NO dont give up
You and your plant can recover from it.
I assume you have been useing a form of pesticide,maybe try a different brand.
I learned a little tip a while back that may help whith some pests...If you put about a 1/2 inch layer of perlite on top of your soil it will discourge some of the pests like knats due to the fact of them not having the nice damp soil to play in:)

Hi Mike..Nope, don't throw in the towel.. :)
You ask what'd we'd do...I'd work on the environment..
Increase humitiy.. (we have 2 humidifers, 2 indoor fountains..I also mist and shower plants)
Air circulation.. During winter months, when air is stuffy, I'll sometimes turn the ceiling fan on low speed..Also run a fan, (not directed towards plants)
My citrus sit before the brightest windows plus artificial light, (shop light)
Keep citrus in a room/s that's moderately cool to semi-warm, temps drop 5-10 degrees at night.
Though many people think misting is useless, I disagree. Spray leaves daily..it takes about 10 seconds to mist one plant..Showering in the sink/shower once a week is a pick-um-up.
I mix up a spray, Mike..Water, 2-4 drops of dishsoap, grated citrus rind, grated garlic. If webbing is present, I spray using the above concoction..3 times a wk for two wks..OR, sometimes once a wk, every other wk, throughout winter, as a preventative. Oh, I've also tried cigarette butts dipped in water 24 hours..(for scale, (long ago) but it didn't work..Fish Emulsion rids scale..I love the stuff!!
On warm days, crack open a window..this freshens the air..50F+ days..
Proper watering..soil HAS to dry before given more water..It's simple enough to test. Stick finger in soil, as deep as possible..if your finger comes out clean, most likely the plant needs water. If you're unsure, wait a couple days then water. Lift entire plant..if it's light in weight, water, if heavy, don't. After a thorough drink, lift pot to test what it feels like...Water guages..Buy two for accuracy. I have a few but only use to test pH.

Since you've found fungus gnats and mites, your soil 'may' be too heavy, and overwatered..Heavy soils are the worse..some never dry..LOL.
I mix soils..(S) all purpose, builder's sand, and perlite..the three main mediums. I believe Florida's soil is sandy, so the object it duplicating.

Mites and gnats are easy to rid..what I can't figure out, and thank God, they hardly ever attack: Mealy..Oh Goodness..they're the worse.

Since you found Thrip, you have to figure out why and where it came from...Have you recently brought in a new plant/s???
I checked out 3 citrus plant books for you..One says, Thrip are a problem mainly in the west. Natural preditors keep thrip to a minimum, so sparying is not recommended. Another books say to use Malathion andor Diazanon..Though I wouldn't use chemicals on edibles..
How did you happen to find the Thrip? They're tiny..Is it a positive ID?
Mike, don't give up..I've read your threads/posts it sounds like you're a real citrus lover. It's difficult growing sub/tropcials in our part of the world, but not impossible. Work is involved keeping them healthy and happy.
For a start, why not haul each plant to the tub and shower? Try misting..Misters cost about 1.99..What will it hurt?
Do you summer plants outside? Good luck, Toni
PS.. Do you have pics?

