No seriously, the McKenzie packages are colour coded into different groups, and all the "Early Starters" have a purple band and say to "start indoors 6-8 weeks before last frost". It was the same directions as my Roma tomatoes so I thought they should be planted now. Oh well I certainly do live & learn. LOL. The package was only $1.69 and yes I did plant it all. I'll buy more if they get all funny. Maybe I will stuff them under my broad spectrum lights and they won't bolt. (another living and learning LOL) Thanks for the heads up anyway Sharon. :)

Oh yeah and when I see your Lobelia cardinalis I will be jealous :

Hi Al

I, she says guiltily, bought a few seed packs from the rack when I was out getting supplies - one of which was Asarina barclaiana from Thompson & Morgan. I was wondering about this one, too. The T&M package states:

'Sow on the surface of the compost from late winter to early spring in a good seed raising compost.'

So, does that translate to mid-March to mid-April?

I also found this link, which may or may not be useful but indicates to me that you are absolutely right. This link says Apr-May in a warm greenhouse.

The last thing I want to do is start planting vines too early. I made that mistake last year and had thunbergia tangled with cardinal climber. Neither did very well after I 'untangled' them (with scissors!).
Looking at my records, I planted the thunbergia on March 19. I think I will be doing all of my vines about the end of March beginning of April this year. Unless I find some research on the ones that I have indicating that they should be done earlier.

In total contradiction to that, however, I do have Cobaea soaking at present and will plant it tomorrow. But, that is on Mary's advice above and I'm already a month later than her posting. Mary, how is it doing?

Shauna

Here is a link that might be useful: Asarina scandens

Hi Shauna,

The 7 year old Cobaea seed (I bought it in 1998 and never used it) from Mr. Fothergills germinated very well for me and I don't think I soaked it. It is growing very slowly but it could be because I have it in an area (my solarium)that is only 10 to 15 degrees. It's doing fine but I can't say the same for everything else. I have alot of problems this year with white mold (puffy cottony stuff) on the soil even before the seed germinates. Could it be because it's too cold in the room? I moved some trays into a warmer area and even though I used No Damp spray, some of the seedlings damped off immediately which made me hesitate to put them in a warmer area. I lost all the Corydalis seeds that I'd purchased from Secret Seeds in the UK. They were supposed need a 60 day warm period followed by a cold period and my intent was to winter sow them afterwards and that's why I had them inside.

By the way, the Asarina should really be started in early March because if you start too soon you'll have a tangling mess as you described. The seed is sometimes stubborn to germinate.

My Stokes order came yesterday. My 500 impatient seeds are back ordered apparently. :-( Hopefully they will follow quickly.

Last evening I sowed discaria, petunias, and 3 kinds lupin seeds that I had soaking.

This year I am sowing some stuff right in the 2 1/2 inch and 4 inch pots.....and puting in the zip bag propagator....so there should be less transplanting....just some thinning. Of course some things will still be sowed in the bowls and transplanted into paks or pots. Also instead of using the plastic markers...I'm using painters green tape on each container and writing on this. Hoping that this will work better and won't fade. I am also marking the sowing date on each label....have never done that before.

Hopefully my Vesey's seed will come soon.

Sierra

Shauna, a few years ago I direct sowed Cobaea scandens outside, and it took a little while to germinate and a little while more to get going... but when it did it really covered my fence with beautiful leaves. Too bad it didn't get a chance to flower. I don't think you will be sorry that you started it a little early. (I hope!) BTW I am not being facetious, the leaves really were worth growing on their own.

Oh no, Mary, that's terrible. Have you got a fan blowing on them? I had a bit of fluffy mold forming last year and then I readjusted my fan so that it was blowing more directly on the seedlings (not windy - just aimed down from the greenhouse ceiling instead of across it) and the mold went away.

Sharon, how is the Cyperus eragrostis ÂWind Dancer doing? I haven't planted mine yet.

So far:

Wave petunias
Cobaea
Datura 'Double golden Queen'
Nierembergia 'Purple Robe'
Nierembergia 'Blue Mountain'
Dichondra 'Silver Falls' (hopefully, I can keep this one fairly small for awhile)
Passiflora quadrangularis

Shauna

Totally agreeing with Gil on the Cobaea! I started some in March or April last year and I didn't get blooms on the vine at all. OK, last year was cold & lousy here for summer and more things didn't bloom that otherwise should have. BUT I was thrilled in the autumn when the leaves turned a gorgeous burgundy. I am definately growing them again this year even if all I get are leaves!

