This Bayer I posted below IS RECOMMENDED for Outdoor containerized plants, but NOT for citrus. I did use it on my container citrus because I jumped the gun and saw that it can be safely used on some fruit and nut trees, so I thought citrus was okay(then I later found out it has NOT been approved for Citrus). So I called Bayer and they told me just not to eat the fruit for one year. Since I only had a couple of flowers at the time, I just removed them when they set fruit. At this time it has completely GOTTEN RID of all my leaftminers. My tree is back to healthy leaves again. I will just not let it fruit from one year of the date I applied it...This particular Bayer is only to be used on Outdoor Containers...NOT INDOORS!

here is the link of the Bayer Advance that is recommended for OUTDOOR CONTAINER PLANTS.Product Info is on the right

I also wanted to say that this stuff works great on outdoor Flowers, I had a gardenia that was infested with aphids, and used the Bayer and it is completely gone and haven't returned. I use it on my Hoyas, and some of my succulents(outdoors).

Leaf miners have taught me real good this year, my first year with young citrus trees. Gardenweb has been my other teacher. I pondered using Imidicloprid which is systemic and really not good to feed a food tree, though it does kill leaf miners. My nursery supplier however informed me that all citrus trees that leave his nursery are required by the USDA to be sprayed with it so as not to distribute pests.
Orthene is a better solution if you find yourself in a mess of them as I was earlier this year. Neem oil will do fine as a maintenance spray once any established colony has been diminished.
In fruit bearing years I would suggest using Orthene very early in the spring and following with neem oil later on if necessary. As the roots of a young tree become better established, leaf miners tend to be more of just a nuisance than a catastrophe.

I don't think anyone mentioned this, but there is a predatory wasp that kills leafminers. I took the "behind the seeds" tour of The Land attraction at Disney World. The woman leading the tour said that in Florida these have been released intentionally for that purpose.

Is there a source to buy these wasps?

Imidicloprid is legalized laboratory research on humans at this point and even though it does work in a timely fashion, who really knows how long residual materials remain in the plant? It also does not prevent further infestations of leaf miners. The long term effects of systemically applied pesticides is not an exact science, it's only an educated guess, or more correctly, a practice.
I've had much sucess with Neem Oil in wet weather because it doesn't wash off in the rain. What really discourages the litte buggers is Orthene, starting early and repeated applications.
Is there an "orthene against Leafminers fan" out there who knows how often it can be applied to young citrus leaves without damaging them? I'm two years away from letting them bear fruit. The miners get probably 50% of all new leaves on the Persian Lime and the Lemon. Grapefruit and two oranges seem to resist the little pests here ok. It seems like leaf miners are an epidemic this year. I hope it's not a trend. Jeff Sterling
Micanopy,Fla.

I use one teaspoon of 100% neem per quart, with about another teaspoon of dishsoap. As I spray, I keep the bottle agitated, as the neem tends to separate away from the water quickly. Watch your trees for growth flushes, and keep hitting them until the leaves harden off in about a week to ten days. You won't get them all, but your trees will be better-looking by an order of magnitude.

Leaf miners are bad here, and will also attack tomato plants, watermelon vines, and I've even seen their trails on the native smilax vines...which are nasty and tough.

In my experience, neem DOES wash off after a moderate rain, so it needs to be re-applied according to the weather. Since the oil can be damaging to leaves if applied during the day (burns leaves), spray in the evening or at night to give it time to dry. I have also noted leaf drop on my satsuma, although not on my other citrus, which includes blood oranges, grapefruit, navel, kumquat, and Key lime.

-Bruce C.

Thanks Bruce C. I've been using neem at 1 tsp per gallon only. Gonna step it up.

Here's a site I find educational regarding LM'ers.

http://www.ipm.ucdavis.edu/PMG/PESTNOTES/pn74137.html

It explains the benefits and disadvantages of using chemicals insecticides. Please take a moment to read. Toni

Toni,

Thanks so much for posting that link...it was very informative and I wanted to note that the article mentioned the use of Bayer Advance Insect Control...here is a quote from the article...This is what I used on my young potted Dwarf Meyer Lemon, and it really WORKS!!