Hi Toni,

Thanks so much , and kev too. U would not believe this. What is frustrating is that I follow everything to a tee. It is so humid in my room, that my friends drip sweat when they come over and spend time in there. The humidity level NEVER reaches below 60 on my hygrometer all winter, I also have the fans going. It is like being in the Tropics. 70's to 80 by day, then 60's by night. Never stagnate air.Sometimes if I sleep in their, I wake up soaking wet. Lots of gro lites and has the most sun as I can get in south facing windows. I can see if I was doing all this wrong, my I would have a problem and that is what eats me.In fact the plants are thriving, but so are the pests, everytime my plants flush out with new growth. There is no reason for all the pests. It seems as if the mites I have love the humidity and the misting I do everyday. I swear I see them swimming in bathingsuits!!LOL
I have even release predator insect 3 times all winter. Still they come back.
I pretty much keep them under control. I never let the mites start to webb..THANKGOD!! I also use a fast draining soiless mix that I let dry out. But somewhere in my room at one time or another, there is always going to be one pot at a time just watered because thay dry out faster than others. That is why the Knats. I know they are brought in from the greenhouses or where they are bought. I have yellow strips in every pot!!lol You wouldn't believe how many I catch. I have over 30 plants in the same, only one sunny room I have, Not to say that I would have to lug all of them down to the first floor into the shower. But I was kind of doing a little better in attitude until last night I decided to examine my Plumerias new leaves since they looked like they were being attacked by something. Again I found mites on them. So yesterday morning I sprayed everything down with neem oil, mixed with soap, and alchohol, just to come back last night, rexamin the leaves and see no more mites , but a THRIP crawling down a leaf.
They are so ugly, very tiny, almost like a skinny walking maggot. Real skinny. That is when I got so discouraged. I can't seem to keep up with all these insects. I think thrips hide in the soil too. That is what makes it tough to rid them until spring.
Your right, I probably GOT IT FROM AMOTHER PLANT FROM ANOTHER STORE. That is exactly how I got the mite problem since the beginning of winter! And the Knats! I never had these many pest problems all the years prior to this.
I guess, I will just have to keep them at bay at least, even if I can't hit everyone, then treat all my plants outside when it is warm enough to leave them there, and sanintize the entire plant room.
What do you think? Also, once I can learn to download pictures on to this post, I would love to send you some of my pictures!!
You are so so nice and caring!
Please contact me again..ok respond to me on this thread. You are slowly encouraging me...;-)

Mike, you are SO funny; what a sense of humor..mites in bathingsuits..LOLOL

Well, you certainly have me stumped..humidity, fresh air, sun...The only thing I don't understand is soil-less mixes. I've read posts from ppl who use soil-less mixes, but have always wondered if there's any nutricional value to keep a plant going? This is just my opinion..
Of what I read about soil-less mixes, a plant needs more fertilizer, or rather fertilized more than plants potted in standard soils..
In the past I sowed seeds in soil-less mix, according to the package, it too stated frequent fertilizer..
Are all your citrus potted in soil-less mix? If not, how are citrus doing in standard potting soil?

Mike, don't give up the ghost..LOL..or citrus in this case. Do you summer plants outdoors? If so, did you spot bugs?
I'd love seeing your plant pics..
When outdoors, aside from sun, fresh air, and humidity, if one has a hose, spraying foliage (usually) knocks bugs off foliage. I don't think it works with scale, those suckers hang on for dear life.

Mike, what other plants do you have? Do you grow annuals indoors? Or plants considered mite magnets?

Also, what size/height are your citrus? Do you happen to have a sink on the floor they live? A deep sink with attached hose?

Mike, please do me a favor..Try my soap concoction..There's nothing harmful..stuff most ppl have lying around the house..One thing I forgot to mention is using Cayenne Pepper.
Ironically, several yrs ago, I purchased a spray to dissuade squirrels from digging/eating plants..The label on bottle said the spray also kept insects away. Lo and behold, I started using Cayenne Pepper, (as a preventative.) In powder form.
The name of the spray is Hot Pepper Wax Insect Repellent.
Think I got it at Michigan Bulb, if I'm not mistaken.
Mike, I am NO citrus expert, don't know if I have a Garden Angel or simply lucky, but for the most part my citrus are insect free..Perhaps it's because I spray w/the concoction in winter, AND before bringing plants indoors in fall, after being sprayed with soap and Fish Emulsion..
I'm not saying my plants never get buggy..I had a scale infestation one winter, after bringing in an Olive Tree..Fish Emulsion resolved the problmem less than 48 hours later..One fall, I had a whitefly problem..oh that was awful..Bought Yellow Sticky Traps, and like you, captured literally hundreds of whitefly. Every so often, I'll spot webbing, but after spraying w/soap, they die. Well, they go somewhere, but as long as there's no evidence like webbs or yellow, sticky leaves, as far as I'm concerned, they're goners.

