Does that include Tennessee Mountain? If so, send your mailing address.....Elder

It's supposed to be descended from Celeste, so let's give it a try. Thanx.

I have many cuttings from two trees that I believe to be Celeste but were labled otherwise in the nursery.

~james

Lets give them a try and see if they really are.

I've got Celeste from Paradise Nursery and from Ison's Nursery. The fruits are quite distinct from each other (I suspect the Paradise version is more likely the 'true' Celeste). Do you already have either or both of these? If not I can send those to you in late winter.

Negatory on both: so please send them.

James,

You cuttings were received today. Thanx.

Does this look like a Celeste? However, it has a red interior.

The fig does look like Celeste. I have read that if not caprified, the pulp of Celeste is pink. In Texas, that is the case. If caprified, the pulp is red, and the fruit tends to be slightly larger.

Jon:The Mistery fig is the same exactly fig you have as representing your fig site,FIG4FUN ,in my opinion.Regards

Mountainman,

That is an interesting tidbit. Mine are definitely red (witness the pix), and everyone seems to be sure that my figs get caprified (I do have a couple figs that may be capable of performing that function) since I have had many viable fig seeds over the years.

So, color change with caprification might make an interesting addition or wrinkle in my Celeste experiment.

Pitangadiego,

I have a fig which produces fruit that look very similar to the photos you have on your site under "blue celeste". I got it as a cutting from a local tree. Here is a picture of the fruit:

I notice you have blue celeste in your collection. What are your opinions regarding celeste and blue celeste - are they distinct? or one and the same?

I note that the leaves of this fig are similar to pictures of Celeste leaves that Herman posted last summer (from Home Depot and Miller Nurseries). Hairs on the leaves (and immature fruit) are more pronounced than other varieties I have, creating a velvety feel. Would you say the same of yours?

Here is a picture:

Michael

Jon, I've got a celeste, I can definitly send you some large cuttings of. Along with other late ripenning varieties that don't do well for my area ... but will do well for you...
Email me your address again.
Bass...

Hi, Jon,

It will be interesting to see what results you come up with on your Celeste experiment. Some of the large home improvement chains sell several different figs as "Celeste", a number of which are clearly not Celeste. Of the genuine Celeste variants I have had experience with (Celeste, Blue Celeste, Tennessee Mountain, the infamous Nero Caesar, as well as a few heirloom figs), the variants closely resemble each other. The Paradise Nursery version of Celeste closely resembles your fig. There are other Celeste variants (an example is (or was) pictured on Dave Wilson's Nursery site) that seems to have a longer neck and a slightly paler skin than the variant pictured below. One thing all the true Celeste variants have in common, though. They all rank right up at the top in terms of taste, despite their small size.

This Celeste type i Had two:One from Home Depot and one from Miller.I Discarded both for reason of droping fruits without reason in my Climate.They were not very productive eather.Regards

gofiz/Michael - That is part of the idea of doing the experimant - to grow several "Celestes" side by side and see how much different they are or are not. "Fig Heaven" has said for many years that the same fig grown in different soil, location, climate, etc., can have very different chacteristics, even including color, and that only side by side comparison which eliminates these variables can truly test to see if seemingly different figs are indeed different or the same.

Your leaves look quite a bit different than the ones I am used to seeing. I understand your comment about the different feel of the leaves, but can't comment from memory about which were which. Some are very thin and flat and smooth - almost 2-dimensional -, some are very thick and more sculptured and rougher in their feel and the ribs/veins are more pronounced. Some are "fuzzier" or "velvetier" for lack of a better term while others are almost waxy-smooth. Hopefully this year I will have a chance to make better observations of the leaves, beyond pix to document their shape.

The outside of you fig (from the pix) looks very Celeste-like, but the color is darker than I am used to, and the neck somewhat longer.

Bass,
It is done. Thanx.

I did pick up the Celeste offering at the local nursery which originated at Dave Wilson under the name Celestial, to see what it would be like. The pix from Paradise is great. I ordered several things from them this year, which are in transit somewhere. And the people there have been terrific to deal with and converse with.