Thanks to all. I've got it started now and hopefully it will not take over my greenhouse. I planted all 25 seeds.

Actually, upon checking, I planted another vine recommending an earlier start, too. Mina lobata 'Exotic Love'. Anyone ever grown this one? Dominion Seeds says to start it in February, but everything else I have read says 6 - 8 weeks BLF.

Shauna

Hi again Shauna,

I just started some Mina lobata Exotic Love seeds yesterday. They do take a long time to develop as I've grown them before. It is one of those plants that doesn't start to bloom until the days get shorter in summer. Normally it starts to bloom here in August and it is very pretty.

Thanks for the info on the fan, yes I have an overhead ceiling fan on at a very low setting. I read somewhere that the white puffy mold may be a type of damping off that is happening even before the seed emerges. I have some slow germination going on especially with the Solanums I got from JL Hudson and a few passifloras too. I am getting fed up with some of those seeds though and I'm thinking of watering them in with GA-3 if they don't germinate in two weeks. I don't know what the result of that will be but I suspect it will either kill them or wake them up!

Shauna the Cyperus eragrostis ÂWind Dancer is about 2 inches high now. I wished I knew that they were going to be easy to start, I would of saved some seed for next year...I have 18 plants this year! This week sometime I will transplant them into 3" square pots.

IÂve also started the
Pennisetum setaceum Fountain Grass
Stipa tenuissima Mexican Feathergrass

Man, oh man, IÂm going to have lots of Oranamental grasses in the garden this year!

I guess I should start the Tidal Waves soon this week too if I want to take cuttings from them.

Nice seeds everyone, all the best ;)

Sharon

The white spidery web type mold seems to grow when the soil is damp and cool..I find by lightly sprinkling cinnamon on top of the soil gets rid of it..cinnamon also helps keep fungus gnats in check if you clean any bits of leaf debris etc off the top of the soil and then sprinkle the cinnamon..I start my seeds in soiless mix and so far haven't had any problems with damping off ,but there again cinnamon works for that too...savona

I have sprouts. : ?

After 2 days, I have 4 very, very tiny wave petunia sprouts and after 4 days, almost all of my Mina lobata has sprouted. Eek! It's a vine. That's scary.

Shauna

Hi Everyone!

I can't stand this! I'm reading through this thread and getting a sick feeling in my stomach. I'm so far behind!I'm going out today to buy bleach and soil less mix and some trays (and no doubt some seeds) and get my light table cleaned and ready to go. The advice has been great about damping off and fans etc. But other than Serpolet (creeping thyme) that I want to start for a friend and I and a few seeds I collected from last year, I haven't even thought about what I want to grow this year. Any advice on the creeping thyme? I'm going to replace my tiny bit of lawn in the front with it so we wanted the plants better established by planting time.
Kate

Hi all. I was fortunate enough to be given a care package of Escobaria Vivipara seeds ny Rick. They arrived in the mail a few days ago and I sowed them yesterday in two batches. One with the soil mix recommended by Rick and the second batch with the same mix, but with wood ashes mixed in to increase the pH to more closely replicate the soil conditions in their native area. I shall keep you posted as to the progress. I also received in the mail today a packet of Yucca Glauca seeds which I will sow later today. I have my fingers crossed!

Kate..don't worry.....I usually don't start any seeds this early....this year has been the exception.....I am trying a bunch of new things.....and I think that just got me sowing probably to early.

Does anyone have a pic of their datura seedlings/sprouts?

When should Hibiscus 'first love' be sowed?

Sierra

I just took this blurry picture of a container with some of the white daturas...the seed casing is still attached to a couple of them. They were sowed Jan 26th and the first one to germinate was Feb 1...savona
{{gwi:726756}}

Thanks Savona.....I just wanted to make sure I transplanted a datura plant and not a weed. LOL. For some reason ...I expected the seed leaves to be more rounded. I don't know why.

Oh and the Hibiscus is 'Simply love" not first love. LOL

I also transplanted 6 carnations and tossed the rest of the bowl out in the snow....not sure why I sowed so many. Hmmmm. Also had to thin out the celery and herbs. Some of the lupins have popped. And so have a few other things.....getting impatient for the petunias. LOL.