Nope, don't give in to bugs..It's too bad your sun room isn't equipped with cement flooring with drain..lol..I think we midwest/north people should live in homes w/solariums..glass rooms. Windows aren't the best, especially when the 'house next door' blocks light.
Is your house close to your neighbors? or several feet, more, away? The spacing between our house and the neighbors is, hmm, maybe 15'..close enough to block light in south LR windows..sigh..
But, I have a small, 8x12 gh, which works out..wish it was larger..LOL..One side has a shelf, the other a short table to set trees on. Inside is a plastic container filled w/water..this sure helps raise humidity..Not being rich, lol, we make do with what we have..Right?
Mike, how old is your oldest citrus? Any other plants? Toni

Hi Toni,

Thanks for getting back to me....

I have my trees in different mixes...Some have been growing in regular potting mix for about 2 years. Some I just transplanted in Al's mix...Equal parts of turface, bark fines, and crushed granite, and them some in my own concoctions, bark,perlite,crushed granite,and a little peatmoss.Then some in 4 parts bark, one part peatmoss, one part perlite.. Seems like the soils dry out nicely. I give 1/4 strength of fertilizer at every watering. MG with Epson salts, STEM and MICRO"S are involved, and fish emulsion once in a while..
They seem to grow very healthy now that I have gotten away from soil that compacts and stays wet for too long. I had tried the organic route. I use to use soils with added dehydrated manure, crab shells, more peatmoss, some prepared soils with bat gwamo and castings..I think it was called...The Gold Mix and so on, with no sucess. So when I say soiless, I mean all the fixings that break down slowly or not at all without all the poops and added fertilizers that say organic on the box that you mix in with the soil. You know, the pwder fertilizers you scratch into the soil. I only use about 10% worm castings in whatever soil I make though. There is something about them that makes good strong root systems upon inspection after 6 months. Sounds RIGHT?
Any suggestions?
What soil you use? It's probably already posted, but I am too lazy to search.. My bad! How do you make yours? And what do you do to keep it working well for you? What do you feed your plants? Is your soil well draining? What do you fertilze ur Citrus with and how often? What is the key to your sucess and healthy plants? What is your routine?
My south windows face nothing but all sky..THANKGOD!! Or I would move!!:-)
I never knew that fish Emulsion was so good on bugs. I keep hearing it, but I never tried it. Doesn't it stink bad though? Especially in a room. I would never be able to have my friends over!! Hey, knowing the stupid mites I have, they are probably wearing gas masks too...!!
I would love a glass room too!!! That is one of my dreams! My plant at work is surrrounded by all Glass and Sun,wish my boss would let me winter all my plants here! Last year, my fellow employees and my boss ate all the oranges..8 total! It is the only plant that has no problems and has no bugs!! It has fruit and flowers again as we speak. That one I ignore except for a shot of MG once in a while...WEIRD ha.
My oldest tree is about 3 years old. It almost dies this fall due to, ready, too much organic material in the soil. The greenhouse I brought it too said that I was overdoing it! To change the soil out immediately and leave the poops out!!lol. I had fungas knats in there, maggots and even a worm!!lol
I cut in down to about a foot high. It is a short Pondersoa lemon. I have just a few Citrus, sum a year old and little, and a couple I ordered recently about 3 feet high. I also have Palms, Plumerias, Jasmine....All bug lovers delight plants I am sure..lol Add them together about 30 plants in one room!!
I recievd some predator mites last night for FREE!! from a company that felt so bad for me...Lets see if they work..
But, how the heck am I not to worry about THRIPS now. They are murderers. I hate them worst than mites!! At least mites you see them. THRIPS, they are like MICE, they only show up when your NOT looking for them!! GRRR.. In the morning, you see a new top growth being slowly snipped off!!
They even attacked my only Plumeria that was budding!! They chopped the flower head right off. I caught that sucker though with a magnifying glass and my fingernail!!
What kind of product can you put in the soil to kill pests? I think I have the leaf thing all set. I will spray the hell out of them when I put them out. Since I do not eat the fruit, maybe a good systemic Rose spray?
Looking forward to your view on things and anyone else that could be of help.
Happy Friday!!;-)

hello, i found that before spraying, i have used scotch tape to take off the bugs from the leaves and stems. because they stick to the tape they are not able to escape from the spray and come back. the tape did not harm the leaves at all.
sue

Pretty good idea ;-)

Sue, tape is a wonderful idea..how many bugs do you catch using a piece of tape? Anything that rids those suckers is worth it..Do you use Scotch Tape or another brand? Which bugs are mostly captured? And how large a piece do you use? Tape is one novel idea.

