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H. orientalis vs. H. niger

21 years ago

Helleborus orientalis grow like weeds for me here in northern Alabama. Now I've seen some Helleborus niger at a local garden center and I'm itching to purchase a few. Comments in the past on this board have me concerned. Anyone in zone 7 or nearby have good experience with H. niger? Thanks!

Laura

Comments (14)

  • 21 years ago

    It's pretty low on my list of favored hellebores - nearly always suffers from leaf spot or botrytis and doesn't have a lot to say for itself AFA the flowering is concerned, just your basic white. But it is perhaps one of the earliest hellebores to bloom. I'd favor one of the other species hellebores first - argutifolius or foetidus or one of their cultivars - or a nigercors or sternii hybrid.

    BTW, orientalis is seldom seen in the trade. What you are referring to are most likely x hybridus or the commonly called "oriental hybrids".

  • 21 years ago

    Thanks, gardengal. You've helped me stay strong and not buy!

  • 21 years ago

    My limited experience with H. niger has been pretty good in my garden. I had read that it wasn't fond of our acidic soils or summer heat and humidity, so my first attempt was a couple of 'unnamed' plants (ie not cultivars) I picked up in a zone 8 South Carolina nursery. I figured those plants might even be relieved to be moving a zone farther north. I planted them with a chunk of concrete in the bottom of the hole and they've flowered every year since, even seeded off. I love the pure white blooms because they show so well in my garden in winter. This summer I planted H. niger 'Nell Lewis Strain' (strain origin Greensboro, NC). It's covered with buds and looks like it will be much earlier flowering than my other plants, open in Jan if not by Christmas. I've only had H. niger a few years, so far I've not seen any foliar disease though I do on H. argutifolius. I would have trouble ranking hellebore species in my garden, though. I like them all.

  • 21 years ago

    Elizabeth Town offers seeds for a strain they say is superior. I assumed they meant the problems that gardengal was refering to. Sounds like Karen has already found a winner for your area.

  • 21 years ago

    Niger is a funny plant, very well worth trying in a sheltered spot away from wind and weather, If happy it will delight with early blooms...november-feb-may is the sason, however ofter I find the blooms are destroyed by the effects of the weather.

    There are quite a few varieties of H.niger about, early, late, big, small, you find what you want and you look after it
    However the Niger hybrids, H. x nigercors H.x eric smithii, H. x ballardii are among the best garden plants on the planet. Nigercors gives me a full sun upward facing plant from March until end April, 50 -80 blooms. Rigidly smiling at the world, sterile to pollination and holding their flowers aloft for the suitor that will never come, until finally, sympathetically you trim the blooms off to preserve the plant for next year. Ballardii and Eric Smithii are similar but not nearly so robust.

    Cheers Greenmanplants.

  • 21 years ago

    I added two nigercors cultivars this summer, doing well so far. One of my favorites, though, is an H. niger 'Potter's Wheel' x lividus that has been in about two years. It may have the best foliage of any of my hellebores, the lividus genes come through strongly. I was afraid it might tend toward that parent in hardiness, too, but so far so good. We haven't had particularly cold winters since I planted it, though. I try to watch the weather forecast and keep some extra leaves to throw in it in case we drop into single digits (Fahrenheit, that is).

  • 21 years ago

    Niger X lividus used to be x nigerliv and is now x ballardii, is a lovely plant but I've lost it in fairly mild winters here in z8 Hampshire. I clearly didn't do enough of the extra protection.
    Cheers Greenmanplants

  • 21 years ago

    Happy holidays, John. Haven't heard from you in a while. Anything blooming (hellebore-wise) in your garden yet?

  • 21 years ago

    This has been a good reminder for me on the relative tenderness of x ballardii. I think I've gotten a bit complacent the past couple of years. We've had some earlier than usual cold temps here lately (down to 10 degrees F), and when I went out to cover it up more carefully this morning I could see that it's felt the cold. I generally don't have to go 'round really tucking things in until after the new year, so I hope I haven't caused significant damage.

    Can you tell me if H x ballardiae is a sterile cross? Most of what I've read says that it is, but I've also seen seed listed for sale a few places.

  • 21 years ago

    H. ballardiae as with H. nigercors and H. ericsmithii is generally regarded as a sterile hybrid. The seed would be for the niger x lividus cross in the first instance, this is a relatively easy cross to make and provided it has been made in a proper controlled environment, free from other pollinators, should result in 100% H.ballardiae seed, (I do not control the environment sufficiently and always get some H. niger seedlings in with the crop).
    The argutifolius X lividus cross is fertile(H. x sternii) as these two plants are deemed to be very close and perhaps forms of one species, H.sternii is quite variable and it is worth trying various crosses with this and H.niger giving the H. ericsmithii forms that we see. This is a good deal hardier than H.ballardiae.

    That being said, there is a very interesting article in the Scottish Rock Garden Club bulletin, July 2004 suggesting that there may be further hybrids to be had with 2nd and 3rd generation plants having been produced. These look a long way off being produced commercially but the hint was that with more mature plants, there was a higher possibility of seed production.

    Helen Ballard is reputed to have produced a self fertile form of H. ballardiae, but this was never verified and these are now lost.

    Ashfield nurseries in Yorkshire England, (not to be confused with Ashwood Nurseries), is doing a lot of work in this area and may be worth looking up.

    Cheers Greenmanlants, Hampshire England where H.foetidus is just getting into full swing, joining sporadic H. niger struggling against the weather. The orientalis hybrids are in active growth and have buds all over, should be in bloom over the next month or so, depends on how many very cold days we get now that the solstice is past and we have lengthening days once again.

  • 21 years ago

    Thanks for all the information. It was Ashfield Nursery that I saw listed on one website as having a 'true breeding seed strain' of H. ballardiae, referred to as 'Anne Watson Strain'.

  • 21 years ago

    I'm a bit confused by all of the concern for cold hardiness of H. niger. It grows perfectly well without protection on the east side of my house in northern IL. We have open winters without much snowcover and I don't smother it in leaves.Temps dip into the minus twenty-somethings here in zone 5A. The blooms (around Christmas to late Feb)gets pink spots from the cold and wet, but I can gather enough for small bouquets, by picking them as they open. Deb
    Incidentally, I also grow orientalis hybrids and foetidous.

  • 21 years ago

    Deb, I don't think anyone has commented on the lack of niger hardiness - it is one of the toughest and most cold tolerant of the hellebore species, if not the most striking to all eyes and not without its own set of problems. Hardiness issues arise when niger is crossed with somewhat more tender species, particularly lividus.

  • 21 years ago

    Happy to report that my H. x ballardiae survived 10 degrees F and my neglect with just a little leaf burn. The buds are just now starting to open.

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