>>Maybe next year they produce on the new canes? They produced last summer almost instantly after planting them. <<

The reason for this...most often these plants come in from a greenhouse or out of province from a milder zone and can be 2 month ahead.

Ripening Balsor in pot...pretty loaded on one cane, not bad for July.

Here is my Wild Treasure as of the 19th. There are another few dozen berries on canes behind what you can see (on the ground).

Currently, about a dozen are black, but need a few more days to ripen. After a mild (only -17F/-27C) winter and additional protection, Wild Treasure, Black Diamond and Marion are all flowering heavily this year. Survival was over 90% on Black Diamond, about 60% on Wild Treasure (but moose also trampled this one) and Marion.

Konrad how many years unground till they produce heavy like yours ?

What do you mean by unground?..in a pot and growing the second season without transplanting.

These are my Chester right now... I like them, although they are not as sweet as I expected.. they go too soft for my liking if left on the bush to sweeten up a bit more. This is my treillis (made from recycled red Cedar, wires and bamboo. Not the best looking but does the job. Chesters are alongside Buffalo grapes and Haskaps.

I'm trying to multiply them and I tried tip layering, but it doesn't seem to work well for me. I am trying cuttings right now. That picture is from 2 weeks ago.

I have checked sweetness in my Balsor's black, taste is sweet... Brix level of 9, that's pretty good compared to some from Cosco I have in fridge, level 5....see here Brix

Looks great there Konrad!

Here's some of my 'Balsors Hardy Black', no production this summer, though hopefully next year. Canes are very rigid and were beginning to sprawl all over the place, so I pruned them as recommended. They'd be impossible to lay down to the ground for winter, so hopefully they truly are hardy! I guess, they can be left to run and then be tied to a support or pruned to grow as uprights. Next year, I'll try both methods to see that works best under my conditions.

Blackberries need allot of room, looks like you cut the strongest cane...you want to keep the strongest cane long which will produce the following year and die. Suckers will grow and these will be your new producer. Looks like this is all this years new shoots, did all last years growth, [fruiting canes] die back?

Konrad, I had read of the two methods, one to prune to make them grow as upright self supported plants and the other to allow to run and tie to a support, so I guess I will experiment. Last years wood had survived with no dieback, mind you it was a very mild winter, though only have a few berries had developed on this wood.

Sure..I haven't experimented with letting them upright, didn't think they would survive the winter, [been training canes down and covering them] with more suckers growing now I can afford testing this also, lol.

Are you planing on not covering at all?

Konrad, I highly doubt they will survive above the snowline for you in an average winter. I have not had any erects survive above the ground without protection by snow. My Stenulsons (from Wisconsin) survived about 70% with only snow cover over our very warm (-17F/-27C) winter last winter. However, I have not tested Balsor's. The cuttings I managed to get from our germ plasm last fall failed to root. I also don't have any data on Stenulsons surviving except this last winter, because moose usually browse them down and voles girdle what is left. I know that Illini Hardy and Darrow (some rather hardy ones) don't survive more than a few cm above the ground, but my trailing ones do to varying degrees.

Last winter I left one completely on its own didn't lay down or protect in anyway and it's huge this year with lots of berries in Calgary. It's black Satan. Very impressive must be about 8ft tall now and one of my favourite plants .

Sure...but it barely went to minus 30 C. ..and unusual winter. Black Satin was my best producer last year but voles devoured most canes.

Too bad we can't always enjoy winters like this past one!

'Balsors Hardy Black' have grown canes some as thick as my thumb, they're very stiff and would likely be impossible to bend to the ground without snapping, I would have needed to train them low beginning early in the season. Depending on how plants winter, I'll adjust my cultural habits accordingly.

From Cornhill Nursery ... Balsor's Hardy Black (Zone 3b)
This is the only variety we have found completely hardy in our climate. It produces bountiful crops of delicious berries over a long period. Outstanding!

Black Satin does not like my location. Summers are too cool (never see more than a day or two of 30C+ and one in eight summers never see 27C) to get much growth and winters kill the very small canes back to the ground each year. It sprouts up each July and develops less than 15 cm of cane by late September.

