I love your orange I am partial to oranges this year and that is a beauty!!! Very nice photos. You are a good brug mommy :)
~SJN

They are all lovely but that first orange one is spectacular. I love the combination of the orange with that green center. The deep green foliage contrasts very nicely as well.
Karyn

Wow, some seedlings! They are just beautiful. Thanks for sharing your photos.

well they are all amazing!! I love the orange with the green centre.

These are amazing Brenda. The first one I just can't get over...Dont' think I've ever seen an "eyed" bloom like that on a brug. Have you ever registered any?

OMG!!! Brenda.. That orange is to die for...Absolutly beautiful!!!!!!!
Chena

Wooooowwwwww. . . .I bought double oranges to break up the colors. . .that first orange is amazing!

Sooooooo. . whan ya registering. .when ya selling. . .ummm. . .HOW MUCH?!?!? (grin)

Addict I am. . . .LOLOL

Has the double peach opened yet? I'd love to see a pic of that one also. I still can't get over that single orange with the green eye. I don't think I've ever seen a brug bloom with a contrasting eye like that in any color. That's really something.
Karyn

Thanks all, for your comments, support and appreciation! I'm not the only one thrilled about that first orange one.

Besides a small blossom, the plant is compact and more spreading. I saw two new ones that Brenda Delph has on her website at Seed Sprouts that have a nice intense orange color, also. My camera did not actually catch the intensity of the orange.

Chena, I took this photo (sorry about the lack of clarity)last night of the sdlg-- double peach in color, so far- now, don't shoot me but I left the house in such a rush this morning, I forgot to check on it!I wll post photo tomorrow. I'm not sure if this one is miss-tagged-
I have that it is a cross of Butterfly x Cypress Gardens!

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A little more clarity.

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And this is a dbl.seedling, cross Genevieve X Kleine Aap #20/ Olympic Flame, yet to open- check back in a few days!

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Brenda B

Do let us all know when the first one is ready, I'm sure it will be a big hit!! WOW!

This is the Butterfly x Cypress Gardens which is a double- there is some question that this is the correct cross but I was careful to keep good records. ?????????????

But she does look more like she is from some of the other crosses I grew out this winter.

Anyway, she's a beauty.

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Another shot up the skirts

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WOW, Butterfly x Cypress Gardens or whatever the cross! The photos are great. Thanks for sharing your brugs.

You really have some beautiful crosses. That one is gorgeous as well.
Karyn

gottahosta, I'd question that cross of Butterfly x Cypress Gardens as neither of them listed are doubles? She is really pretty!! Maybe a bee got in there first?

I don't know- I bought the seeds last December.

I thought the mommy brug had to be a double to produce doubles- am I mis-informed???

gottahosta, Butterfly is a mid shade single corolla tube and Cypress Garden is a white single corolla tube so there is a mix up on the seeds or a something else pollinated it.
It's awsome in color and shape. It is also my understanding that the mommy brug must be a double to also produce the double. If you check out the ABADS brugmansia gallery you can look up each of the name brugmansia there.

Karma so there's no way that a single mommy plant can produce a double even if it was pollinated by a double? That's good to know. What about variegated brugs? Can you get a variegated baby from a variegated mommy and a standard pollinator? Is it possible for seeds from a variegated plant to produce a variegated baby at all or does the variegation arise from a mutation?
Karyn

Brenda B,

Congrats on all of the blooms from the seedlings. My favorite is the Inca Sun x L'Amour, because of the orange color. LOL :)

I also have to agree with Karma about the Butterfly X Cypress Gardens cross. Butterfly has no double genes in its background as far as I know. Cypress Gardens has a lot of versicolor genes in it, and those genes are expressed in this cross.

From what I understand about breeding for doubles from Monika; you can use a double as either the pod or pollen parent to try to get a double seedling. The chances for success are much greater when the pod parent is a double. You still can get a double from a pollen parent, but the chances are not as good as when the pod parent is the double.

gottahosta I gotta tell you, those are magnificent, of course especially the orange/w Green WOW.
I also like the white one you said you didn't think had a good blossom yet...

I know these are precious, and you may have plans for these, however, I will ask, beg plead----- Is there any way in hell I could get a cutting or two??

(oxmix grovels on his knees , looking trepidly up at gottahosta.)

Oxmyx--Email me.

So, I understand all that was said above about Genetics.

Where did the first doubles come from? What cross out in the wild produced a double.

Was it a mutation?

Thanks for all the very nice comments about the above brug hybrids. I'm very happy to have such nice blossoms and plants from other people's hybridizing efforts. Thanks to you who hybridize!!