Sierra :-)

My first little sprouties! It was ornamental kale by a nose (as prophesied), followed the next day by
Venedium "Zulu Prince"
Dianthus "Arctic Fire"
and Cypress Vine! Only one so far. Man it has gross looking cotyledons... wonder if there's something wrong with it? At least I got one to sprout... Marcia, was yours gross looking when it first came up?

This stuff came up fast!

Well, I think this is definitely the latest I've ever joined in a thread!lol It just seemed that I had so many other things that needed doing first. Now I think I finally have my priorities straight again, and getting some seeds started is right up there at the top.

I did start some lotus seeds and agapanthus seed last sunday(5th) and today the lotus seeds have sprouted, so now I'm really in the mood for more planting.

So far, I've started:

Rhuem palmatum v. atrosanguineum (thanks Sharon)
Double yellow Datura
Hosta (2 unknown varieties)
Yucca Filamentosa
Eupatorium 'Chocolate'
Foxglove 'Grandiflora'
Rheum palmatum v. tanguticum

At least these will give me a start and also something to look forward to.

Here's a pic of my lotus babies. I'm so proud ;0)

I had 10 seeds and wouldn't you know it, every one sprouted. Hmmm....I think I may need a larger pond :0)

Laurie

Awwwww, Laurie, they are sooooo cute.

BTW, I have an envelope sitting on my table ready to go for you. Just have to get some stamps . . . soon.

Shauna

Aww yes they really are cute. Are they in a glass of water? Do you plant them in wet soil later? Just interested - don't know anything about lotus except eating them.

Welcome to the FN forum daveycrockett! I was so suprised how easy Rick's Escobaria vivipara seed were to germinate, I wish now that I didn't sow the whole packet! LOL... keep us updated on your seeding too!

Today I sowed...
Petunia Tidal Wave Cherry (13seeds)
Petunia Tidal Wave Silver (11seeds)
Petunia Tidal Wave Purple (11seeds)
I'm planning on taking cuttings down the road.

As well, I did alot of transplanting into 4" containers today.

Congrats Laurie on the Lotus seed!

Now off to do some wintersowing ;)

Sharon

Eeeekkk! Eating them, how could you!LOL I know they are edible, just haven't ever had the chance, and suspiciously enough, when they're plumped up with water, they REALLY look like kalamata olives(same size too).
Yes, you do start them in water, and apparently when I see roots, that's when they go into a pot of submerged soil. I've never tried starting lotus before, and I suspect that germinating them is the easy part ;0)

Shauna, no hurry on those seeds, as I think March is a pretty good time to start those, right? I also picked up 'Orange Prince' at wal-mart yesterday to go along with Zulu. I think they'll make an awesome pair.

Laurie

Well I would never eat... errr... adorable infants such as yours - LOL. Lotus root is a common ingredient in Asian cooking - it is similar to water chestnuts but not as crunchy. I don't know if there are different kinds for human consumption so please don't pull anything out of your pond for dinner - don't want anyone getting sick!

Oh and I have cypress vine #2 now. You can sure see the relation to morning glories in the cotyledons.

Gillian, i don't remember what the cypress vine seedlings looked like - sorry! I'll keep an eye on them when they get sowed this year. I'm afraid to start anything too early. Last year i was completely overrun by plants! LOL

That being said, my weekend plans include setting up the lights, so i'm pretty sure that sowing won't be far behind!

Now, Marcia, are you trying to tell us that after you get your lights set up, you are really not going to be tempted to sow just one lil' pot of seeds - just to have something under the lights. Yeah, right! : D

My 4 little petunia seedlings were joined by 20 little siblings today. Looking over my records from last year, that is very fast. BTW, these are my own saved seeds. Yes, I know they are hybrids and probably won't come true but I'm not too worried if they are mixed colours. Most of what I have been able to find is that they will still perform like 'Waves' this year but will probably not be the same color as the momma, which was Cherry. So, it is a bit of an experiment on my part to see what happens.

I also have
Nierembergia 'Purple Robe'
Nierembergia 'Blue Mountain'
Dichondra 'Silver Falls'
all breaking through. . . They should all be showing well tomorrow. I think I should turn the heat down a bit in my greenhouse. Things are starting to happen too fast for my liking.