Wild Treasure just before harvest tonight. Berries average 3.5g. I've gotten over two pounds (one kg) off of this plant so far this summer. The wasps just found it this weekend. I let a few stay on too long, it seems. My Marionberry is beginning to produce, as is Black Diamond. Now if frost will hold off a few weeks, I will get nearly a full crop off of Wild Treasure.

Today I picked these....had them neglected last year and didn't cover up since they didn't perform to my liking..supposedly a Russian or Finnish but now I found out that it is identical to Balsors black, they taste exactly the same and fruit at the same time at the orchard. Balsor this year with good moisture has done awesome! They are very sweet, when left on until soft they have no hint of sour taste, much better then Chester...will get rid of them soon. These are grown in weeds without watering!

This is late in the season, but I finally am getting my first ripe blackberries. There aren't very many and it is from this spring planting of Prime Ark Freedom fruiting on this years growth. I thought being a primocane, I would possiblly still get fruit even if it froze to the ground. It is thornless and upright growth habit.

Perron has also decided to try fruiting, again very much on the late side. It was sent to me as a substitution (not my pick). I got it last year and transplanted it this spring. It is not very big but has several clusters and is more of a sprawler so will be easier to cover for winter.

Season is about over here. Have picked a total of about 5 pounds (2.3 kg) so far. Most of that was from one Wild Treasure plant. I will get virtually a full crop off of that plant! Have put in another 48 of them in hopes that my overwintering techniques were the reason for the success. Lots of rain kept the wasps away until the end of August and then they attacked the ripe berries. Now it is too cold for them, but that likely means that few of the remaining berries on Marion and Black Diamond will ripen. Wild Treasure will continue to slowly ripen until the berries freeze in a few weeks.

'Balsors Black' had terminated any new growth about a month ago and canes have been hardening up since. The plants are upright and stiff, so I will not be not be doing any winter protecting of them and I'll report back next spring on their success or lack of. Konrad, I'm glad you've been pleased with the fruit quality of this variety.

Sure..hopefully another mild winter, then we'll be picking by the buckets next year lol. Haven't trained them down this year either so they'll be exposed like yours.

The wild ones, [below] from hardy nursery in Quebec ...about 5plants put in at different location have all performed very poorly in 3 seasons with the second year of only a few mini berries, [and been spreading like crazy] got a treatment of broad leaves herbicide yesterday.

Konrad, it's a shame one is paying a lot of money for inferior selections, I had almost purchased those same blackberries from that place.

I have eight 'Balsors Black', four planted in 2014 that have now become strong and established, though these had r-e-a-l-l-y sulked under last summers very hot dry conditions. Another four went in the ground this spring and all eight thrived with the rain and moderate temperatures of this summer. I have never before grown blackberries and they seem to require higher soil fertility than red raspberries, my raspberries are monster tall this year and receive no fertilizer or soil amendments. Next spring, I'll give the blackberries a nice amount of compost or well rotted manure.

Question on wintering blackberries. When are you (as in anyone) adding coverings for winter protection? We don't have reliable snow cover so I am planning on setting up some mouse bait stations and covering everything with hay and maybe a tarp to keep it dryer.

I'm trapping almost year-round but seems not enough, [the neighbors mice take their place lol.] The thorn - less are more vulnerable then the wild thorny ones, none of these mice touched last winter. I covered them late.. about end of Oct. with frost blankets a couple of layers.

I grow mostly trailing varieties that are not hardy. I have already covered mine (with thin row cover), but will be adding a thicker second layer once harvest is complete and/or the first hard frost threatens (in the next 2 weeks). For me, covering early tends to increase root survival during the 6 months our ground is frozen.

As Twros was leading too I am wondering if soil plays a larger part in how a particular blackberry plant does in an area, or certain micro nutrients. Wild raspberries like to grow in old bush piles around here for instance, so does stinging nettle.

I've never thought of trapping year round. I do have a couple of cats and the snakes have really increased so hoping they have cut down on the mice. I'm surrounded by open fields and pastures so huge potential for move ins! the worst year for damage was when the neighbors made a large stack of straw bales kitty corner to our property... winter hotel for mice, got a lot of damage even on mature apple trunks that year, so now all fruit trees are wrapped with hardware wire.