Mike.wowee..Okay, first I have to ask about worm castings..A friend raises worms..LOL..she was curious as to using the castings on indoor plants..Do you know the advantage and how they're used? For instance, how many castings per plant? I've seen worm castings sold in nurseries..think HomeHarvest.com sells them..but I'm unaware of their advantage. Can you please explain?

You mention using different soils..Which mix works best? In other words, I imagine you use one mix for 'X' plants, right? And another mix with other 'X' plants..Out of all the mixes you've made up, which work best? Do you notice a difference?

Manure? Mike you're lucky it didn't burn roots? Every book I've read that discusses soil says, never use manure on house plants..it will burn roots..I believe there's also a warning on the bag..
LOL, you mention Fish Emulsion odor, what does manure smell like? LOLOL..We all know what it is..Actually, I read an article yrs ago, regarding advanced growers..the author mentioned manure, BUT was adament it can be used on indoor plants, but it should be at least 1 year old..Maybe it loses it's strength..other than that every book I've read warns not to use manure on indoor plants..Before reading these warnings, one summer I added manure to my mix..that batch was over a year old, but I used a small amunt among other mediums..I can't recall any difference, but it didn't burn roots..Luckily.

Type of soil I use..as I mentioned above, I buy the largest bags available..mix according to plant that needs repotting or fresh soil on top. For citrus I mix..All Purpose, Sand, (Builders from HD) Perlite, a few handfuls of Peat..Sometimes Charcoal..I've been looking for small bark, but all that's available are large pieces used for orchids..I'll probably order a bag online.

Because of the number of plants I have, buying small bags of soil would cost a fortune. In summer, I hunt for large, 40-50lb bags of Houseplant soil (not topsoil, but rich, black potting soil)..I also buy 40 lb bags of Peat Moss..40-50lb bags Builder's Sand, sold at Home Depot..20lb bag Pebbles. The largest Perlite available..
Ironically, I stopped in an Ace Hardware store Monday, and wouldn't you know it, they had soil for Palms and Citrus..Haven't opened it yet, but once I do, I'll see what it contains..It may work alone, but I'll probably mix other mediums..I wish it'd wasn't so much money; I'd have bought every bag in stock, but at 4.99 or 4.49 it's just a bit too much considering the number of citrus and palms that need repotting.

I feed with Citrus fertilizer 3 times a year...before finding citrus food, I used Azalea fertilizer..it worked great..One Meyer lived several years, bloomed and fruited constantly..I've thought about using Azalea food and skip Citrus..The first feeding in spring, I use Osmocote. Sprinkle and water soil..I also use Superthrive hormone and vitamin..4 drops per gallon of water..2-3 times a year, I apply Iron. I plan on adding Epsom Salts..A friend gave me her Mandarin Orange..she used large amounts of ES...the mandarin is beautiful, Mike..she also fed with, if I recall, Miracle Grow instead of Citrus fert. It's a big tree, and drinks 2 gallons of water, easily..
IMO, misting/showering is important. In summer while citrus are outdoors, I hose foliage, but winter, there's NO way I can haul each citrus upstairs to shower..Every so often, I'll attach hose to basement sink and spray, otherwise they're misted..I truly believe spraying foliage keeps insects away..

Well-draining soil is very important..and check pH every so often. Sometimes it creeps up turning alk.

