Entling, I have visited Chicago several times and am not sure when I will be back, but be assured I will check it out when I do return. If you live nearby or plan a visit, take pictures and post them pretty please!!!

Entling, I've not heard of this plant, and go to CBG frequently. Can you tell me where it is exactly? Is it in the open evaluation beds, or the other testing gardens with the brick bathroom?

Michael - I was told that the plant is in the Pullman Evaluation Beds near the tiarellas. Next time you go, ask at Plant Information. I got my info over the phone. I am not going to CBG this summer because the construction on Lake Cook Road by Rte.53 has made a traffic nightmare of all the east-west roads between here & there. (Much easier for me to get to the Morton Arboretum this year.):(
I hope you find the plant & take can get photos to post. According to CBG website, it is in bloom now.

Mike if you get pictures, make sure to post them please!!

A little more in depth web search reveals at the link below that the name is a synonym for viticella Södertälje. Though still not available in the U.S. to my knowledge, at least now it's identified.

Here is a link that might be useful: Search this page for Grandiflora sanguinea

Thanks Mike. I searched originally on another thread that entling had on this same clematis and didn't come across any references to it being the same as Sodertalje. Great hunting!! Solves a lot of mystery for me, although I thought I originally searched on COTW and can't remember what I found there. I know that the site is down now because someone tried to hack the site and it is down for repairs.

I found it for sale in california. Here is a link.
I have never oredered from here so I don't have any input as to their service and shipping.
Tracy

Here is a link that might be useful: Chalk Hill Clematis

Tracy, Chalk Hill tends to be higher priced than say Brushwood. They also charge a per order handling charge and shipping which makes ordering one clematis from them prohibitively expensive unless you are prepared to pay it, which I did this spring. The more clematis you order, the less the overall cost is for your shipment so buying several clematis is a better deal.

Chalk Hill switched to longer and thinner plant containers over the past few years to make shipping more competitively priced. They used to ship biodegradable containers that you could plant directly in the ground upon receipt. One problem I have experienced with the new containers is that the roots of the plant never fill them and the rootball tends to fall apart when you remove it. I wish they would allow the plants to grow out more and allow the roots to fill the containers before shipping or switch to smaller containers where the roots would have more of a tendency to fill them and hold the root ball together and cost less to ship. I ordered Peveril Peach this spring and the roots filled no more than half the container. When I removed the plant from the container, the root ball fell apart and I was left with a plant with roots and little soil attached to it.

According to "An Illustrated Encyclopedia of Clematis" by Toomey & Leeds, Clematis 'Sodertalje' is a
"[s]elected seedling of C. 'Grandiflora Sanguinea.'"

Nckvilledudes, Very good information on ordering from Chalk Hill. Thank you. I am always leary about ordering plants online. I have always preferred to see what I am getting. I realize this limits my selection by doing this so I am paying strong attention to suggestions of growers to buy from on this forum for when I am ready to make distinct clem purchases. How has the Peveril Peach done so far for you?

Tracy, Peveril Peach is surviving and actually had a few blooms on it. If the plant had not had the soil fall away from its roots upon removal from the pot, I am sure it would have done much better than is has done otherwise. Hopefully this fall's cooler temps. will allow it to establish itself better and next year it will be better for it.

I did not mean to discourage you from ordering from any mail order nursery. The thing is that in the future, before I attempt to remove any plant from its pot, I will check the bottom holes to see if there are roots present. If not, then the plant will be allowed to grow out some before I attemtpt to remove it! I haven't had this issue in the past with plants from Chalk Hill and wonder if perhaps someone forgot to check on the status of this cultivar before allowing it to be shipped. I have never had this issue with plants I have ordered from Brushwood or Silver Star Vinery in the past. Of course, Debbie at Silver Star Vinery removes her plants from their pots to ship so you can see the size of the rootball and roots.

In the following picture, Perveril Peach is the smaller of the two blooms. I was attempting to show its size comparing it to a bloom from the Duchess of Albany!

{{gwi:598798}}

That is interesting Entling. If Sodertalje' is a selected seedling of 'Grandiflora Sanguinea, then the two are not one and the same. Usually a selected seedling means that the plant had some desirable characteristics that made it better in some way. I wonder what the parentage of 'Grandiflora Sanguinea' is? If it is a hybrid, then any seedling from it can't rightly be called 'Grandiflora Sanguinea' since hybrids don't come true from seed. The questions continue!

Oh, the mystery deepens. I wish COTW were up!

I've had the same problems with Chalk Hills new soil mix/pots. The mix is so crumbly that even trying to cut off the pot meant what was inside fell apart. Though I haven't said anything to them, the last shipment included plants with less than complete root systems as well, though some were great.

Micheal, you and I are not the only ones to comment on Chalk Hill plants. I have been in email conversations with several different people about the same thing.

Looked up Grandiflora Sanguinea on COTW to refresh my memory about what I had found and there is not much info about it recorded at all.

Then looked up Sodertalje where is basically repeated that "it is a seedling of viticella Grandiflora Sanguinea raised by Magnus Johnson of Sweden in 1952. It is named after the location of Mr. Johnson's nursery." It does go on to say that "this cultivar became mixed up, at some stage, being sold as Grandiflora Sanguinea."

Hmm, still no clarification other than the fact that Grandiflora Sanguinea probably is not commercially available and if it is there would be no way to know if it was what is claimed unless there is some distinguishing characteristic about it that made Magnus Johnson choose it that could be used as an identifier.

Here is a link that might be useful: Grandiflora Sanguinea

So, I wonder what the Chicago Botanic Garden has, Grandiflora Sanguinea or Sodertalje? I wonder if anyone there now knows the source of their plant & is aware of the confusion. It's an interesting little mystery.

I agree Entling. It is always interesting when situations like this come up. In your other thread, I believe you said that the plant at the CBG was provided by Evison or some other clematis guru perhaps? If we could get a picture of its flower and compare it to that of Sodertalje perhaps there might be some clarification. Then again, maybe not!