Wanted to let all of you know what I'm doing this year. I read, with interest, last year about people using plastic "blanket bags" from the dollar store to cover their winter sowing. I decided there may be some merit to them and got some this year to cover my flats. Also, decided to try some in my greenhouse. So far, so good. They fit two flats and seem to provide a very nice environment for things to start. Once they are up, of course, I remove them from the blanket bag. This system is in lieu of covering each insert with plastic. Seems to be working well and I like the heat that seems to build up inside of them, also. Any thoughts or comments?

Shauna

Shauna,

That plastic blanket idea sounds great. I guess I'll go to the dollar store tomorrow and look for them. Can you take pictures of the way you have them wrapped up? I'm just wondering how you are preventing the blanket bags from touching the soil?

I knew someone was going to ask me this, Mary, and I chuckled reading your response. Actually, my plan was to bend some florist or aluminum wire (or coat hangers, but this would be a bit heavy) into 3 wide, shallow u-shapes (front, middle and back) and push them into the cells. I hadn't done this yet, thus the chuckle. However, when I went down to do my count before my earlier post this evening, I couldn't find my wire, of course. So, I used some plastic spoons and just inserted them into the odd cell pack on the sides. It works but I really think the wire would be best.

The blanket bags that I found are made from an opaque plastic and remind me of the type of plastic used in plastic baby pants for those of you that remember that far back (before disposable diapers). I did find quite a few in different dollar stores that were made from a very light, transparent plastic but I liked these because they were a bit heavier in weight. And they were the same price - $1.00. I found these in a store here called "Dollarama". Also, watch the size. The ones I got are 21" X 25" X 11". There are different sizes and they need to be big enough to fit two trays.

Sorry, I had two really nice pictures but I can't seem to upload them to my photobucket account, for some reason. They are reduced in size and I'm not even close to my album limit. Don't know what the problem is.

Shauna

Shauna, i'd be tempted if i had my seeds, but i just ordered them!! Actually, i did start a couple of things at the last Hort. meeting. We had a demonstration on how to do paper pots. I made four of them and sowed three nicotiana and some ornamental grass (the person i got that from didn't know what kind it was). Nothing is up yet.

Sometimes Photobucket acts up a bit. If you try again, it might work.

Thanks crazygardener. I've been a mamber for a few years, but I don't get on the net much. Between working a 12 hour shift schedule, three little girls, gardening, home and vehicle maintenance, hunting, fishing, camping, etc. I don't have a lot of spare time for the computer. If my company would just install a wireless network, I could use my wife's laptop to surf on nightshift! Like that's gonna happen! LOL

I WILL keep you people updated on the Escobaria. I had planned to sow my Glauca last week, but didn't get around to it. I'm working this weekend and into next week and WILL get them potted up. I PROMISE!

I've got my Escobaria sitting on top of the hot water heater during the day with a compact flourescent bulb over top and move them over to on top of the freezer at night. Do you have any tips other than what Rick gave me?

I'm so happy, saw some sprouts of these guys today...
TIARELLA cordifolia Foam Flower(GA-3)
Clitoria ternatea Butterfly Pea
1 sprout of Meconopsis sheldonii (from Ian)

daveycrockett, no special tips, other than what Rick gave, took 12 days to germinate.

Shauna, why not just use the plastic domes made for flats instead of blanket bags? ;)

My lights are all set up now, but i don't feel like doing anything else. I hab a code. Poor me. :( I could be winter sowing the seeds Susan sent me (thank you!), but i'm just into drinking hot liquids right now and am going to sit here and research some of the annual seeds i have to see what needs to get started first.

My big strong son dragged in a bale of Pro Mix for me. It should thaw this week (maybe!) and i bought a container of the cat litter crystals, so i'll be set for reviving geraniums and begonias by next weekend. Yay!

Crazy Gardener, I must have done something right! I checked the pots when I got home from work and I have one sprout after four days!

I hope I don't lose it to damping off! I'll give it another few days for the rest of the seeds in that pot and then I'll remove the plastic wrap.

Sharon, I know I had thought about getting all domes this year for my trays but when I went looking for them, I had trouble justifying the price at $2.99 for the number I needed vs. the blanket bags for a buck. I think the clincher was also when I went to HD to get the domes, they were out of them and so was WalMart. So, I'll try the bags this year and see how they go. So far, so good for WS, though. No lids to stop from blowing off like last year and I can open the zipper to regulate the air flow.

