That looks great Pudge! I think you got the rock placement right. Awww those little tiny sempervivums are just too cute.

Pudge......Your rock garden looks very nice!!!

We try to avoid rocks here because the ants are a big problem. We had rocks all along the front bed when we moved in...and when I moved them each one had an ant colony under it....I was not impressed!!! I got rid of the rocks PDQ when I saw that. They even move in under the landscape ties we have along the driveway. eeeeeeewwwwww...

Sierra

Rock on Pudge, it looks great!!! I just showed hubby your photos and he is impressed too!

Have you ever tried the annual Ice Plant (Mesembryanthemum), they would look great in there too for colour and they are so easy to start from seed too.

That is one cool looking Euphorbia! Are you going to mulch it with straw or peatmoss for the winter? I'd hate to see you lose it.

Thanks for the gravel tip ;)

Sharon

Thanks all. Sierra, we have plenty of ants too but they're everywhere so rocks or no rocks, I have to deal with them.

A few years ago when I first brought rocks in for the other side of the yard I had people telling me the rocks would attract snakes. Well, I'm not afraid of snakes so I don't really care but I've never seen a one in my yard - plenty in the tall grass areas a block or so from me, though.

Sharon, I've got some Delosperma congestum - perennial ice plant - started from seed, but they're too tiny to plant out just yet. My goal is to not add annuals to this area every year (that's actually my goal for the whole yard, but not there yet for some reason).

I don't know if I'll mulch the Euphorbia - the area gets a lot of snow from blowing it off the driveway so it will probably have good winter protection. I sort of bought them as annuals, and if they winter it will be a bonus. Maybe I'll try some cuttings to overwinter though.

Your rock garden rocks! hehe

Seriously, it looks great.

Nice variety of rocks there Pudge, you must have spent some time raiding a few rock piles. You did a really good job of placing your rocks. Where did you get that gargoyle? I really want one of those, he looks pretty big, we will need to get a frontal view of him sometime this season when you post later photos of your gardens. What type of sand did you add to your soil? Do your neighbours think you have finally gone over the edge?

LOL, yes - I imagine some do think I've finally gone over the edge, LOL. For the most part I get a lot of support from the neighbors complimenting me on my efforts. A lot of quizzical looks, though - being a farming community, most folks are more interested in getting the rocks off the land than putting them on. Bonus for me - all those free rock piles every where you look. I actually got all the rocks from one very large pile only a couple miles out of town, and there's still plenty more there.

I'm attaching a link from my question on the Alpine & Rock Garden forum where Lori gives an excellent explanation on rocks, and Rick explains why not to use the gravel.

The gargoyle's name is Jack, reminiscent of an old boss and a going away gift from my job in Ottawa. It's a fine sprinkler but I rarely use it as such. Jack was the most orderly person I've ever known so I always hope Jack the Gargoyle will instill that same order in the garden (scare tactics, if nothing else).

Here is a link that might be useful: here's the link

Pudge - thanks for the interesting link.
I know exactly how you feel about adding rocks to a garden. I grew up on the Iron Range....a place of seemingly solid ledge rock covered with glacier eggs. A little soil tucked in here and there. When we moved here, a place with no rock, I vowed I would never bring in even a single small stone. So....I felt like I was making a serious moral compromise to add rock to a perennial bed. Just proves that a gardening addiction can drive a person over the edge and into moral turpitude! LOL.
Jan

Pudge, I have a question, if you're only using peat moss and sand, how will the get their nourishment? Will you have to feed your plants some kind of fertilizer, or will they be all right in soil like that?

Sharon

The historical idea behind "rock gardens" is the growing of alpine plants that require enhanced drainage, and in order to keep them appropriately sized (that is, small) or even actually alive, very lean conditions are required. So, lean soil and no fertilizer, generally.

Of course, since those times, the idea of a "rock garden" has somewhat degenerated...such that the average person's idea of a "rock garden" is a mound of soil, dotted with rocks and planted with petunias. I'm sure we've all seen that interpretation, LOL!

