which turface is it, I use MVP, and use it straight out of the bag no screening. The particle size is about half the size of aquarium gravel.

I bought Turface MVP from an Orchid supply place...seems the largest pieces are 1/8th ". A fair amount are 1/8" or close to it, but the largest pieces are 1/8th". Is that the way it should be? Thank you...

yep thats the right stuff. You can screen out the dust and very fine particles if you like. I dont waste my time with it though.

mksmth,

Please be careful...If you don't screen out the dust and fine particles, you will find that you containers will hold a perched water table somewhere down into the pot, and the chances for overwatering increase and rot. That was my huge mistake when I first starting using the gritty mix, at least for us northerners, and I lost a few trees not screening..Please be careful...This is why straining is so stressed with this mix..

Now you really have to depend on them wooden dowels, and watch for lots of rain..

The bigger the partcles, the less worrying you will deal with...

Ps..I usally use a bug screen that leaves behind all the 1/8th and half bebe sizes.....Great stuff!!

Mike

I was floored at how much dust came out of the crushed granite! I'm closely watching that Carquest product discussion on the Container Forum, it looks promising. While the particles are larger than Turface, apparently it's still in a good size range. I think I'm going to try it.

Thank you mksmth, I was taken aback by the Turface and thought something was wrong! Thank you Mike (again)! I didn't think to wash or screen the perlite and hope there isn't a problem down the road. The water coming out the bottom of the pot was white with perlite dust....

Is a bug screen a regular window screen? Are the openings 1/8th inch? I don't have a screen, so I'm using a large wire mesh strainer like you'd use for cooking and I'm rinsing everything under water. I can't believe the muddy grit coming off the granite, perlite, pumice and Turface. The opening size on the strainer might be just slightly smaller than ideal, not sure. Can you buy screens, or do you make them?

I use window screen, which is 1/16 of an inch.
I also use a 3/8 inch plastic nursery flat to screen out large particles.

Josh

Yes, as Josh says...

I forgot about the 1/16 inch..I for the life of me couldn't remember the other size..lol

All the sizes of my turface fall between 1/16 and 1/8 size.

Believe me, by the time you have screened your turface, you'll have probably have use for about half the bag for the gritty mix...lol

Yes I also rinse off the granite, and sift my perlite too....The key is to get rid of the dust and fine particles..You are using the "developer" grit size right?

Hi Josh!!!

I just pulled out my magnifying glass and measured the openings in my strainer - it's 1/16th". Um, not sure what you mean about the grit?

What size grit, or granite do you have?

Just making sure you are all set with that...:-)

Mike

Manderin1........

SO SORRY...iT IS THE BB size (grower size grit or #2 cherrystone) I get the best results.

GROWERS SIZE GRIT!!!

yep thats the right stuff. You can screen out the dust and very fine particles if you like. I dont waste my time with it though.

weird I left my browser window open on the screen after you post something and I hit refresh instead of back and it reposted my post, oh well.

@ mike

i should clarify my post. I havent got to the bottom of the bag yet where all the smaller pieces have settled. And I do wash what I use before it goes into the mix to remove the dust and also pre-soak the turface. So I guess by default it is somewhat already screened. lol

thanks for the heads up though.

Your more than welcome..

You sound like you have it all together and your trees are going to thank you a million times over!

Happy growing and post pics later..

Mike..:-)

Uh oh, I have the crushed granite size that repotme.com sent me, and that I just finished mixing with the turface and bark! LOL!
You guys know what size a BB is but I've never seen one. Based on what size I think it is, I think I'm OK. Depending on which direction I'm measuring, between 1/8 and 3/8"?

I screened the Turface and lost about 35-40% of it. Definitely didn't have enough. Hope I can find some locally this weekend!

Sweet..

Manderin1, is there anyway you can take a close up picture of it and post it..I would love to see it..

MIke

mandarin

not sure we you live but go to the turface website and find a dealer. I get mine from Ewing irrigation, they are national and should be in all major markets. I get a 50# bag for $9.

Thanks mksmth, I checked at the Turface website - have two possible places for Turface MVP, one sells to "the trade". I'll see if they'll make an exception. That's a great deal at Ewing! Ewing covers a lot of states but apparently not NY, NJ or CT. I live on Long Island

So, question on the size of the Turface - we screen out anything smaller than 1/16" and anything larger than....? BTW, I looked it up, "BB" is actually a size measurement for shot? There's size B, BB, and BBB - who knew? BB's are approximately .17 to .18 inch, plastic ones can go to .25 inch. So half BB size would range 1/8th inch or slightly less. Learn something new everyday! Thanks again! Mary

OK, now I see the problem. I knew the bark was supposed to be 1/8 to 1/4". In my head, I thought everything was supposed to be that size - there's my error. So I believed the Turface was too small, and I now see the grit I bought was Turkey grit (should have been chicken grit). Mistakes. Turface at 1/16 - 1/8" is exactly right. Now my grit is wrong.
Aaggghhh!

Lolololo..

I am soooo proud of you all, and yet at the same time I am dying laughing here Manderin1....lol

You will get it just right...

You guys are great..

MIke

Amazing...3 ingredients (count them - 3!) generates hundreds of postings? You have size ranges, recommended brand(s), sifting, cleaning, pictures. Regardless, you'll find a boatload of questions including inquiries about changes or substitutions (including my own). Further, some answers to excellent, relevant questions are scattered both within and between different Forums. Several postings about mistakes. Perhaps it takes more work than necessary to get a handle on this 3 ingredient recipe? Is there an "ingredient fact summary" (I don't mean a list of where to buy them) or addendum to the original, comprehensive memo?