"(Bayer Advanced 12-Month Tree and Shrub Insect Control concentrate) applied to the ground for young trees or to the soil of potted citrus provides the longest period of control (1-3 months). "

Hey Pug,
I read the artical a few times in the past, then before posting, browsed through it again. I saw the part about Bayer. So Pug, are you saying it killed off or minimized LM'ers (from your citrus) or quoting from the article?
There's very little info regarding LMer's. Have you noticed?
Not to change the subject, but I wonder when Fl's government is going to stop the citrus ban..Have you heard any recent news? What are they waiting for? It saddens me to think about nursery people who depend on shipping citrus to other states and can't. Not legally anyway. The urnings are their bred and butter. I don't understand. Or maybe they know something we don't. In the meantime, people have bills, they have to eat/feed their children/pets. I don't get it. Toni

Hey Toni,

Yes I used Bayer Advanced(the one recommended for Potted Outdoor) formula on my Dwarf Lemon and my Kumquat potted trees. 95% of the leaves of both my citrus were infected with leafminers. I have been battling LM'rs for almost two years. I have used almost everything that I could find out there, Citrus Oils, Sprays, homemade and store bought, neem oil, Organocide, etc. NOTHING worked for me. So when I saw the Bayer and saw that it was supposed to kill leafminers I thought its the only one I haven't used. I know there are a lot of controvery about using it on citrus, but I was so frustrated with the health of the tree(tree looked so unhealthy and scraggly) I was willing to give up eating the fruits for a year just to get the tree HEALTHY looking again!! I have 3 or 4 neighbors that have lemons, so I can get all I need. I just wanted to get my potted trees taken care of, so it would look nice and healthy again...

By the way I can't speak for the whole state of FL. But I know in my town, the ban has been lifted. It was lifted appx. two and a half years ago? That's how long I've had mime. I lived in Miami then and it was just lifted there, so chances are the BAN has been lifted State wide? We can buy Citrus trees here in all the nurseries and the big box stores, THANK GOODNESS!! I did miss having them when they were banned!!

Here's a couple of Pics I took today, notice how much healthier the leaves and new growths are...its bloomed for the first time in almost two years, it never bloomed while I had leafminers. I owe it to the Bayer...I am NOT telling people to use it, all I'm saying is its worked great for me.

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Pug, your citrus are beautiful..Your camera really picks up detail, too. They're definately doing great..
I wish you had a pic before using Bayer..You know, Before and After..? So you're saying, citrus with LM'er, stop blooming/fruiting?
What about earth-grown citrus? When a citrus is planted in the ground, contracts this bug, does the tree stop producing?
That'd be a pain. How does one spray a mature tree?
How is Bayer applied? Is it sprayed on foliage? If so, how does one spray the top of a 15-20' tree? Sheesh...
What size pot is your citrus in? Also, what type of citrus is it?
Do the instructions specify to use Bayer on earth grown trees, and not potted? If so, I wonder why..do you know the reason? I guess if you use 1/2 or 1/4 dossage, there shouldn't be any problems. When did you last apply Bayer?
LM'er's baffle me. When they attack citrus, (early stages) and leaf folds, can't leaf/ves be unfolded and bugs removed? It'd be a lot of work, but still...
How many people pluck scale and mealy one by one..they use cotton balls dipped in Rubbing Alcohol. Wouldn't it be the same?

Pug, maybe I didn't explain correctly about the ban. As far as I know, Florida nureries were always allowed to sell citrus to others who live in Fl. The problem was/is selling/shipping out of state.
There's a couple threads here on Gw regarding shipping out of Fl. An Ebay seller was shipping citrus outside of Fl. I don't know what happened to him, probably got fined, but the girl who bought one citrus tree was visited by government employees..her citrus was confiscated. How about that?
I talk to two citrus nursery owners in Fl. They never mentoned the ban being over..In fact, their sites state they cannot ship outside of Fl. I can't wait until it's over. I think it's terrible this ban has been going on so long..if trees are Canker-Free. It doesn't make sense, then again, anytime the government is involved, nothing makes sense..LOL. Am I allowed to say that? Should I watch my back? Isn't that 'Freedom of Speech?" lol..