Fish Emulsion kills scale..I don't know about other insects, but believe me, Mike, it works..I was told about FE from a citrus grower in Florida..she sprays citrus trees..A few winters ago, I bought an Olive tree..when it arrived, I didn't think to inspect leaves..big mistake..before I knew what was happening, scale were everywhere..not only on the olive, but neighboring citrus. Thankfully I remembered what the woman from citrus nursery told me, so I sprayed entire plant/s with FE..I swear on my life, in two days, all signs of scale were gone..Nowadays, before bringing plants in the house during autumn, every plant is sprayed w/FE..it's meant to be used as an organic fertiizer, so besides keeping scale away, it works as an organic foliar feeding..I don't know if it kills other insects, but since it's similar to insecticide oil, I'd imagine so..to be on the safe side, I mix a 16oz sprayer of water, 2-4 drops dish soap,(not Dawn) grated citrus rind and grated garlic..let it sit overnight, shake and spray..it works fantastic, no chemicals..I hate chemicals..I have birds so worry they'll fly and land on a plant, either nibble or absorb chemials through their pours..I just don't like handling it
Like you, I have other plants that attract mites..gardenia, hibiscus, coffee tree, brugmansia (a real mite magnet) scheffleras and Jasmine..But spraying keeps mites at bay..Mealy are the worse..I've yet to come up w/a concoction that kills mealy..Thankfully, I haven't found mealy on plants a long time..if I do the plant goes in the trash..Purple Passion and Musa Bananas are notorius attracting mealy..sigh

Mites wearing masks..lolol..probably..but if the odor is too much for a person, they now have an odorless type..I don't know if it works, free from odor, but it's supposed to..Believe me, Mike, I'd rather smell that fishy odor a couple days then deal w/scale..I had no idea Olive trees attraced scale..brown scale..Some people say hosing leaves knock them off, but I tried, it didn't work..those demons from hell hang on for dear life..they're a pain scratching off..and I have NO desire touching bugs..LOL..yuck.

Success in plants? Well, for one, keeping an area clean surely helps..if leaves drop, discard them..I remove yellow/brown leaves.. I think it looks awful and takes nutrients away from healthy leaves..That's just my opinion, but I firmly believe it. I can't live w/o a humidifer..I also keep 2 indoor fountains running when heat's on..Mist and shower. I do not fertilize in winter, Oct-March. If a plant is fertilized, and days are dark/short, sunless, a plant grows spindly..of course it depends where one lives..I'm talking about cold climates, zones 1-7. Fl/Ca have longer summers, so plants are dormant in a matter of weeks. 8-10?
Fresh, circulating air is important. I'll turn on the ceiling fan in the LR, (low) and every so often run a little rotating fan in the front plant room. On warm days, 55+, I crack open a window..not much, have to worry about birds catching cold, but enough I can feel air change.
Oh, it'd be great if your boss allowed you to keep your citrus at work..all that light!! Maybe you should talk to him/her..??? Since they ate YOUR fruit, why would they care if you kept plants there? Do you summer citrus outdoors? If so, tell your boss it's only a few months..LOL

What type of green house did you buy? What's size? Is it a walk in? Do you keep a fan running to circulate air?
Any artifical lighting inside?

What type of organic matter did you use? What does it consist of? Also, what type of predator bugs did you get? I know people who use Praying Mantis and Ladybugs..thought about the ladybugs myself..One winter, we had hundreds of ladybugs in the front plant room..I don't know how they got in, or why there were so many, but think they starved to death since my plants were bug free. They disappeared.
Since you don't eat the fruit, perhaps there's a rose systemic that kills thrip..I'll look around, see if I can find info on killing them..Did you find only one??? If so, perhaps it was another type of pest? I can't say since I never saw one..not that I'd recognize them, but we plant growers should be able to ID insects.

That's about it, Mike..I wish you the best, and hope you resolve the bug problem..You don't add moss on top of your soil, right?? If so, remove it, ASAP..Moss, especially sphagnum, attracts insects so fast it'll make your head spin..like Linda Blair in The Exorcist.LOL Espeically gnats.
This is the longest post I'd ever written..sorry..LOL..Toni

Hey - Has anyone used "Indoor Pharm with pure rosemary oil"? made by www.pharmsolutions.com

I'm skeptical because the last time I used it my fruit and leaves fell off (granted I had other problems).

I'm also looking to get some gardenias - are my mite problems going to multiply?

I used this plant food called "Schultz 10-15-10 Plant Food" I add five drops to a quart of H2O... What do you think of this stuff?

First of all..I want to say THANKS so much for such caring people on this thread and site..Thankyou to all....Hopefully next year, I will not have to contend with so many insects if I play my cards right this summer!