So far, so good using the cinnamon as a "damp-off" prevention, too. Just so happened, my DH had bought a big container at Costco about a month ago and we already had a big one in the cupboard. Gee, I don't know of a better way to use it up than this. LOL.

Shauna

My, it's been a while since I've visited this thread, and boy, has everyone been busy!

Hi daveycrockett,
I was relieved when when you said you have some Escobaria sprouting. Sitting on top of a water heater made me a bit uneasy, thinking it might be to warm. Your super quick germination is almost assuredly the result of temperature. Remember from your chemistry/biology class that chemical reactions generally work twice as fast with an increase of 10 degrees F(5.5C). So you see that the extra warmth wasn't necessary, although it didn't seem to hurt! I germinate mine at 20-21C. And do put the flourescent tubes as close as possible to the plants, within a cm or two.

If the top of your freezer for night time is cooler, that's a good thing. If it were me, I would put them on the floor as long as I was moving them, where it would be cooler yet. As with all plants (and seedlings), a greater fluctuation between day and night temps will produce stockier plants with more carbohydrate reserves.

The ashes idea is great. A far more gentle pH adjuster than hydrated lime. I'll expect a final report. Really!

After several distinct aeroles have grown on each seedling, you may want to add a mm of sand to the surface to help stablize them. When you bring them outside, you could topdress with #1 grit. Otherwise the rain will splash the soil and sand up all over the cactus seedlings. The clean grit will keep them clean too(and happy).

Rick

Well I sowed 500 impatiens seeds today, they arrived yesterday. LOL!

I got 4 cherry petunia sprouts......not very good...but I heard that that is what you get...4 seeds in packet for $6.99. Only heard that after I bought the pack though. Also looks like one gerbera sprout, and a couple storm petunias are up now. Oh and I think there were a couple hybiscus as well.

Sierra

Talk about instant gratification...I sowed 10 extreme double and 8 colarette dahlia seeds on Sunday..today I have 6 doubles sprouted and 1 collarette sprouted...:-)...savona

Sierra, look at it this way. You'd probably pay more than 6.99 for 4 plants, and anyway, you can take cuttings once they take off and get double, triple, quadruple petunias!

And 500 impatiens! Wow, are you having a big impatiens sale this spring??

500 OMG Sierra! Well I have actual astilbe sprouts now, as well as some tomatoes and a good proportion of my cypress vines. Also, a couple of nasturtiums. Are you even supposed to plant nasturtiums indoors? I just did a few in case.

When do I start fertilizing? And with what? Some of my sprouts have their real leaves now.

Savona...did you soak the dahlia seed first? I had a couple lupins do that....I planted and the morning of the second day...there they were. But the seed was soaked.

Hee hee Marcia and Gillian.....no sale in spring. DH wants a bunch of blooming bags on the fence....I put 4 last year and I guess he liked it....so ask if I would plant up a bunch......so I ordered 10 and have 4 from last year...so we will see how that goes. Plus I also use them as filler for empty pots........You can't have left over empty pots. :O haha. I'm hoping my fence will be more of a living wall? Impatiens, lobelia, begonas and I might even throw in a couple fushias.

Yessssss.......I will take cuttings of the petunias. I usually also sow 500 or 600 petunia seeds....but this year I decided to do somethings differently. So I cut way back on them.

Hey how come I don't have any discaria sprouts yet? Hmmmm

Gillian....don't fertilize nasutiums.....they don't like fertilizer. They also don't like transplanting....they get set back big time by it, but evenually they will start to grow again. I have found the same with sweet peas. They also like to sit there and sulk for a while as transplants.

For fertilizing most of the starts....I use 10 52 10 at 1/4 to 1/2 strength starting sometime after the true leaves appear. I don't fertilize often while plants are in the trays....as they will out grow the trays.

Did I mention I am a lazy gardener? ;-)

Sierra

Depending on they brand name of your starting soil, alot of these brands have added nutrients in them to last a couple of waterings or so.

Before I used to always fertilize my seedlings with a seedling starter with a higher middle number such as 10-52-10, however I can't remember who or where, I think it was at the annual forum, someone gave a good tip that you should be using a balance fertilizer such as 10-10-10 for young seedlings, although I can't find a 10-10-10 soultion anywhere, I use the brand called Plant Prod 20-20-20, a soluble, complete fertilizer with trace elements (also called micro-nutrients), and use it at 1/4 to 1/2 the recommended strength once a week with bottom watering - i.e., if label directions indicate 1 teaspoon per gallon of water, use only 1/4-1/2 teaspoon.