Herman,

You Celeste in the picture seems to have more color (reddish) than I am used to, seeing.

To Jon :The Mistery Fig above is exactly the same in shape color inside outside,in my Garden as it is in yours.---------So what "FIG HAVEN IS IMPLYNG"Is not allwayes the case.------_"AND I am Unanimous in this" ,AS Misses Sloakam ,from "ARE you BEENG Served" would say!!!!!!.---------AND i am sure it will be a top Notch fig in your garden as in mine.----------------------I believe that a lot of resercher ,in order to justify their salaries ,hybridised a lot of new cultivars of inferior value and ,introduced them in the trade ,clogging the Market with "Impostors cultivars.________________________________________________________Best example is Conadria.____Peoples that GRew it State that is a good cultivar but 'OF LESSER FRUIT QUALITY,TASTE,and,SUGAR CONTENT,than THE Parent,KADOTA(ITALIAN DOTATO).___--SO IF this is the case why did he F---ed with it in the first place?????????.------NOT only that but he name Conadria after his name too.REgards

Sorry,I am getting more confused every day:I ment to say:

That:Ira Condit ,Worked on "ADRIATIC" TO make it a "lesser" quality fig and after that he named it "CONADRIA".--Regards

Dr. Ira Judson Condit was, without a doubt, the greatest fig researcher and fig variety developer of the 20th century. His work on fig varieties (Monograph-Hilgardia, 1955) as well as his book "The Fig", published in 1947, is referenced in virtually every work on figs since that time. He published the Monograph, which is frequently quoted in this forum, at the age of 72. He taught school at the age of 16 and earned his B.SC. from Ohio State U. at the age of 21. In addition to his work with figs, he also published bulletins on the loquat, persimmon, carob, and caprifigs and caprification. He also investigated the problems of olive culture in California. As a representative of the California Fig Growers, he did research in the Old World fig districts of Algeria, Italy, Greece, Turkey, France, Spain, and Portugal, as well as collecting fig cultivars from many nations. His writings and work are clearly the product of a formidable, vast, and mature intellect. We all owe him a debt of gratitude, not only for the historical materials on ficus carica that he collected and preserved, but also for his work in clarifying the historical origins of the different fig varieties. Many of the fig varieties in the Davis Germplasm Collection were originally collected by Condit and his group. By most accounts, the fig cultivars developed by Condit are of very high quality, sweet, and resistant to spoilage. One must keep in mind that the cultivars were developed and evaluated in Riverside, California, and will probably perform best in a Zone 8, 9, or 10 climate. Condit and his group did a tremendous amount of work in developing Conadria, Excel, Flanders, Tena, Deanna, Diredo, and Jurupa, among others. Their work involved raising many thousands of fig seedlings to maturity, and selecting among those thousands of seedlings the few exceptionally good fig cultivars. I would agree that in my climate (Zone 8-Austin, Texas), I prefer the taste of Adriatic over Conadria, although it is too early for me to render a final judgment. Conadria does have a closed eye and is more resistant to spoilage than Adriatic. Many factors are involved in the taste and quality of figs: climate, the age and health of the tree, and whether the cultivar is in-ground or containerized. Dr. Condit, who lived to be 97 years of age, "redeemed the time", leaving behind a legacy and body of knowledge (as well as a bevy of tasty fig cultivars) for which we all owe him a debt of gratitude. As Isaac Newton, the British physicist and mathematician, wrote in a letter to Robert Hooke in 1675, "If I have seen further, it is by standing upon the shoulders of giants." I have become acquainted with Dr. Condit through his writings. I wish that I had had the pleasure of knowing him personally.

If IT's not broken don't fix it. The true of the matter is that those So called California scientist,were never looking to create better quality fig cultivars,but to satisfy the California fig farmer in their quest for cultivars that will bring a better profit.