Sarah, I can't believe all the insecticides you've tried. Wow!!! Thank goodness they didn't harm your trees. There has to be something that kills those darn bugs. What is the main ingredient in Bayer? I should check it out.
Well, again your citrus looks fantastic..Toni

Thanks Toni,

You can also use this Bayer for outside Potted and in-ground trees...although it doesn't specify Citrus on their package, one of the reasons I say there is controversy on using this systemic. It list other fruit trees, but not citrus.

The ban that was lifted two and a half years ago that I was talking about is on selling and buying Citrus trees within the state of FL. Used to be we coudn't buy and Nurseries weren't allowed to sell any citrus at all. Now I am not sure about Ag. laws and restrictions on shipping Citrus outside FL, that's a whole other matter, which I know nothing about,LOL...By the way I didn't use all those insecticides at the same time, but over almost 2 year period...nothing worked!

I posted a link to the Bayer Advance several post above, but I posted it again below, if you want to take a look at it...

I have a picture of my Kumquat tree with the affected Lminer leaves, you can see the brownish, curled, mishapen leaves...What I did was cut off all the leaves that were affected and applied the Bayer, so that the tree could start over from scratch. When the new leaves emerged, no leafminers. I'm sure I will have to apply it again when new growths appear in a few months...I am mostly growing these for ornamental anyways and the lovely sweet flowers.

I applied the Bayer on my Dwarf Myer Lemon in March, that's the one with all the blooms, and I just applied it to my Kumquat appx. 6 weeks ago...

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Dear gentle people. Bayer is Imidicloprid. It helps allow very young, and especially potted trees the ability to establish roots in spite of pests such as leafminers. That's why nursery's are required by the USDA here in Florida to treat with it before they are sold.
But be aware of three things, Bayer(Imidicloprid) does not prevent leaf miners if you stop using it. It's residual effects as residue in the fruit are unknown by anyone really and how many years does it take a systemic insecticide to reach a point where your not poisoning the people who eat your fruit? For ornamental potted citrus
trees that need to look perfect, go ahead and use Bayer but if you have a conscience, don't feed the fruit to anyone but yourself. Leafminers can be controlled with sometimes huge losses in new leaves stimulated by pruning, but the plants wont die from them.
Imidicloprid is a systemic which is sprayed into the soil around the plant. Spray it on yor plant and soil, eat the fruit and report back in ten years how you feel. I for one will be listening. Jeff Sterling Micanopy,Fla.

Hi Jeff, that is exactly what I am growing my 2 citrus trees for "Ornamental Purposes". I will let it flower since I like the smell of citrus in bloom, and I will pick the fruit off and would NEVER give it to anyone to eat... said. Most of my neighbors have citrus trees in the ground and give me fruits anytime I want, most of them just end up in the ground and they are more than happy to share them, so I don't need to grow it for that reason. By the way I do know that Bayer does NOT prevent Lminers, I quoted the paragraph from the article, that says it only lasts 1-3 months. Since my goal for growing these 2 treees is purely for aesthetic reasons and for the blooms is the reason I use this product. All I am saying when my tree was infected with LM, it never bloomed, or the new growths just shriveled up and turned brown. I also mentioned several times on my posts that I AM NOT TELLING ANYONE TO USE THIS PRODUCT, only that it worked for me...

Thanks for your post

Two things I'd like to add:

Severe infestations of leaf miners WILL lead to the demise of a small tree, especially those that are limited in resources like those in pots. These are prone to abnormal wet/dry cycles, too much heat to the roots from sun baking the pot, too cold in the winter, etc. Add in extreme leaf loss, and you could have a dead tree if it's small.