Seedlings growing in soil-less mixtures will require the addition of fertilizer, once transplanted outdoors in containers, that's where I switch to Miracle Gro 15-30-15.

Way tooooooo early to start Nasturiums, they're very easy to start directly outdoors once the soil warms up, but if you want an earlier start and earlier blooms, start them around the first week of May for June planting.

Sharon

Sierra I didnt soak the seed..just sowed it in moist soiless mix and covered very lightly...today i have 9 out of the 10 double extreme dahlias up and 3 of the collarettes. Another plant you should try on your fence is Torenia (wishbone plant)..I had very good germination with mine..planting instructions was shade in the south but can tolerate sun in the north...savona

So today I finally got out to Apache Seeds and got a few seed trays and starter mix and of course, a few seeds to start.
Chrysanthemum coccineum (perennial)
Delphinium tatsienense (perennial)
Serpolet (creeping thyme)
Annuals:
Lavatera (a pink & white mix)
Coleus (wizard mix)
Amaranthus (Velvet Curtains)
Scabiosa (Oxford Blue)
Petunia (Celebrity Orchid Ice)
Petunia (Rose Wave)
Purple Wax Flower
Cosmos (white, pink & red mix)
Nicotiana (Nicky's Red)
and just for fun
Cypress Vine (red, pink, white)
oh, and I got Rudbeckia (Cherokee Sunset) for free for the fall...

Seems red, pink and white are my new colors this year with blasts of purple and blue. The creeping thyme is supposed to be my new front 'lawn'.
Oooh, I'm catching that growing fever!
Kate

Well last evening I sowed
lavatera...lovliness
Malope
Butterfly flower
and snap seeds are in the freezer for 48 hours.

Savona...do you have any pics of Torenia (wishbone plant)...I have no idea what that is. I can also google it to see, I guess. The fence area gets good morning sun.

Sierra

Savona...I just googled and found it at Vesey's. Hmmmm that is pretty! Might just have to add that. haha

Thanks for pointing that out!

Sierra

I got a tiny little sprout on my Cobaea that I sowed a few days ago (maybe a week ago? forgot to jot it down). I just popped it into the potting soil and didn't even soak it. To make up for not soaking it I just watered it very well every single morning to keep the seed very moist. It worked and much faster then I expected too!

I am thinking about setting up our old 10-gallon fish tank and using some books to lift up the seedlings under the light fixture. I should be able to stick a few plants in there.

Today I indoor sowed....
Pelargonium Black Velvet 'Scarlet' Geranium (11 seeds)
Datura metel caerulea
Datura metel 'Blackcurrant Swirl'

Datura metel Triple Yellow (2 sprouts up so far ;)

I transplanted the Coleus Kong and Plectranthus into 4" pots as well today.

Soooow what's up with you?

Sharon

Yeah I thought nasturtiums were supposed to be planted directly - oh well I only did a couple. Maybe they will pull through.

So far my only complete no-shows are Alyssum saxatile and Columbines. Do these take a long time to germinate? They might just be bad seed, they were freebies. Oh well if they don't come up I will reuse the flats when my Seed Centre order arrives - holding breath - gasp!

Columbines haven't taken that long to sprout in my experience. I've winter sowed allysum saxatile a couple of times but didn't have much luck with it. I don't know about indoors.

One of the paper pots of nicotiana finally sprouted today. I can't remember if it was the red or the white. Now i'm getting the bug and i wish i had my seeds!

I have now sowed
snaps
pansys
salvia

I purchased two pots of mini roses...
Andrea...cream
Denise...mauve
There was 4 cuttings or small plants in each pot....so I re-potted them individually, cut them back, fertilized and now 8 plants under lights.

I have 3 gerbera with seed leaves and few more that have just barely sprouted. Keeping my fingers crossed they will all grow. The Discaria is the one that concerns me...do I need to do the sprout dance for this one?

Oh and I found 4ft shop lights at Walmart for $12.99. I bought one to check it out.....it looks like it will be good for seed starting....so now I have to go get a few more. :-)

Sierra