It sounds like you did almost everything right, except possibly storing seeds in the refridgerator in paper envelopes. Once upon a time it would not have been a problem, but with todays self defrosting models you have dried the seeds to death in the paper envelopes. You can dehydrate things quite nicely and in a hurry in todays models. In the future put them in plastic before putting them into cold storage.

You mention them drying for 3 to 6 seeks, this is a good thing in my opinion because the seeds are well dried that way. I made the mistake of transfering fresh seeds to plastic ziplocs on years and the results were not very pretty. I had quite a few sprout, mould, and die because I skipped the drying process. On the other hand dry seeds will take longer to germinate since they need to rehydrate. I don't soak seeds, but I plant them in pots and keep them moist until I have germination. DO NOT use peat pots they dry out too fast, every surface of the acts as a wick.

Fresh seed will normaly germinate faster than seed that has been dried well and stored. I have had good germination in seed that was 5 years old, but it did not germinate quickly.

I plant between 1500 and 3000 seeds each year, and I see a wide margin in germination. I have had seed germinate in as few as 7 days, and in more than 60! Both of those numbers are extremes, normally 14 to 21 days is more the norm. I have noticed that older seeds take longer to germinate, I think it is because they are drier, even if they are stored in ziploc bags, they still continue to lose moisture. Patience is the key, I once left some pots where no germination had occured sit over the winter, and the following spring I was rewarded with a few seedlings. Another time I planted a second group of seeds in a pot I had already used and was convinced that nothing was going to grow in the first seeds were Tets, the second Dips, in about 2 weeks I had 8 seedlings in a pot that I had planted 5 seeds in. I am just guessing but that post might not have been getting enough water the first time around.

63 degrees is a little cold, I do think heat and/or more time would have made a difference.

I guess the key is to not give up too quickly

I had a germination rate of 97.7% by following the following recommended steps: 1) air-drying my seeds from 5-7 days; 2) refrigerating them in a solution of distilled water and hydrogen peroxide (1/2 gallon water:6 tbsp. peroxide) for three weeks; 3) removing them from refrigeration and placing them in total darkness in a warm closet. In five days, some were already sprouting.

I checked them daily for many weeks. All but seven eventually sprouted.

The seven seeds that did not sprout were put back in fresh solution and re-refrigerated in late fall. One seed sprouted in the refrigerator. I planted it in a cup of Miracle Grow Seed Starter on Feb. 1, and it finally emerged this past week. It is growing by leaps and bounds. Yesterday it was 3" high, today 3.25" with secondary leaves beginning to grow -- I really believe the warmth and darkness of the closet made the difference. It didn't seem that this last seed was ever going to grow, until I moved the cup to a warmer spot. Even then, it took almost a week to see green leaves emerging.

Since I don't give up easily, I put the other six back in the fridge for now.

I owe that germination rate success to the on-line instructions from Louise and Bobby James of Cedarthorn Gardens, and others here at GW, especially whoever said to put them in a dark closet while being soaked. My only contribution is to tell you that some seeds take a long time to germinate, and not to give up on them.

This year, I'm making one change. For the winter, I dry-refrigerated all my seeds in plastic ziplock bags after drying them. On Feb. 1, I plsced them all in solution and returned them to the fridge for six weeks, instead of three. On March 15, they will be moved to a warm cupboard or closet. Because some of them have one dormant parent, I think they may need additional time for refrigerated soaking.

Nancy

I have had tremendous results (consistent She said after collecting, she dries them for 24 hours, then puts them into plastic bags and into the fridge until she sells them- that means the seeds I purchased were in refrigeration mid-Aug until Jan/Feb.

Seeds I purchased from other venders were obviously drier and not only slower germination but lower numbers of germination.