Also, as scientists try to zero in on the troubles domestic honey bees are having, there is a suspicion that tiny amounts of Imidicloprid in the pollen may be collected and carried back to a hive hundreds or thousands of times over, enough to cause death or abnormal behavior. Imidicloprid is a frequently-used pesticide across the country, and we don't know all the possible outcomes of its continued use. If anything, time your use of it such that flowering is over and the tree has several months to work through the chemical's half-life. Even if the tree is an ornamental, it still will attract honeybees.

I have used Imidicloprid in the past to eliminate citrus scale, which defies just about any other treatment. I noticed no extraordinary effect on leaf miners. It's my opinion that the greatest success with leaf miners is topical, not systemic.

-Bruce

Check into a new product recently registered in some states called 'movento'
Aphids
Asian citrus psyllid
California red scale
Citrus leafminer
Citrus thrips
Florida red scale
Mealybugs
Whiteflies
are the pests on the label.
It only has a 1 day post harvest interval. So you can harvest fruit 1 day after treatment. I love it when people talk about chemicals being so dangerous to use on fruit you plan on eating. I guess they don't realize how many years of testing are required before a product can get released for use on bearing fruit trees. Now if the label states for use on non-bearing fruit trees then that is a different story.

"I guess they don't realize how many years of testing are required before a product can get released for use on bearing fruit trees."

One has only to recall the issues with DDT, or potential harmful effects of Vytorin and Zetia, to recognize that chemicals and pharmaceuticals can slip through the cracks of rigorous testing. There are significant warnings on the label of Imidicloprid, especially its use around children and pets. I have even heard of the death of pets after it has been applied, although that is most likely the result of direct ingestion and not absorption of diluted amounts through vegetable matter.

It's quite possible that Imidicloprid is perfectly safe on fruit trees meant for consumption, and Bayer is just trying to protect themselves against litigation. But given how powerful this chemical is, I, for one, do not want to be a guinea pig. With natural alternatives for controlling leaf miner, it's just not worth the risk.

I have used Imidicloprid myself, but understand how it works, and what would not represent prudent use. I would never use it for control of leaf miner, as that would require regular applications of it every few weeks, which could possibly result in significant levels being established within fruit. And I would definitely not recommend consuming fruit grown in a container which had had Imidicloprid applied within the year.

Everyone looking to this thread for a bit of guidance will make their own judgments, but I would hope that all comments can remain constructive.

-Bruce

Check out Orthene. It's not a systemic and can be reapplied in seven days if necessary due to the fact it washes off in rains. I'm told that the life cycle of the larvae is six weeks. I believe that Orthene has helped.
I think that going after the mother moth another way might be one approach to curbing the population. These mothers are tiny, some with a wingspan of less than an eigth of an inch. Perhaps bug zappers near to the young trees. I'm always looking for ways to control the little pests that can do so much damage.

FYI, depending upon what part of the country you're from, the leaf miners you have may be larva from a moth, beetle, or fly. "Leaf miner" is a catch-all term covering larva that have a similar destructive behavior. Perhaps this is why some methods have varying degrees of reported success.

-Bruce

The leaf miners in my yard are probably the white moth's offspring as I see them fly away when I apply insecticide. Under each infected leaf after about six weeks there is an obvious "exit hole", where you can see where the larvae have moved on. I am only a beginner at this problem and don't pretend to be any sort of authority.
Bruce, do you know the name of the moth or moths that breed these tiny little worms? Where's an entomologist when you need one?
I suspect that a broad range of methods might be required to tame this beast. Jeff Sterling. Micanopy, Fla.

Pug, are the brown leaves caused from LM'ers or Bayer?
I have to ask this question once again..I've never seen LM,(thank God) so I have no idea what they look like.
For small or potted citrus, can't these suckers be washed off..each indivual leaf? Or wiped like scale?
I'm not talking about a mature 20' tree now..that'd be impossible.
Can someone please explain how these pests live inside a leaf?

As for chemicals, I don't use sprays of any type on edibles..including tomatoes, green pepper, etc. Are my veggies attacked..Yep, they are..but if I grow a group of tomatoes, there are more than enough to can an entire winter. I'm talking 2 rows, about 14 plants.
It's bad enough, when we buy store-bought fruit, we have no idea what they've been sprayed with. I dont even want to know. Next time you buy fresh fruit, check for a white residue. What is it??? Water? Soap? Chemicals!!!???
Anything that will kill an insect can harm a human. I don't care what the labels say..this includes mosquito sprays, like OFF..I've seen people drench their children with this stuff!!