Yikes! I have a 'degenerated' rock garden. A mound of soil with rocks. But, no Petunias! Is my garden only partially degenerate? LOL

Don't get me wrong. I think Pudge did her garden exactly right and your comment about the original concept is completely accurate in regards to an alpine rock garden.
I think where the degeneration has occurred is in the concept of 'what is a rock garden plant'? Many very small perennial plants, requiring (or tolerating) good soil, are now listed as a rock garden plants. So its seems to me that the current concept is there are two types of rock gardens. Alpines planted in conjuction with rocks is an Alpine Rock Garden of the traditional kind. Other small perennials grown in conjunction with rocks is also considered a rock garden.....just not 100% alpine in nature.

Lori - I am going to be chuckling for days about your description Petunias in a garden dotted with rocks. You gotta know I am one of those folks who favors the motto, "Friends don't let friends plant annuals". O.K. now everyone can beat me up! LOL.
Jan

Well, darn, Jan - here i had this reply all lined up in my mind about not being your friend because you sent me annual seeds, but the only annuals you sent were the wild cucumber (didn't germinate, indoors or out) and the salvia henmonium which you said is almost perennial once established. So much for that idea! LOL

My rock garden is tiny, and planted with no knowlege of what one "should" be. I just went by instinct. The centre of it is a blue fescue, and there are some lewisia and sempervinum in there, as well as a few of the creeping sedums, some lemon thyme that is hanging on but looks like it might be done for, and some California poppies that keep coming back. The mini-tulips and daffodils are in there too. Someone said i should half bury the rocks, but i figured they'd end up covered by plants anyway, so i didn't. Most of the rocks in there are larger pieces of quartz found at our cabin, and there's one small uninteresting boulder that was my son's contribution. So i guess it isn't entirely degenerate, just not typical! :)

Marcia -Fooled you, didn't I? Interesting, my wild cucumber didn't germinate either. Must not like being touched by human hands. Looks like every seed that fell naturally to the ground germinated. It is everywhere (as usual) on the river banks. Even have some coming up in my veggie garden. Pulled it out. If it isn't going to germinate in a pot for me, I want nothing to do with it! LOL

I guess your spelling of Salvia horminium is a reflection of my illegible handwriting! This annual is also known as Salvia virdis.

I will have to make a list of what I have plunked in my new bed with the rocks in it. I am still finding little plants here and there and so keep adding to it.
Jan

Jan - my point exactly. "Rock gardening" was intended to be a process by which one could grow specific species of plants which required good drainage, and were typically alpine species. The rocks were there for effect, to try to create the impression of the alpine environment from which the plants were taken, and to enhance drainage. Creating the environment (lean soil, enhanced drainage) required to grow certain desirable plants was what it was about.

My point is that the idea has been totally turned around in the public's mind, to where a "rock garden" is all about the rocks, and not about the plants at all. Hence the petunias, LOL! (Boy, that's a vivid mental picture!)

I would differ a bit in commenting on the plants... though I realize too that you may be commenting on the fact that the plant industry reacts to the consumers, so if the larger body of consumers wholeheartedly embrace the petunia slant on rock gardening, then petunias will start to be described as "rock garden plants". (But so far, I think it's just a prairie thing...the devotees of the art are too small a part of the populace to make a dint on the plant industry, LOL!)
As with much gardening knowledge/theory/experience, rock gardening has its roots in Britain. Britain has a drastically different climate than we have (although it sounds like you're getting to experience a similar one this year, Jan!) Through my experiences, I've seen that many of the plants that can only be grown "under glass" (i.e. in alpine houses) or with "sharp drainage" there, we can grow in normal garden conditions with "average" drainage. So, I believe that this climatic difference has resulted in a great number of species being thought of traditionally as "alpine" plants, though they don't need those conditions here. It has also allowed us the luxury of growing various species in regular garden conditions, and has, perhaps, contributed to the idea that for a rock garden, one need only add rocks.
Typical "rock garden" plants, such as the sedums and echeveria are actually derived from the semi-alpine regions of the mediterranean. Other alpines - the little bun-shaped gems that alpinists drool over - are generally from the cold alpine regions of various parts of the world. The thing in common is, in their natural habitats, these species live in poor, rocky, free-draining soil, rather freshly derived from the breakdown of the montane rock.

So, Pudge has created a rock garden (no quotes required) in the original intent of the act, with enhanced drainage, lean soil and with cold alpine and mediterranean alpine species. Well done.