Toni.....The worm castings are explained better than I could on a site from "Dirtworks"..But I only use 10% in some of my mixes and from experience, from last years plants, I can tell you that the roots from those plants when I transplanted this fall were so white and healthy...But they could of been just healthy plants ....Who knows.
Which mix works best? I have been changing my plants gradually over to Al's mixes,,,,One has some peatmoss, and the other does not. But I have yet to transplant alot of my bigger trees, still waiting until I can put them out or for warmer weather.
I use to use Dehydrated manure and all sorts of organic soils, but I had no luck with that, which is why I am changing over to Als. In fact since I have been using his soil mix in a few of my trees, they are explouding with growth..Weird. I am still trying to get the watering down though. I am not a good judge of that yet.
Fish Emulsion....WOW,,,,Is Neptunes Harvest the same stuff..?I have lots of that!!
I used Lacewing Larvea, these tiny beetles, then Predator MITE which the company sent free to me, because they felt so bad! THose didn't work either, but I think the insects outside will do the trick. I will have to bet Praying Mantis. Maybe they call all pray my bugs away for me.. Where do you live? I am afraid that if I use the soil you are saying to try, It will probably breakdown fast, especially so where I live and stay wet to long, and that what ever sand I put into the soil will fill the air pockets where roots need air? HUM. I keep hearing not to use any sand of any sort. Your having success with sand? About my plant at work.
They were paying someone here 600 dollars a month to water their plants, then got rid of the plant people, and asked me to do it a couple of years ago. They look great. I told him if I couldn't hold some here of my own till the spring, DIE HIS WIll!!!lol.
He said, "ok" bring just a few!!!lol
I don't have a greenhouse, I have a plant room in my home. Lots of grow lights, humidity, fountains,rotating fans and so on. Want to laugh. I had a friend tell me who lives in California..WHAT THE HECK ARE YOU DOING!! Maybe that is why you got bugs...We never get humidity down here, in fact very dry air, and her Citrus are doing awsome!!RIGHTO!!
The only Organics I use in my soil are bark, and castings. Not sure if turface, crushed granite and perlite are so though..??
But my soils are very fast draining that I have been making lately until all my plants are set in this type soil.
Toni, I hope I anwered most questions. Thankyou so much for caring and sharing your knowledge. You are kind hearted. Someday when I learn to post pictures, I will show you all what they look like. My BIGGEST CONCERN use to be soil and fertilizing. Now thnaks to good people, that may be the past! Now if I can rid of these stupid PESTS for good I would be golden!! I suppose never. I am having spidermite nightmare. I even had a dream I was watching TV in that plant room, when MITEs came out of the crevice on my wood floor where they were lerking, and attacked me to suc my blood because I took their only food source and threw it outside!! Crazy ha.
Just a dream, cuz I am still going to throw them all outdoors all summer. This time I am going to treat them well with insecticide before I bring them in at summers end. Also, the next time I buy any plant from anywhere, ISOLATION ward for at least 2 weeks!!
I just ordered a small Lemon Meyer from a company 2 weeks ago, and I caught it with RED MITES!!! So I srayed it and is in isloation still!!
No opologies for a long post. As you can see, I have plenty to say too..Maybe some are amused by this thread.
Thanks Al for you SOILESS mix and than for the idea of TAPE!! WOW what a great idea!!
Take care all of you,
P.S Toni, try spraying Alchohol mixed with water on the mealybugs, that works for me!!:-).It dehydrates there out shell!
Mike

It dehydrates their outer shell.... Man my spelling is horrible! And I meant to say thanks to littlem for the tape suggestion!!!

hello, toni, i use whatever tape is close by. packing tape; scotch tape.. masking tape does not work - not enough stickiness. i find that each time i have to use a clean piece of tape and it will pick up whatever it contacts. i have even tried it on scale and it works well with getting those off the plant too. i used to use tissues or Q-tips - what happens there is that some of the scales fall into the medium and next day or so they are back on the plant again. after getting them off with the tape (i guess none of the fall) i have had to use only one application. i have used tape on spider mites too. I guess it can be used on any bugs. I have used worm castings on my plants and i think that worm castings help to get rid of some bugs but i can't remember which ones. for 4" pot i put in 1/2 teaspoon. etc.
and, mike, you're welcome.
sue