I've been able to get a few of these stubborn seeds to germinate after putting them back into the fridge and then soaking them a second or third time. Each fridge -> soak cycle has produced 1-2 more germinations on the most difficult cross (I now have 6 of 15 germinations from a cross that I started working with in Jan). 2 crossed that each had 1 stubborn seed were completed this week after going back into the fridge just once. I put them into the germination closet for 3 wks and if they don't sprout, then back into the fridge for 1-2 wks, then back to 3 wks germination closet, and so on. I drain out the water solution when they go into the fridge cycle.

I did find germination was faster in a warmer, dark closet but don't know that the number of germinations increased.

All but 1 of my crosses are Tet.

Hope that helps.

berrytea4me,
I'm interested in knowing where that person is. I have tried just drying them for 24 hours with disastorous results.

It doesn't matter how fast a seed germinates, just that it does. I'll pass on all the playing around, I usually get about 95% to germinate, and I suspect the other 5% is seed that was just no good. Every year I plant some that I really know is no goood, but I'm hopefull I'll get a seedling or two out of it.

Next year it will go in the ground in November. I have seen the results, and I am convinced that it is the best way for me to go.

I don't understand the rationale for drying seeds. Many of the pods I harvest have loose seeds in them. I can see no advantage in drying that seed. Sometimes the pod is a little green and I have to physically detach the seed from the pod. These seeds I think should be dried and allow the broken area to callous over, but I think 24 hours is sufficient.
So the first step in processing today's seeds for me, is to bag yesterday's. My germination rates are very satisfactory.
Ed

Bambi_too,
The seller is in Kentucky.

I'm betting that local humidity is a factor too. I have no idea what humidity is like in Kentucky or Ohio.

I'm in high desert here and would minimize drying time to keep things from turning to dust. Here I might even put the damp paper towel in the bags with them during refrigeration.

If your area is higher humidity you may need to dry them longer to prevent molding/etc. as you noted.

I think it would be helpful for me to see side by side pictures of seeds that are too dry, too damp, and those that are "just right". It's the condition of the seeds that is the real key, IMHO. I should have taken pix early this year as I could clearly see the difference in the seeds from the different vendors...of course I was just too excited about getting started with growing them :)

It gets really humid here in August when I am harvesting seeds, that is exactly why I asked, and why I think I need to make sure my seed is well dries before putting it in plastic. It is not unusual for me to find greminated seeds in the pods when I am out collecting them. I know that if I left newly collected seeds in plastic bags they would germinate with no additional moisture, I have seen it in seeds I have purchased that were not properly dried to be stored.

Ed, They store better, and longer if they are dried well. I am sure you can plant them right out of the pod, and they will germinate just fine. The key to storage is cold and dry.

Ed, I agree with bambi. In areas of high humidity, it is often necessary to dry seeds for two or three days. If you don't, you get sprouting and mold in those refrigerated packages. Seeds from my earliest pods ripening can be dried in only 24 hours, but most of those ripening in July and August need a couple of days to dry thoroughly. The seeds that dry the longest need more time to rehydrate and germinate. Most of my seeds take a week to three weeks to germinate.

Debra

BTW, Bambi_too,
I don't really like all this mucking and fussing around either. It's more of a learning/research project for me this year since it's my first time growing dl from seed. I want to make sure I understand the process, the factors that impact it, what affects the seedlings growth, etc. before I start dabbing pollen on my own. I learn best by doing.

Since I don't have a greenhouse or much room inside for seedlings, I may try wintersowing the dl seeds next year. I'm trying that for the first time with other seeds this year. Kind of depends on how much seed I'm able to harvest and since next season will be my first time with that I don't know yet what to expect for rates of pods setting & seeds per pod. I'm sure it takes some skill/practice to recognize when a flower is most receptive, etc.

I do agree drying the seeds will help if you intend to store them, as drying reduces moisture which inhibits germination. Maybe drying does help if you over winter to plant in the spring. Here we usually try to plant seeds in August-September of the year we harvest.

I do have to grin when you talk of high humidity in Ohio and Tennessee. You apparently have never been to Houston! ;0)
Ed