Brenda B

Oh, I found my order receipt from Brend Delph, of Seed Sprout, and the Butterfly x Cypress Gardens are seeds she hybridized over 2005 season.

Need to check with her on this cross.

Brenda B

Brenda,That Double is incredible!!!It looks infinitely bettor up close-I so enjoyed the tour of your Garden!!!You have an amazing Brug collection.That double is an award winning brug!It has so many superb qualities-vigorous growth,healthy foliage,a heavy bloomer.The blooms have a superb form-Nice scent.I was blown away after seeing it in person.Now....any names picked out yet????

Thanks davidwv, I was a little fuzzy about the possible X double and really didn't want to make a statement to the fact of a 50-50%, I couldn't remember Monika's wording. It's been a while since I was at ABADS.
karyn1, you know I've been working with Brugs & Datura and crossing of variegations which produced the albino. I again this year got a couple of crosses which we will see how they turn out and I'm still learning with the help of an expert Dat grower. My understanding is variegations come from mutations but again we are trying to unprove that with the crosses we are trying.

Wow, Brenda!!! Every one is gorgeous!!!Karyn,great questions!!! Thanks, Karma & David for the hybridizing info.
Theresa

WOW!!! Brenda... Those are just AWSOME!!!!!You are doing a wonderful job.....As pretty as that double is I still just Love the first one...Thanks so much for sharing your photos...I hope you will take more!
Chena

Gottahosta,
According to the book, Brugmansia and Datura: Angel's Trumpets and Thorn Apples, by Ulike and Hans-Georg Preissel, "Almost all double-floweing Brugmansia can be traced back to B. x candida f. plena 'TuTu".
Candida is a hybrid of B. aurea x B. versicolor. Both aurea and versicolor wild species started out as single flowers as far as I have read, so I'm guessing some mutation must have occured somewhere along the way?

Here is a little research I did.

The parents of Butterfly are Rothkirch x Ocre
Ocre is a B. x candida (B. aurea x versicolor)
Rothkirch is an aurea ?
So if B.x candida are known to throw doubles that could be the answer?

Seems logical..I have no idea I am just guessing..based on what I looked up. I looked on BGI family tree and didn't see anything listed as parents for cypress gardens but if it has versicolor...who knows. Anyone else have any ideas.
~Lenette

Wow, Lenette

That is very detailed info for one side of the family for this seedling here- are you saying in so many words that Butterfly, due to Ocre, with candida in it's background, may throw a double? When I contacted the hybridizer earlier this week, I seem to remember her saying that Cypress Gardens is a versicolor.

Thanks, you sure came up with some good information- you can tell I'm a real novice at this- I just started growing brugs last year seriously (altho I raised them during the 90's), but grew them to mostly to shade my hostas, which I am hybridizing. Ask me about hybridizing hostas- I'm a bit more knowledgeable in that department. lol!

So, I may send cuttings out to trial, if this looks worthwhile to the hybridizer and so far she seems favorable. This is pretty exciting!!

Brenda B

gottahosta,
I have no clue myself, but based on what I found it seems like it could be so. I would check this out with a good hybridizer to see what they think. Maybe Monika or Brenda D. (from whom you got the seeds)or someone knows? I suppose the only real way to know if your plant has a double gene would be to test it in a lab. I don't know where to do that-probably costs a fortune too.
Or possibly cross yours with a wildform single that does not have any doubles in their past but that could be a long process lol! esp since some single genes are very dominant!
I posted this on DG under your post as well to see if anyone there has any ideas or something they can add. Maybe we can get a more definite answer..

Hey! it sure it pretty though, and some hybridizers don't always know or share what their brugs are crossed with when they register them. It sure does help though for research purposes. Good luck with your baby.

Okay since now I am curious I looked a little more, and it gets a little more confusing:
There are apparently many varieties of candida:
B x candida 'Ocre' - single yellow
B x candida 'f. plena 'TuTu' -double white
B x candida 'f.plena 'Pefection-double pink
B x candida 'f. variegata 'Maya' -variegated leaves and single apricot flowers.
B x candida 'Rosea' -single light pink
etc. etc.
I haven't found anything that says that either versicolor or aurea individually, have a double wildform species in their background. But who knows?

Butterfly's parent Ocre is a single yellow but it is still an aurea x versicolor (candida).
Candida (aurea x versicolor)crosses gave way to the other doubles of the f.plenas. Sooo.. back to the same place lol- who knows? I guess it isn't impossible.
More confusion is that Rothkirch is an aurea and if Cypress Gardens has versicolor genes then that is more Candida qualities...

