reviews, on a couple subjects. I find it interesting that the Lep world covers so many scientific subjects. Sometimes, I wonder if the right hand knows what the left hand does.

Anyway, your answers are always very helpful and I am glad to see you posting. Keep taking care of yourself and have a good holiday with your family.

Cheers,
Elisabeth

Elisabeth,

About regals:

I raised most of mine in aquariums in my house on sweetgum. I have not had any problems. OTOH, the lady across the street was doing the same thing except her aquarium was in a screened porch. I think only one of her's made it to pupa.

I had too many caterpillars last year to raise all my HHDs inside and I don't have my own sweetgum so I put a bunch of the regal eggs in rearing bags on 3 ash trees I have (no clue what type of Ash trees I have). All of the cats on 2 of the trees died. A few on the third tree did make it to pupa but the cats got to only 3 inches and didn't feel like it/unable to dig into the dirt for pupation. They just lay on top of the dirt for days before making a pupa.

I tried something new (to me) last season with my Regal pupa. I've read about many people keeping pupa in the frig so I thought I'd try it this year (I'm always worried about some determined rodent finding my pupa stash in the garage). I put some of my 2008 regals, all my 2007 imperials and regals and a 2008 tobacco hornworm in pseudo-Tupperware in the crisper drawer. They are on paper towels and I put in a couple drops of water every two weeks. We shall see what happens.

KC

Maybe not a good year for HHD? All of ours did not make it. Probably because they were competing with some voracious cecropia on our one sweetgum in the house :). Also, I noticed, they were not the smartest of larvae. They would chew themselves off leaves. It's too bad because I love them. They are the coolest caterpillar. I raised one at home a couple years ago. I hope we have some in the house this year.

Thanks for the info!
Cheers,
Elisabeth