Bringing the discussion back to the original question (paraphrasing, "won't she need to fertilize to make up for the lean soil?"), no, she won't, if she intends to keep the alpines in their traditionally-desired small forms, rather than allowing them to be become big and floppy. Some of the species may not even survive regular soil, particularly with spring wet.

By the way - excitement here! The chickadees have fledged, so this will be a tense day of watching out for the neighbor's cat. There's one little guy. who may have been the last to hatch, who's still just skimming the ground! Gotta get some altitude, boy!

I've read that wild cucumber seeds have to be planted fresh - one of those relatively rare instances of rapidly declining vitality with dry storage...

Uh, I don't know ... I just like rocks, LOL.

Really, the intent was to create an area that looked interesting for a longer time thru the year, and I thought the rocks and semps would do that - they look good in even in winter with no snow. Aesthetically I thought I should tie in this side of the driveway with the other, which has lots of rocks. I wanted a mostly low carpted look with some taller plants toward the center of the bed. I also want low water requirements and if some of the plants I planted don't like that then they'll either die or get moved, but I don't want to baby the area. And I thought I was on the right track with plants requiring little in the way of nutrients, as Lori states above.

So no, I don't intend to fertilize or constantly amend the soil. I don't want the plants to grow so fast that I'm always having to divide, but I'd still like it to look full with some colour. But texture is probably ahead of colour requirements. I hope it all works out - I've got it all in my mind's eye but bringing it to fruition will be the test. Right now it's a wait and see game to see how the plants grow and how the area goes thru winter.

Well good for you Marcia for going by your own personal instincts, I remember seeing photos of your rock garden last year and its wonderful!

If its one thing I despise in the gardening world is "snobbery" of what and what not to plant in your own garden even if its surrounded by ROCKS. Hey, why not add a big plastic pink flamingo in the center, turn an old whiskey barrel on its side, surround it with lush green turf/lawn while your at it, that will give them something to chuckle about!

Pudge, thatÂs all I wanted to know, is if one has to supplement the soil in a peat/sand mix ;)

Pudge whats with the "duh, I don't know." LOL You obviously did your homework and developed a planned bed that 'tied' into your setting. If it was just an accident, then how come, after all these years, a wonderful Japanese Garden hasn't just accidentally appeared in my yard? Even when I plan, I get strange results....like a planned Hosta bed turning into a Rock Garden. Go figure.

Sharon - I don't feel that there was any intent to tell anyone what to plant or not to plant in their own garden. Apologies to all if the discussion on the history and some of the nuances of rock gardening came off this way. Everybody that gardens has a unique garden that is a reflection of their own preferences, style, special areas of interest, etc. It is what makes gardening so fascinating and these forums so interesting.

Lori - You gotta understand I have been in the wet and rain so long that my brain is soggy so I don't know if I am up to responding to a couple of comments in your last post. But...despite the Powdery Mildew coming out of my ears and the Black Spot around my eye sockets....I am going to give it a try.

I don't think rock gardening originated in Britain. The Chinese and the Japanese get credit for that. Dating way back to the Tang Dynasty and closely tied to their culture, philosophy and religion, the concept of creating miniature landscapes in the form of a garden was born. The plants in their miniature landscape gardens with rocks was not limited to alpines but contained any and all types of small plants and/or those that could be kept to a miniature size. It should be noted, in these early gardens, the rocks were more important than the plants.
On the other hand, the British got into the rock gardening for a completely different reason/purpose. Early in the nineteenth century, an increased number of travelers visited the mountainous parts of Europe. They became intrigued with the alpine vegetation they saw in such places as Switzerland, etc. Brought some home with them. But, for the most part, failed in attempts to grow the alpines due to soil and climate differences. By early in the twentieth century, they had finally figured out the 'major secret' to alpine success .....the soil requirements. Don't ask me why they added rocks. Perhaps many travelers had seen the gardens of Japan and/or China and decided to try to make an alpine landscape. Maybe because they just had a lot of rocks and ran out of fences and barns to build with them. So, the British could rightly be credited with pioneering the Alpine Garden. But not the Rock Garden. Early on, in Britain, their gardens with rocks were solely limited to alpines.....but that was their own preference.

