How about calling the local 4-H and see if they'd be willing to bring you some for a donation. The 4-H in St. Lucie County bag it and sell it at the Master Gardener's sale twice a year.

You're not going to want to hear this, because it is labor intensive, but it's totally free-- here in Orlando, you can get free compost at the garbage dump-- and although the dump itself smells bad, the compost doesn't-- it's like rich, black earth, and you can fill up a bunch of smaller grocery bags with it and bring it home with you...

Check out Craigslist. You may be able to find someone with horses or cows nearby who would be willing to deliver manure for a fee. You may also want to get bagged compost/manure at HD or Lowes and dig it into the planting areas. I've tried peat and found it to be a pain. It's hard to wet. I would say use compost or some other organic material and mulch once your plants are in place.

I have always used, a combo of topsoil and manure. It has always worked good for me, and then I fertilize with manure throughout the year. There is also a composted peat that is easier to get wet, it's almost like soil.

Brat

Gardenbrat~Would you know the brand on the composted peat? Retailer?
Thanks Marion

Thanks for the ideas folks! I called the county and they do have the composted soil over at the landfill. My daughter's boyfriend says he will actually go over there tomorrow and fill up the back of his truck! Yippeeee!!!!
That will certainly get me started. I wonder if I still need to add manure to that? Whaddaya think? I also have a tree trimmer guy who is bringing me an entire truck load of mulch. He did it last year and it worked out pretty well. I just give him a little money for gas and get a huge mound of mulch. Nothin' like dirt and mulch to make a girl happy:)
Pat

Monterey Mushrooms in APopka gives away free mushroom compost.

Also you can buy alfalfa pellets cheap at feed stores and they make an excellent source of nitrogen.

Joyce

Hey Pat that's awful nice of him. That guy deserves a hug and a big pitcher of iced tea. Some chocolate chip cookies wouldn't hurt either.

Pat,
I just got a couple yards of composted pine bark (actually composted pine fines) delivered by Bolling Forest products here in Orlando. I think it was $18/yd but of course there was a delivery fee. If you have the truck and can pick it up it may be more economical. It's wonderful stuff and I've been planting directly into it. My plants love it.
Kate

Pat,

my experience is the compost from the dump will have a lot of weeds and weed seeds in it. This is understandable, plus it has to be loaded one shovel full at a time.

At the mushroom joint, it is weed free, it is a really good blend of nutrients and it is loaded onto the truck for you.

Both are great. Given the choice I would go with the mushroom compost though.

These are all such great suggestions! I was trying to send the kids to the mushroom place today but it looks like it closes too early, so will try for landfill. The mushroom place said $5. bucks to load it onto the truck so I definitely want a load from there sometime.

Marion, he does deserve a treat and I plan on giving him lasagna, brownies and a bit of cash:)

You guys and dolls are such a wealth of info!!!

Pat

where are you located? if you are close to stuart, florida i'll give you some excellent vermipost that will put life back in our soil.

bring a bunch of 5 gallon buckets and load up if you want. i mix at 12% each crop turn.

email me for directions @ m2jrmfl@bellsouth.net if you are close to cr609 & cr714. i'm 7 miles west of 609 on 714, the martin county grade.

sunshine_farms,

Are you available tomorrow? I will be driving right past your area and I am interested in the vermipost. I have never used it before however I understand it is one of the best products to use for fortifying the soil.

Thanks
Tony

Thanks for the offer sunshine farms but I am in Orlando. I sure wish I was closer.

I have noticed a bit of improvement in one of my beds. I guess what I have been doing over the last 6 years is starting to pay off because when I was digging in the new stuff I actually saw some earthworms which I never had before in that flower bed.

Sorry, but I will not be on the farm Sunday.

a few things you might try are building a high carbon/nitrogen substrate (fine pine bark works well) @ 18 inches to 2 feet. then I would mix perlite, peat moss (not the bogg surface vacuum that home depot and lowes sell, but the real moss "premiere" brand) composted cow manure (greenleaf was purchased by timberline but still makes a decent compost) and some coarse perlite.

adding in some mined minerals is always an excellent idea, you will notice a HUGE Difference. Make sure you use the granular formulations and not 100 mesh. Azomite is wonderful, i have been using it for years.

alfalfa pellets, start n grow chicken feed or laying feed is an excellent addition to mix in.

feed your soil, it all begins there. if you do not compost heavily, try to set up a worm farm vermiposter in the shade.