It's true there have been studies, but how many other products were studied throughout the years and found harmful? Anyone watch daytime tv? There's one lawyer after another trying to drum up clients..if you've taken this med or that med, and had this symptom to death, call us. I'm sure medication, for instance, Zyprexa, was studied..I'm certain people, used as guinea pigs had taken Zyprexa without bad results..Now it's said, it can cause coma and death. That's just one example. There's thousands.
That Fabreze commercial drives me up the wall..The woman is spraying Febreze inside the fridge, around veggies and fruit..On the couch. Inside a play pen where a baby will sit..What the *&^%^?
Amazingly, people have gotten by for thousands/millions of years without chemicals and managed to survive..Amazing isn't it???
What next?
Sorry, I had to vent. But when it's said this stuff has been studied, well, it's just a bunch of hooey or someone has stock in the product. Toni

Hey Toni,

The thing is I don't actually see these little pain in the
**&&** little monsters. By the time its over all you see is brown trails, torn,wrinkled, damanged, brown spots all over the new leaves... I posted a link below that kind of explains what they do and what they look like, but I've never see them, only the damage that they do.

Yes, the brown leaves were caused by the LMiners.

Toni, off topic, wish us luck here in FL, most of our state in under a Tropical Storm/Hurricane Watch. Not Good...

Here's a picture I got on the internet, you can see what they do to the leaves. Only mine were way worse than that!

http://www.lsuagcenter.com/mcms/webtools/image.aspx?Watermark=ZABlAGYAYQB1AGwAdAA=&ResourcePath=/NR/rdonlyres/DAA036D2-CAF9-4798-A213-A5427A2F7023/19031/Citrusleafminer.jpgcolor>;

Hi Jeff --

The moth leaf miner is Phyllocnistis citrella. The fly species is Amauromyza maculosa, also found in Florida. There is also Odontopus calceatus, the yellow poplar weevil, and Caloptilia azalella, the azalea leaf miner. All of these species may infect citrus, although the fly and weevils are "blotch" mines as opposed to winding trail-type mines.

I have yet to spot one of the adults, and used to be mystified why they are so common here, since I'm the only person with a handful of citrus trees for miles. I started becoming more observant, and began noticing mines on several different species of native plants (in addition to my tomatoes and watermelons!). I suspect I probably have Phyllocnistis citrella, although the photos I've found on the web of the damage the other species cause is too poor to eliminate that possibility. (And, sometimes the mines I've seen don't follow specific patterns.) Azaleas are common around here, although, again, I've never seen anything on my citrus trees resembling an adult pest.

I usually spray at night, wearing a headlamp. Under those conditions, anything flying away from the trees catches the light from the lamp and is easily seen. The only insects I've ever noticed while doing this are occasional leafhoppers and the odd roach here and there. The only thing I can figure is that the adult goes elsewhere at night, and only visits the trees to lay eggs during the day. For anyone who has ever tried to learn more about this annoying pest, information is sorely lacking!!

I used to squish the tiny yellow larva, but there's just too many if you allow them to get that far, and you probably cause more cellular damage with your fingers than the larva does by itself. It always amazes me when I see the beautiful trees for sale at Lowe's and Home Depot! They must be absolutely loaded with Imidacloprid...

-Bruce

DDT was long before all the new regulations for extensive testing before release. As far as daytime tv there are always plenty of leeches out there trying to make a buck off of people's perceived problems. And yes people have gotten by for thousands of years (millions?not quite) without all these chemicals. But what was their lifespan. The lifespan has only increased as more chemical compounds have been used. Below is a link with good info on the Citrus Leaf Miner. If you are finding mines on plants other than citrus or if you are finding it on the fruit of citrus then you may be dealing with the Peel Miner instead.

Important to note that citrus peelminer is not an important pest in Florida (or Texas)...yet. In Florida it has been confirmed in the Tampa area, but is not widespread.