In North America interest in rock gardening came later than in Britain. Because of the wide different in climates, limiting plant selection to only alpines throughout North America was not reasonable. Rock Gardening kinda went back to the original concept of creating a landscape with rock and small plants. Ergo - we now have small plants described as 'Rock garden Plants" which are not alpines. I don't think this is just the plant industry responding to consumers.....albeit that is surely part of it. I think it is legitimate to describe a small plant as a "rock garden plant" if it is suited to a miniature rock landscape. So....an alpine garden with rocks is a rock garden but a rock garden is not necessarily an alpine garden. Two different things. Two different origins. The only thing they have in common is small plants and the attempt to duplicate a natural landscape.

I am cheering for the Chickadees.

Re: Wild Cucumber. Several years back, I had a gardener visit in the early spring. The Wild Cucumber had sprouted in my veggie garden but I had not yet tilled. She asked me what those seedlings were. I said they were wild cucumber. Perhaps she thought I meant they were a domestic cucumber than had reseeded or gone wild? Anyways.....She looked doubtful, studied them awhile, and said with considerable authority that they were Winter Squash. (Gave a whole new meaning to winter squash). Asked if she could have one. I told her to take as many as she wanted because I was going to till them under. She left with quite a few. I never heard another word from her. I have often wondered how much time she spent looking for a 'winter squash' midst those monstrous blooming vines.

Would someone tell me to shut-up already!
Jan

Jan, yes i had made a mistake interpreting your handwriting but i HAD found the real name, only my mind doesn't often work properly, and i reverted to the one i had thought it was... Soggy brain here too! LOL

Thanks for the info on rock gardens. These tidbits of information are great to file away in soggy brains. Some day i'll say to someone "I don't remember where i read this, but..." :)

This morning I checked out my rock garden. Hadnt looked at it in several days since I have been occupied with cleaning up the mess in the other gardens. Imagine my surprise when I saw two very tall plants in my rock garden! Suppose to have only little itty-bitty plants there. Ooops! Made a mistake and planted something other than an alpine in this bed? How could I have done something so dumb? It wasnt even a nice looking plant. Kinda gray in color, long stemmed with very ugly flowers. Why would I even have bought such a plant? (O.K..because someone was selling it!) Before I went to get the shovel to move it, I checked the tag. Holy-Smolie! It was Leontopodium alpinum. Fifteen inches tall! (I measured it.) I do believe I have set a record in the size of Edelweiss. Also, set a record in foolishness.

Lori, you are so right. It is all about the soil. Whatever made me think that I could change gears in the middle of project? Putting alpines in a bed prepared for Hostas, stacked high and deep with super-rich composted sheep manure! Yeah.I know, it is my garden and I can do what I want. But I wanted a rock garden with little dinky plants. Not something akin to an overgrown Cottage Garden! Glad I didnt put Hen & Chicks in this bed. It would be a case of Big Tom Turkeys. All I can say... it is a good thing I am not into mountain climbing. I would end up on the Mojave, dying of thirst, armed with a sleeping bag good to 45C, 2000 feet of belaying line and a 100 pounds of snow anchors and ice screws.

Now, I am not going to be able to sleep at night.... worrying the roots of Lewisia longipetela Little Plum will hit the mother lode and great big rosette leaves will come right through the bedroom window and strangle me in my sleep. I shudder to think what Acinos alpinus will do to me.

In the meantime, I have enjoyed reading catalogs devoted to alpines. Their plant descriptions are something else! Enough to make an innocent like me blush. The Alplains seed catalog describes Delosperma "Beaufort West as "super-cute buns." Quite a few selections are described as having "nice tight buns". I was going to order seeds (beats an exercise machine) but am not going to now. You know what kind of buns I would end up with!

Enough whining about my fiasco with alpines in rich soil. I am going to quit now (everybody cheer and clap). Gotta go and hang tin pans around my bedroom window. Want a few seconds of warning before that Lewisia gets me.
Jan

Hey, I've got some Desosperma growing - hope I get some tight super-cute buns out of the deal!

With the seemingly endless rain we've been having, I'm not regretting all that work at all. The soil drains wonderfully and nothing is showing signs of rot. Plants are growing although not by leaps and bounds. They're healthy. The only plants not doing well (i.e., just kinda sitting there in limbo) are the annual Savannah grass but I suspect this has a lot more to do with lack of heat than anything. Perennial grasses seem to be growing well.