SJN, anything is possible when hybridizers don't pollinate when then the time is right before anything else gets into the corolla tube, the anthers aren't remove and there could have the error for mix up when collecting or packaging seeds. When you list the parents, one should look at the parents and singles just down make doubles so when you adopt out and parenting folks post photos, there are so much room for errors. We are all human!!

Wow, I just starting out with brugs and am in love with them. Yours are all spectacular. You could make a fortune with that orange with the green center.

Eeesh, I'm confused now. . .mommy. . .bees. . .daddy. . .no double. . .sooo. . .Karyn, where does the PAINT BRUSH come into play?!?!? (sarcastic grin)

You guys are way outta my league. Just tell me what color! I love them all! (grin)

Brenda, what awesome brugs..I vote for the first one and knock down dead gorgeous....thanks for posting the pictures and all the info being shared..Judy

karma, I agree with that statement about *anything* can happen between pollination and having someone grow out the seeds or even if someone grows thier own seeds. Many times I've opened a flower to find that thrips or some other bug have already gotten in there and who knows where else they went before or after they appeared in that particular flower lol. So the odds are good that or some other mix-up could have happened.
But...
If only doubles can make doubles then where is the original double?
Until someone finds a wild natural double via fossil or live, whether it is a versicolor, aurea, or other species there still remains a question. If there is no double then it had to mutate from a single -some way...
I remember when I took my first biology course, they talked about: there are some traits that are expressed physically (phenotype). Some genes are only found in your genetic makeup (DNA)-(genotype). So only looking at the parents wont give you an answer. Granparents and others can come into play as well.
I wonder about this too:
What other flowers are double? Hibiscus, roses, etc. and how did they get that way? Via people, I'm guessing.
Does anyone know what the first double flower was (of any species?)

I have no idea but would assume that a genetic mutation showed up that was appealing and then people just started cross breeding the mutants that had traits that they liked. I think that the original carnations were pink from the Middle East and I think that tulips originated in Iran and were small red flowers with pointed petals. People started cross breeding them and look at all the varieties we have now. I got lost on the brug talk when the aurea x versicolor x candidia .... was discussed. It made my brain hurt. lol Just show me pics of pretty flowers and I'm a happy camper.
Karyn

Karyn

I'm with you-just show me the pretty flowers........... altho, if I had a warm greenhouse to winter brugs over in, I might get into hybridizing. Now I do the next best thing, grows the fruits (seeds) of other folk's efforts.

I kinda understand was is said about genetics in the previous posts, but I really do much better if I can see it in a drawing or a chart.

You know, I promised a photo of the last seedling I was watching open several days ago. It is the one under the 'Geneviere x Olympic Flame" thread, and I thought it was turning peachy- alas, no, just a little peachy on the one double blossom on this seedling- all the rest are triple white blossoms. She is pretty .....just not peachy! (sigh)

Brenda B

sultry, you are correct in your research. I do know that the hybridizer was working with that knowledge (as far as creating a "new" double from whatever mix of single x candida, aurea, and versicolor parents. I say "whatever mix" because I don't specifically remember what I read about the subject) in mind when she was making this cross and some others. She basically was trying to recreate the process creating an original double from "scratch".

It looks like she might have been successful. I'd certainly rather believe that than throw dirt on a successful and respected hybridizer. I wonder if Monika had done this cross, would the same thing have been said about careless hybridizing?

Also, yes, doubles can come from crosses where either the pod or pollen parent is a double. It is believed that the chances are better for a double if the pod parent is the double, but I don't know if that has been proven.

Thanks, Greener Thumbs, for supporting this hybridizer.

I did email her and she is super careful about the whole process of pollination- she explained the process to me from start-to-finish, resulting in seedpod(s).

She also told me she was hybridizing for this kind of result, a double from two single blooming parents, altho her explaination is more detailed, and that she has been doing so for years. I just wish, in a way, that this particular seed had been one she grew in her nursery.
But I got it, in a packet of seeds, and I love the results- this is a really lovely brug seedling. Unfortunately, I don't understand the hybridizing implicatons of this at all, really, but I want to congratulate the originator for a job well done- her perserverance paid off!

Brenda B

Brenda,
Those are just beautiful, the double is so gorgeous!
What a wonderful job you are doing with them.

gottahosta, I'm not saying I don't support her and I do understand what she is doing, congrats for her work to creat it from a single.
Thanks sultry_jasmine_night and greener_thumbs for refreshing some thoughts I had forgotten. This will lead me on another path while hybridizing. I thought it was taboo it copy another's research?