Are you finding heavy row cover alone gives enough protection without snow cover?

katie77q, two layers of heavy row cover provides several degrees of protection (about 7F/4C). I use it mostly to protect the plants until snow cover becomes established. My plants will suffer damage at +10F (-12C). Often I have a snow cover established about the time the temperature drops to 0F (-18C). If it drops below that without snow cover, then I have lots of damage. Once a snow cover is established (mid- to late October), it usually lasts through the coldest part of winter and into April. The temp under the snow rarely drops much below 20F (-6C). It is a bit of a gamble.

Well....it was a colder winter and most of my Black Satin got wiped out...even with some cover. The Balsor seems the ticket for us and even without cover and above the snow most canes survived at around minus 37C and blooming now.

How is yours doing?

Mine mostly died to ground so I ripped them out. Still have one massive black satin that survived that must have a better location than others did.

Was cool for a short period but i will not be buying more :( anytime soon

Mine had a lot of die-back. I covered with hay and a tarp, but the hay still became moisture soaked so got a lot of rot and cane death. Same thing happened with my grapes, but most regrowing well. Prime Arc Freedom had the least rot damage. No sign of flowers yet. My Balsor was new last year, small and struggling. It has some healthy new growth coming so hopefully it will be producing next year, but I will have to rethink winter protection for them.

An interesting article. Blackberries have been discovered in Whiteshell Provincial Park east of Winnipeg. The park is huge - about 50km square. Anything that will grow there should grow at Edmonton. Hopefully someone is working on a hardy and productive prairie blackberry.

http://www.naturenorth.com/summer/fruits/Ffruits2.html

I'm in 4b and my Triple Crown died to the ground last winter, but I didn't protect it and the weather... well, still, I got some fruits that were incredible. Will try one more year, under straw this time. I also planted some plants close to the driveway, where they're gonna be buried under lots of snow (and road salt/calcium)... I'll let you know if it worked next year!

Here is a picture of a typical berry.

I had lots of damage, as well. The temperature dropped to -12F (-24C) with only two inches (5 cm) of snow on the ground in November. Even with several layers of row cover, the temperature underneath dropped quite cold. I had no thermometer under it, so I'm not sure. However, damage to Black Diamond was total and I think even the crown was damaged, as it sprouted primocanes rather late this summer. Wild Treasure did a bit better. I got a few small berries off of it and it has over a dozen primocanes growing. Marion was a surprise. Anywhere that floricanes were not touching the row cover, they are now producing berries. No crown damage either. I didn't have any survival on any other varieties except Siskiyou and Stenulson (a wild one from Wisconsin, which strongly resembles the wild ones in the pictures from the Winnipeg area). As usual, however, Stenulson is not very productive and it struggles with the lack of summer heat. I tried to place spruce boughs over the (erect) canes to keep moose from eating them and we ended up with such a heavy, wet snowpack that the boughs crushed and kinked the canes. I also realized that I have to force Stenulson to produce laterals, because it rarely does it on its own in our short summers. Without laterals, there are no flowers. This is not how my trailing types work. I cut off the tips on July 15th, but still few laterals. This wild variety may require more attention in order to get a reasonable number of flower buds. Regardless, canes that are thicker than pencils survive down to about -30F (-35C) as far as I can tell - so it does well under the snow.

Later in the winter, my farm dropped to -41F (-40C) briefly, but there was already 2 ft (60 cm) of snow and the temperature under the row cover dropped to about 10F (-12C), so I don't expect that that had any effect on what was left alive.

Jessica4b if you google "fort kent king nafex" you will find an brief discussion on someone who was growing blackberries along a road. You might find the info helpful - especially laying pipe (carefully) on the canes to weigh them down.

I ordered Balsor's from our national germ plasm tow years ago, but was inexperienced and couldn't get it to root. It appears that they don't have it anymore and it is illegal to ship it to the US. I will try to contact the USDA to see if I can get some. It might ripen too late here, though.

wxjunkie, Thank you very much. I found the page and enjoyed reading the text.

I'm truly happy with Balsor's ..been picking ripe berries for about two weeks now. Didn't think they would survive the winter with little snow cover we had and no protection!