It causes the greatest damage in California.

-Bruce

Sticky traps are working great for me. I decided to give them a try and started using them this past July. I ordered enough to put three in each tree. Now that I know how well they work, I've got to order a whole lot more and look into getting some of this Tanglefoot stuff to make my own sticky traps/cards.
The cards are suppose to last one season, but they are so full of these miner/moths and other insects that I need to replace the cards. I hang the cards inside the canopy at varying levels. I still have leaf miners but am amazed at all the new flushes that aren't ruined. The trap I have are called 'Sticky Aphid Whitefly Trap' Here is some information on the card: Non Poisonous,protect plants from Whiteflies, Aphids, Thrips, Leafminers, gnats, fruitflies, leafhoppers and froghoppers are attracted to these traps as well as other flying insects.

Peel trap apart, reverse fold, sticky side out. Hang with supplied twist-tie from branch or stake at plant level. Place traps every seven feet or at end of each row. For badly infested plant, shake it gently and flies will swarm a few momnets before they fly to your nearby trap like iron filings to a magnet!

Lasts all season, even in rain, or until completely coated with insects or dust.

Brass, where did you buy them from? Thanks...

There will be some work done on an aerosol glue-type spray that can be sprayed directly onto tree. That will aide in trapping insects. It is still not known how it might affect the trees growth but stay tuned.

Pug,
The yellow sticky traps were from Golden Harvest Organics. ghorganics.com A pack of 5 is $4.25, but they charge $8 for shipping. BUT I've decided to buy the sticky stuff (from another source) so I can make my own. Over time I should save myself a bundle. I'll get some neighbors to pitch in to pay for the 25# container. I just called the place and was told it cost $140.99. The place is called Tangelfoot, and the stuff I want is what they call the 'Insect Trap Coating'. It's the same paste that is on those yellow sticky traps. The lady I talked to said that there is a 3 1/2 gallon container that contains mineral spirits and it is brushed onto the cards. Tanglefoot has some interesting products.

I was just outside to hang some more traps. I have to hurry up and get more -- I could probably use at least six on just one tree.

This is another supplier of the yellow traps or the goop to make your own. Might just be a cheaper source.

I also noticed on the Seabright website they advertise 'custom blended lures in adhesive'. I know that there is a very effective pheromone for luring the CLM into traps. So if that was mixed into the stick-em it would be that much more effective.

alternating use of neem oil and spinosad every 6-8 days for a month or so will work. the CLM life cycle is about three weeks. you cant kill the larvae inside the leaf, so you've got to hit the plant for at least a month to kill off/control the multiple generations of CLM that are already on the plant once you've noticed the damage. Even so, CLM will never kill a healthy or established plant. they'll just make it ugly.

Pug, I've been watching the Weather Channel. Oh God in Heaven. Yesterday, (don't know which city) water levels were so high people had to get around in boats.
How many months do floods/canes last? In other words, what month do they start and when is the worse start/end?

The sites you and Citrusenthusiastic posted are really informative. For one thing, I had no idea LM is a moth. We have a zillion moths here in IL alone, so I can imagine trying to spot one particular moth in Fl..Sheesh.
They're sure gross looking little creaures.
98% of my citrus were shipped from Fl. The newest citrus are, hmm, when did the canker ban prohibit Fl sellers from shipping citrus out of state? Right before shipping was stopped. Remaining citrus are 7-8+ yrs old. If my citrus weren't attacked throughout the years, is there a chance eggs have been hidden? Also, would LM'er live in cold climates, especially in winter??? Do they prefer a certain environment? Is there something that attracts them to citrus? Flowers/fruit?
Thanks to you guys, we who live out of LM'er states would know what to look for, if by chance one of our trees contracted this little creature out of hell.
If I lived in Ca, Tx or Fl, I'd hose foliage daily. Inspect for curling leaves and trail markings. Any suspicious spotting.