I received my Opuntia collection from Gardens North yesterday so am going to try and find some room for them today. I actually forgot all about these when I was planting the bed and didn't leave space for them. I did manage to find room in there for more tall sedum the other day though

BTW, that Dusseldorf Pride Armeria is still blooming and sending up new buds. It was in full bloom when I bought it and hasn't stopped since, so that's gotta be 8 weeks of bloom so far.

Had to look up the Armeria. Nice.
One of my favorites is Acinos alpinus. Long blooming too. Glen of Regina has it on his terrific website. Gives it a high rating.

Here's an update on my efforts.

The rain stopped about a month ago, and we've had plenty of heat since then. Plants are growing well and the bed filled in nicely.

Here's the overall bed

And some closeups

Looking good....they sure have filled out since you planted them!

Wow! Everything looks great, you did a wonderful job.

Syreeta

Gorgeous! I really like the overall view of the bed. Thanks for the update!

Doris

Absolutely wonderful. Great job, Pudge.
Jan

Looks great! Nice and desert-ish! What are the tall pinkish plants near the edge? They look like something out of the sea!

Thanks all. I do see a few problems to take care of next year - like the Dianthus and Baby's Breath covering up some of the Semps - once the annuals are out of there, I'll have a better idea.

Marcia, the tall pinkish plants are the unnamed Sempervivum blooms. My mom gave me a clump of these a few years back and they multiply like mad.

I'm ready to get a truck load of sand tomorrow and I understand its very important to get the right sand for a successful rock garden...but what kind should I buy?

There are so many names of sand!

Builders Sand
Sandbox Sand
Sharp Sand
Reclamation Sand ? What the heck is this?

I can get free gravel from our MD but as Pudge mentioned it turns to cement?

Any comments would be appreciated ;)

Sharon

I think I'd choose the sharp sand. Sandbox sand would be too fine, and if you google sand reclamation, I think that's something you wouldn't want either. If your 'gravel' is the same as ours, used for road building, then it's got clay in it and will bind together.

Can you go and look at their stuff before it's delivered? Or ask what size particles are in the sharp sand vs the builders sand? I understood 1-5 mm to be a good size for soil amendment.

Thanks Pudge, Yes I'm sure I can go look first. I told them that I was making a rock garden and that I will need good drainage stuff, well these guys are contractors and they have no idea what I was talking about ;)

Sharon

LOL, I know exactly what you mean. Nestor the gravel guy just smiles and nods his head but you just know that nothings really getting thru.

Any progress, Sharon? What kind of sand did you end up getting?

Too many Nestors in this town too Pudge, LOL, I'm going to wait for my next days off and check out another company just out of town that sells sand too.

But so far, I have all the grass killed ;)

I see that you like Cavendish Perennials in Ontario....they have so many to choose from, are all Semps hardy to our zone?
Which ones would you recommend?

Sharon

I just assumed they are all hardy and didn't even take that into consideration, to be honest with you. I received 17 varieties - after they arrived I potted them up in the greenhouse cause the rock garden wasn't yet ready, and I had somewhere around 40 pots from those 17 varieties - Cavendish is quite generous!

I like them all, really, but I've noticed Damask is quite nice with a dark red center and greener outer, Plastic is interesting - green but very shiny and rounded edges, Legolas and Plumb Rose held the purple colour all summer, Raspberry Ice is gorgeous. The rest of my order included Red Ace, Aross, Packardian, Pacific Sonata, Festival, Fuego, Director Jacobs, Lynn's Choice, Blue Boy, Lilac Time, Butterbur, and Magnificum. As I said, I like them all. And I want to order more! But i need to build another rock garden, I guess, or maybe a Semp garden - just semps and rocks. Hmm...

I'm late getting in here but I think it looks fabulous too Pudge! I really love the pale green semps "flowing" between the rocks in the third pic.

Thanks for your list Pudge I will look those names up. I can't believe how many varieties they sell there!

I've only got a couple of semps in my garden, but nothing special about them. They were WS'd from a GN Hardy Mix.

Sharon