How is Terry doing with Balsor's Black?

Konrad, I had a small crop of 'Balsors' and they were delicious! The plants had wintered surprisingly well, though I would have had a much larger harvest had last October not been so very cold and then very warm conditions the first half of November (up to 23 C at my location) and the majority of the fruiting buds at the end of the branches had been damaged. This years canes have developed very strongly and if all goes well 2018 "should" see very good production. | might increase my planting now that they have begun to sucker a bit.

Beautiful looking berries, Konrad. I threw a low tunnel over my Marions and they are coloring up very rapidly now. With daytime temps here only in the 10-14C (50s F) range, it is difficult for most blackberries to continue to ripen. Normal for this time of year and in the past only Wild Treasure has ripened berries at this time. This year, Wild Treasure is already done.

Konrad, have you noticed that Balsors has adapted to the short season over the years you've had it? Here, things tend to ripen a bit sooner after about their third season.

Could be...didn't think much about it, seems every year changes, we had good heat this summer, my Valiant grape is ahead also, most blue now when most years are just turning color. The John Elderberry puzzles me, usually most bunches are black my now but not this year, just turning color.

Here is my massive blackberry harvest from this year lol

yes this is it 1 berry :(

Well it's a start!

Wild Treasure began flowering a few days ago. A mild fall and relatively warm (only to -29F) winter spared many canes on several varieties. Should get around 4 lbs off of Wild Treasure again this summer. Marion also had good survival, but a cooler than normal May and June (33F on June 15th!) may delay ripening. Konrad, interested in how your Balsor's is doing. My Stenulson (wild eastern blackberry) is loaded with flower buds this year. However, the flowers have always failed to set in the past. Wondering if this variety is not self-fertile and needs to be pollinated by another eastern variety (like Balsor's). Western varieties (mostly what I have) generally don't pollinate eastern varieties. And I have yet to find another eastern variety that survives the winter.

How did you get Marion through the winter? I got myself Sylvan (50% Marion) and Kotata but I don't think I'll dare keep them outdoors the first winter. Here's Sonia, a blackberry of Russian origin (could be derived from eastern American genetics, no one knows)

It has been an early summer so flowering is well ahead of most years. Berries should be ready the first half of August which is as early as it gets.

This one locks like the Balsor’s black or it’s the very same!
I got a blackberry from Europe and is dead on the same as Balsor’s black!

Berry Allen, it's really great having your input here and in the raspberry tread I started several years ago and I appreciate the detailed info regarding 'Ohio Treasure', I've been busy as heck and neglectful to respond as wished. As for 'Ohio Treasure', I now kick myself for not ordering it, it apparently has some interesting traits!

Been doing crosses with 'Balsor's Black' onto some of my own hybrids and also onto a compact selection developed by Robert Erskine. If all goes well, I shall have a large number of seedlings next spring!

Much of my "success" with Marion (as well as Wild Treasure, Silvan and a few others) is due to the persistent winter snow cover of 18 to 30 inches (45-75cm). Still, it can be a challenge for them to survive extended periods of real cold (-30 to -40F; 35-40C) as the ground here is quite cold to begin with. The real threat to survival each year is the period from mid-October to mid-November before the snow pack gets established. Temperatures can drop below 0F/-18C, with is lethal to canes and buds. I lay the canes on the ground and cover them with several layers of Agribon 30 or 50. However, experience has shown that there has to be a 3-4 inch (8-10 cm) dead air space between the cover and the canes for the canes to survive air temps to -10F (-23C). I intend to experiment with additional air spaces between the layers.

At the other end of the season, I am limited by a lack of heat. While I can get a full crop off of Wild Treasure, I only get half a crop off of the other varieties unless I cut the canes off and bring them inside to ripen - so glad I read about that on this forum. I also use early season extension techniques. If it weren't for the wonderful taste of Marion and Silvan berries, I probably wouldn't keep them. Wild Treasure is thornless and very easy to work with, which is good, since it is extremely vigorous even here. Over a dozen new canes each year, each reaching 6 to 10 ft (2 to 3 m). Even with protection, about half dies back over winter. In a good year I'll get about 4 lbs (2 kg) of the best berries I've ever tasted.