In comparison, is there any difference between LM'er and the commom moth? What attracts moths to begin with? Bird seed does, for sure. Believe me, we have birds..those darn moths hatch 12 months per year. Light attracts moths.
What about those hanging traps people 'used?' years ago?

Citrus, thanks for the article. Another moth to worry about! I didn't have time to read the entire site, it's the type that takes forever to scroll. Know what I mean?
Okay, so I exagerated one-million years..LOL..
Unless history really does repeat itself..maybe it will start over..Will country and western someday be novel? Rock and Roll? Long dresses, mini skirts? Manual type writers, computers? Chopped wood, microwaves?
It's just possible this all happened before, some time this planet evolved/created? Whatever???

Oh Yellow Sticky Traps are the best. Some people vow they trap Fungus Gnats..I can't say, but they do attract and capture Whitefly. Thakfully, I only had to buy and use once, when most tropicals, (a little over 200) contracted this dreadful insect.
I purchased traps at www.gardensalive.com I even resorted to buying a can of Tanglefoot, 12.99 per can plus shipping, planned on making my own traps if WF returned, which they didn't..Thankfully.
Ebay has the best deals..Traps are fresh. They capture hundreds of insects. I had no idea they worked on LM'ers, but for those of you who live in places these creatures reside, it's good to know, and worth a try.
Tanglefoot is one of the strongest glues around, and like Brass said, Non-Toxic. I hope these traps are the answer.

I really do wish everyone luck.. I'm sure the government or whomever explains what needs to be done to keep safe. What really sucks is you guys have to go through this every year!!! In comparison, how bad is Fey compared to previous canes? Or is it too soon to tell?

Pug, before a storm, do your Pugs show indication something's 'just not right?'

Brass, do you have mature, earth-grown citrus trees? Toni

PS, you're all in my prayers.

Toni, thanks!! Hurricanes last from June 1st to Nov.30,6 months...with the Peak bet. late Aug to early Sept.(Not there yet) No, my Pug has no idea when a storm is coming...(Not the brightest, LOL) Funny, when I lived in CA many years ago, I had a Chihuahua that barked and got very nervous right before an earthquake, funny how some dogs are very sensitive to certain things...

We're fine now and very GLAD Fay is gone!! Thanks for the prayers and kind wishes...

Pug, I guess some animals are more sensitive than others..I've read stories about people in CA who have birds..just before a quake, the birds get jumpy..they 'sense' something is about to happen. Same applies to canes. Maybe birds can detect things cats and dogs don't or they're a bit more 'psychic' to these events.
Fay's gone..good..So what happens from now till Nov? Also, does that mean you can bring plants back out? Toni

Hey Toni,

Plants went out a day or two after the center of the storm and the winds died down some in my yard...As for your question on what happens between now and Nov? Your guess is as good as mine, LOL...Hope for the best and pray we don't get another one this year. Guaranteed I will be watching the weather channel daily!!

I bring the plants in whenever I know there is going to be severe weather(if I'm home), back outside when its over.

Thanks to everyone who contibutes to this site. Every perspective helps in my own personal education no matter what. Here there is total war when it comes to leafminers as they're a real challenge to control after they get out of control. Upon recommendation from ya'll I've added Spinosad and sticky traps to my arsenal. I do think that Orthene and Neem oil do work but I need all the options I can find. Maybe spraying can be done more freqently as in once a day, I'm not sure. Jeff Sterling, Micanopy.

Toni,
My yard has nine citrus trees. We planted the trees about five years ago and they all were about 5 or so feet high when first planted here. I'm just north of Jacksonville FL -- about 45 minutes away. We get frost and I protect the canopies with bed sheets attached with cloths pins. The first year one bed sheet would cover the canopies; now, each tree needs three sheets for good coverage.

It has always been scary for me -- as I'm always so afraid that something or other will be the cause of their demise before I can get smart about doing all the right things. Thanks for asking.
Brass

The Citrus Leafminer create openings that allow entry of a killer called Citrus Canker.