Flavor and taste were negligible requirements,of Negligible IMPORTANCE. Regards

Hi Jon,

I found the letter I meant to enclose with the cuttings on my bed when I returned from the post office.

The cuttings I sent were from two different trees. AA001 was labeled Black Mission in the nursery, and AA002 was labled Brown Turkey. Neither are either. Both were planted at the same time about 9 years ago. The trees, leaves and fruit are identical to each other with the exception that AA002 is about 2/3rd the size of AA001. This is probably due to the neighbor's fast growing trees casting increasing amounts of shade on AA002. The fruit resemble (although mine may be a bit smaller) the picture that Herman posted, however the leaves do not and are much smaller. The leaves and fruit do not resemble the picture posted by Geofiz. I will try to post pictures this summer when the trees fruit.

Good luck with your experiment,
~james

James,

Thanx for the info.

Pit,
How many variants of Celeste did you get?
Any results yet?
(impatient) George (NJ).

Pit et al,

Just a note to say that the leaf picture of what I believe to be celeste/celeste variant above is very similar in form (at least to my eyes) to what you have newly posted on figs4fun for that variety (two last figures labelled "john"). Base is calcarate and the central lobe is broad and triangular. Would you say they look similar now or not? The colour is different of course but that is probably due cooler/moister climate of PNW vs SoCal and the fact I took my picture early in the season last year (when ground is moister). As I mention above, the leaves of my plant have a more velvety feel than the rougher surfaces of other figs.

There seems to be alot of variety in celeste leaf form. If I recall correctly the type leaf (for example that which is portrayed in "Fig growing in the South") is very simple 3 lobed, smooth edges. The one feature in common would appear to be the broad triangular, central lobe. Any opinions out there on this observation?

George,

About 5 or 6 people sent me cuttings, and I picked up a couple others locally (CRFG), and bought a couple. I didn't expect to have fruit this year, except on the ones I already had.

Geofiz,

Hopefully later in the season, I can take a leaf from each variety I have and photograph them side by side. The pix labelled "John" are from a tree I bought from a friend two years ago. It is definitely everything charactreristic of what I know to be Celeste. My most definitive observation is that Celeste figs always have rougher, ribbed look when the fruit is unripe. The Blue Celestes, while having different fruit color, still seem to have the ribbed look in the immature fruit, in my limited experience.

Pitanga,
Which Celeste strains did you end up with? How are they doing? Photos?

I really don't know. I have about 350-400 fig trees in pots right now, and with our unusually long and hot summer, watering and repotting, etc., has gotten in the way of contemplation till a little later in the Fall. I received a half a dozen different cuttings, or so, and bought a couple more, and aleady had a couple. I am pretty sure that I have successfully rooted all of the ones I received, and some are already in 5 gallon pots, while others are still one 1 gallon size. I have had fruit from three or four, and they have a great variation so far, but judging fruit from young trees is not the best was to tell. My Dark Portugese is 4 years old. Last year the few, small, fruit it had weren't worth the bother, and I wondered if it had been way over-rated, but this year it has finally come into its' own, and has been a fabulous fig, heavy cropper, and has been ripening for almost a month now, with more to come, so it has a nice extended season as well.

Hopefully I will acquire some more wood this year to expand the experiment.

Take a look at my Walker pix. The fully bright purple one is from last season. This year they are darker purple on one end, and one end is green, and they are three times as big. You would never, ever, ever guess they are the same fig. But the only difference is 12 months. The soil and everything else, but the weather, is the same.

In some varieties, the weather can make a big difference in the appearance of the fig. For example, last year my Col de Dame Noire figs matured in cooler weather (Oct. 23), and the figs were very much like the usual pictures and descriptions (dark purple skin and deep red pulp). This year, the couple of figs that matured (the tree is still quite young) were very different in external appearance (The skin was green with purple stripes. The pulp was still dark red and the taste was unusually good in both cases.) The month of August was unusually hot for Austin. The temperature reached or exceeded 100 F almost every day of the month.