I'm not an expert, by any means, but I do know that there has been some controversy about Sweet Autumn's correct botanical name, and it has been changed at least once since I've been growing clematis. What I grow as Sweet Autumn clematis is hardy at least to zone 4 or 5 for me, it grows 30' per year, starting from the ground up every spring, and is a hard prune (right down to about 18" first thing every year). It gets huge, trying and mostly succeeding to eat my deck stairs year after year.

Thanks for the response. I would think that wonderful book by Toomey would be the final say. I think I got what you have. I want to grow one of them up a large honey suckle bush. Which I think is kind of ugly anyway. I hope it dont choke trees like wistreia.....

This issue has been floating around for years and unfortunately, old (bad) habits are hard to break. C. paniculata is an evergreen species originating from New Zealand and Toomey is quite correct in noting that it is a rather tender species - most sources caution it is not reliably frost hardy, so even a zone 7 is pretty generous. And it is extremely uncommon in the trade here in the US - I buy plants for a large retail nursery and I have NEVER seen it offered for sale. It is rather distinct in that it has much larger flowers than SAC and when mature, rather unique, dramatically lobed foliage. An older name for this species is C. indivisia, meaning heavily lobed. The texture of the leaves is also much heavier and glossier than that of SAC and it blooms earlier. You can see somewhat hardier examples of similar appearance in any of the x cartmanii hybrids - paniculata is a parent of these plants. These too are not terrifically hardy - zone 7 is probably about right for them.

How SAC came to be so widely known and sold as C. paniculata is a bit of mystery........maybe by the same gardening widgits who decided that Pelargoniums were in fact Geraniums :-) SAC is an Asian native and is C. terniflora (formerly C. maximowicziana - nice they changed THAT, what a mouthful!!). Not evergreen, no lobed foliage, much smaller flowers and a different bloom season. Essentially a larger version of C. flammula, to which it is closely related.

Unfortunately you will still see SAC marketed and sold under the incorrect name more often than not, but it is not C. paniculata.

Thankyou. That about says it all. I wonder what clematis wayside is selling as terniflora? They say it gets 3' high and 6' wide. And thats correct. I know I bought one about 5 years ago, and it is 3'h 6'w with no smell. Will wonders never c.

Filix, you piqued my curiosity (a 3' clematis is a rarity anyway you look at it), so I went to Wayside's website to check it out. The info they had for terniflora looked pretty good to me, as did the photo. A fragrant, white, late season bloomer, reaching 30'! Might the info you gleaned have been a typo?

filix, while I am all for planting sweet autumn clematis anywhere and everywhere, a honeysuckle "bush" in zone 5 may well be something worth cutting down of it's l. tatarica or l. maackii.

Both my spring and fall catalogs say 3'h 6'. Must be a typo. But my clematis only grew 3' in 5 years. It must have read it! lol. Right below it they say their jackmani grows 8'h 3'w that doesn't sound right.....I dont know what kind of honey suckle bushes I have. But its an old house and they have been there a while.

The sweet autumn clematis that I bought from wayside gardens is not doing what it should. Its 4 or 5 years old now. It has never had any fragrence and the blooms are almost half the size of the two other terniflora's I bought localy.And those smell great! The plant has never got any higher than 3'H and about 6'W. I called them today and the told me to put some super phosphate 0-46-0 On them now. Any thoughts? Thankyou very much.

My Clematis I purchased from Wayside were delivered this week. I purchased one Sweet Autumn part number 44008 and two Jackmanii part number 43151 and was very pleased with the size of plants I received. The sweet autumn states depth: crown 2" below soil, color white, spacing 5-10 feet apart and soil neutral,rich/moist,well drained. location top in sun/ roots in shade/ Height 10-20 feet vine/
bloom time late summer-early fall / group III. I potted them all in 3 gal size pots for the winter and will place them on the sunny south side of the house during the winter and early next spring I plan to plant the three on a trellis with the sweet autumn in the middle. I have a Dr. rupple and a Jackmanii I purchased this past spring from Lowes and omg they are beautiful with at least 8 to 10 blooms each right now. I also purchased 2 ramona and 2 sprinkles in march and potted them up in 3 gal pots,I can't remember where I got them from but they were ordered on line. The ramona's currently are in full bloom with one current having 9 blooms, I did pinch the vines down once during the summer and they came back doubling in vine growth in no time. But the sprinkles are much slower to grow but does have 2 blooms each. I had heard the sprinkles would do that and i'm finding that to be true. I hope once the sprinkles are a couple years old they out grow that. Sandy