There was mention about the systemic insecticide called Imidaclopid, used as a drench and/or a foliar application, that will kill a Leaf Miner. While this is not to be used when or where there would be blossoms that a bee would be attracted to, there are some deadly diseases carried by certain insects for which there is no cure -- only management. So the damage gets done, but insect dies and cannot reproduce --that's the management part. (By the way, this stuff would be responsible for the collapse of bee colonies.)

I wonder how long it will be before the orchards will be under some kind of tent.

There is the Glassy-winged Sharpshooter that carries a baterum that causes a disease called Pierce's disease. There is the Asian Citrus Psyllid that transmits a disease commonly known as Greening. A problem here is that all one of these insects has to do is to poke into one single leaf and the tree will eventually die or not bear fruit (there are some variables), but at least the insect will die and not be around to multiply. -- there's the management/prevention/aspect/idea.

Do you think I could sell citrus trees? LOL

jeffisonto, just to let you know, Othene is systemic, same as Orthinex and Isotox. There are many formulations of Bayer advanced out there, One contains merit, another systemic that I've used commercially. It is our best hope right now for the Fig Whitefly that is devastating the ficus here in south Florida
just sprayed my citrus with it, says its good for citrus on my lable

Jeff,
I'm trying to find the site that is about all the attributes of compost tea that uses a fish tank aerator.

There is a company called Plant Food Systems that has a product called K-Phite. It is a copper base systemic funcicide for soil drench and foliar spray. It is suppose to be used: begin as early in the spring when new flush is about to emerge and continued thru the fall about every 10 days to 2 weeks. It defends and restores plants by activating plant auto immune and defensive system. I thought it was very interesting reading. I think their products are fairly expensive.

The distributor I found in my area was very generous with his knowledge and about products.

is this what you are looking for Brass?

Yes, that's the one! Thanks!
I thought the article was very informative and easy to read about something scientific -- what was especially interesting to me was learning about the difference between fungi-dominated compost good for mulching around trees (citrus too) and vegetables, and bacteria-dominated compost useful to prevent foliar disease (foliar application).

Also, for containing the compost tea -- somewhere out there I saw a plastic barrel being used with this aeriation technique using what was called a pickle barrel. Cost $50. It had a tight cover and a spicket at the bottom.

Looks like this might be getting off-topic when I started posting about the leafminer's connection to the citrus canker.
Brass

Brass, I saw the article on compost tea and it reminded me of collecting cow piles into a 55 gallon barrel with a removeable lid, adding water and making "Cow Tea" for my vegetable garden. It doesn't take very long to break down. Not only does this generate green leaves with a foliar spray but also feeds through the roots. Rates right up there with Miracle Grow.
Do you think that developing a more healthy leaf through foliar fertilization might help deter the leaf miners rather than just give them something more delicious to chew on? I wonder. Jeff

Jeff,
Or make the leaves so delicious that the leaf miners will go nuts. Right now I'm thinking that if I can just spray enough garlic, fish emulsion and red pepper on the trees maybe they'll stay away. (After attracting them to the yellow sticky traps) LOL

Great info above - thank you everyone!

Not sure if anyone has noticed, but the formulation for Bayer Tree and Shrub has changed this year. It is now the same chemical Admire Pro used last year, our friend Imidicloprid.

Admire Pro (another Bayer product) is citrus safe, but Tree and Shrub is not? (using the same chemical). Probably some minor EPA guidelines that make it so Bayer cannot say it is Citrus safe, I dunno.

I'll be soaking my trees shortly with it as the leaf miners will have a total field day turning my orchard into a buffet if I do not.

-Frank

I have a potted Meyer Lemon. It comes inside every winter, and this year as well as some scale and possibly spider mite, something is eating up the leaves. Like bites taken out. What IS THAT!?

Thanks-

I planted about a dozen citrus several years ago (satsuma, navel, and marrs orange). I had problems with leafminer damage on new flushes of growth. I tried every over the counter pesticide available, but had little if any luck.
I recently planted 200 brown select satsumas and was worried about both the leafminer and psyllid hurting the young growth. I spoke with several other growers and they recommend using a soil drench of admire pro, and then rotating between movento and provado. I will use the admire pro in late april and see how effective it is. Other satsuma growers swear by it.