Hmmm, but just when I feel like I've gotten a handle on this gritty mix, looks I have to switch.

First, my retailer said they gave me developer's grit, not turkey grit. Still wrong but smaller at 3/16" to 5/16". Not realizing, I had potted my new tree. Good news: I didn't have enough to repot the other 4 trees. Bad news: the pot is kinda heavy for me. I have to switch to something lighter.

It does seem difficult at first; but once the ingredients are assembled, and once you've been working with them for a while, you'll really come to love gritty mixes (bark and grit-based).

Perlite to lighten the pot.

Josh

I think you're right Josh. I tried the 5:1:1 recipe today (peat moss, not pumice). It's light, attractive and has a nice feel but the winds here are going to play frisbee with my pot. Nice for indoor plants though!

I hesitate to share that I placed a screen repair-patch in the bottom of the pot. After planting, I used the hose to settle the medium around the roots but I couldn't tell that it wasn't draining until the tree started floating up and fell over! I had to perform an emergency screen-ectomy and all is well now (whew!). Adventures in learning soil making....

Anyway, the tree I planted in the grit-based mix isn't showing any stress yet, which surprised me. The tree's stable in the pot, the pot is stable on the ground. I like it. Perlite it is, but I may need to hold a bit more moisture somehow? And use a wick?

I searched and found a post with recommendations for using perlite in a gritty mix.

My gritty mix is Bark, Perlite, and Pumice.
Caveat: it is *not* Al's Gritty Mix, but it is very similar. The primary difference
is in the water-retention characteristics of the Pumice versus Turface - Turface holds more
moisture. In any gritty mix, Drainage is king.

Josh

Hello Josh and Manderin1..:-)

Josh , I use the mix you make too, along the "Als" mixes, and a few other amended ones..
It all depends what I ahve on hand, and if I am too lazy to go pick up more supplies..
In fact, I just made one lastnight with 5 parts bark, 1/2 crushed granite, "all I had left", 1/2 cup of perlite, 1/2 cup turface, all I had left, and 1/2 pumice...lol. The mix has a nice color though and great texture.

It looks beautiful...I figure the more inorganic ingredients put together,all strained of dust and fine particles, it will still last me a long time...

I even made a BIG batch of the 5.1.1 mix and did a lot of tranplantings for my friends...My brother couldn't wait to come over lastnight and get his gardenia out of the compacted peatmoss that was killing it..

It is amazing to see the smile on their faces when they see the water drain out very well, the color of the soilless mixes. It is funny to see the shock on their faces when they see all my plants basking in health without soil or moss and watch as their plants reach out and thank them from the pits of death....

Have a great day everyone...

We will have to do an updated picture of our trees very soon for the month of June...maybe one of us can start a thread on pictures of our trees for the month of June..:-)

Mike:-):-)

Mandarin, I didn't read all the threads here, but yeah Turface has a very large percentage of "fines", especially if you sift with the slightly larger #10 mesh screen. Using that screen, which is what Tapla uses, yields 60% waste (each bag can differ). This all depends on how well (long) you sift. Yes -- best case is 50% usable product with this screen.

If you sift with Aluminum insect screen, you get a more solid 60%+ usable.

Use Fiberglass insect screen, if you're in a hotter area, and can afford smaller particles or don't mind a (potential) small perched water table (not all that bad in my hot area). Many of them have rectangular shaped mesh, with dimension of 1/32 x 1/16 inch instead of the aluminum being square shaped 1/16. So you it won't filter as much and you retain more particles. I use this screen a lot.

Honestly, I buy the Napa product as it has larger particles. I've tried many of the products and documented my findings -- based on how much the product cost and the usable yield. I'll post it now. If you're interested, look for a thread titled

"Waste screening Turface,Axis,Playball,FloorDry & Cost"

The gritty mix should be considered as a whole. I use a slightly smaller grit than gran-i-grit. Therefore it holds a bit more water in the macro pore space, but still doesn't perch. If you use much smaller bark particles, the same thing happens.

If pumice holds less water than Turface, but (per my search) perlite holds more water than granite, maybe that helps to even things out?

In case others are also looking for a lighter weight mix, my search revealed that Al clearly prefers granite but in one case he suggested a perlite mix "might" be 3 parts bark, 4 parts perlite and 2 parts Turface. So there's Josh's mix (above); or you can try Al's modified mix (but I haven't found any feedback from anyone who has tried it); the 5:1:1 is also lighter (careful in wind if it gets dry) and in another thread Mike suggested a modified 5:1:1 using pumice instead of peat. Lol, I may have to try one on each tree!

Hi cebury - looking forward to your thread, haven't found it yet... I see that you use smaller grit while also retaining smaller particles in the floor dry - the sizes remain complimentary and there is less waste. Unfortunately I live in a cold area and want to avoid PWT as much as possible. But interested in your thread and will continue looking. I didn't realize that so much waste was to be expected until I posted the question! There's NAPA Auto parts close by, they don't carry the Floor Dry but I'm sure they'd order it for me. Thank you!

I'm finally working with Turface....
It looks wonderful, especially when wet.

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Josh

Great Josh!

Do you like it better than the red pumice?

I like both.....

Wait till you strain the smaller particles out...lol

Mike

Hey, Mike!
I still think the red Pumice is more visually striking, and it accents red plant stems,
brown trunks, terra cotta pots, and bark. I strained and rinsed some Turface, Pumice, and
Bark for my 'Hummel's Sunset' Jade, and the combination is very attractive. Natural, subdued
tones are my favorite.

Josh

They are mine too Josh..
Especially agaisnt the 'Hummel's Sunset jade!
I love the "red" pumice..Hint, hint...:-) :-)

Mike...:-)