if you need any help with the how to's i'll upload some photos and show you how.

sunshine
I'd like to hear more about your vermiposter. Is it small and unobtrusive (so my neighbors don't ask questions)?
I do trench composting but a vermiposter sounds good too.
I've seen the worms increase in my garden just with the kithen waste put in the garden.

an aerobic container is important as is moisture/temperature.

i use a specific container of stranded carbon fiber which breathes very well and moves air through the vermiposter to increase microbial activity.

shade is important, and yes the sizing can be form 15 gallons to 200 gallons. i use a heavy matte of 20 oz. @ 100 gallons. it works very well, ~ 300% faster than other methods i have attempted.

there are worm wigwams, worm factories, etc... nothing has worked as well as aerobic bags. the colony size doubles faster, the worms are larger and the output is superior.

a good catalyst is fish emulsion, it kicks things off by providing bacteria for the worms immediately. i use no citrus or animal byproducts whatsoever. manures need to be dried first then added. any organic scrap will do, certain flowers are not a good idea. i tend towards using only edible materials and manures. lawn grass is good as well, but it needs to be dried for a long time and then partially composted or it will overheat.

layering the vermiposter with a substrate of peat works well, this will capture leachaette and retain phosphates and end of cycle nitrates/nitrites.

i'll upload some pictures of the process and how best to layup a bag. if you send me an email with your address, i'll see if i don't have a spare 15 or 30 bag for you.

by the way, why on earth would your neighbors gat all worked up about this? are you in a condo or townhome, is there an HOA? trench composting in florida is not a good idea imo. nematodes tend to find there way into your compost and and certain types can be quite damaging to the root zone of specific plants.

worms will increase in your garden, but this is usually a function of temperature and moisture as well as available bacteria, the conditions need to be perfect so congrats on that success ! how far down are they?

if you can capture some by placing a large ziplock bag filled with ice in the ground and cover it. the worms will accumulate under it in about 4 to 6 hours usually. dig them out and place them in a box with shredded newspaper and any leafy lettuce you may have along with some composted cow manure (home depot) and peat moss to help retain moisture. i turn my bags monthly.

use these to seed your vermiposting bag.

if you are ever up in the stuart area, you should stop by, i am 28 miles inland off the martin county grade, i'd be happy to show you how to vermipost and teach you a few tricks to the trade.

i highly recommend vermipost as well as full spectrum mineralization to any garden, whether it be for edibles or beauty.

kind regards,

john

i work closely with the USDA/IFAS/DEP/AG/SFWM depts. IFAS in particular produces volumes of excellent research and recommendations pertinent to florida growers/gardeners.

there are many excellent books available as well, one i highly recommend is "Soil Biology Primer".

for those of you with limited time for books, there are many podcasts available that are simply tremendous. a old favorite of mine is "water follies" as well as many of the interviews john jeavons has done over the years.

Here is a link that might be useful: A good read from IFAS on Soil and Underground Conditions.

Hi - I'm a bit late to this, but FWIW, I learned (over @ the Soil, Compost & Mulch forum, I think) that it's better NOT to dig organic matter into our soil here.Better to spread it over the surface & mix only the top inch or so.There are a number of reasons why - 1 of 'em being nematodes dwell deep & mixing can bring 'em to the surface - another is that the organic matter just disappears when you dig it in & soon you're back to square 1 w/ thin, dusty soil.

Forgive me if someone else already mentioned this, but I did not see it in the comments above.

I've done both & agree that spreading & cultivating lightly (or not @ all)works better than mixing in deeply - esp. w/ my coastal sandy soil.

& if you haven't a compost heap yet, you should definitely start 1 - I've several around my yard = )

I have an old burlap bag. Can I use this to start? Can you use old plastic cat litter buckets or not enough air flow? Sunshine farms, do you think earthworms would eat small floating aquatics like salvinia? I have started composting it and if they would eat it that would be great.

I have buried the ice cubes so we shall see....

My worms were in the first 6 inches or so. I can't dig too deep because of a shoulder prob. I dug compost into the bed but not very deep and some I just put on top because I was pooped. Where can you get things like pine fine and azomite without ordering a truckload? I don't think I have seen them at the box stores.

Thanks,
Pat

sunshine and carol
thanks for the great info. yes nematodes are an issue and I sure don't want to help them reproduce any more than they are. I have noticed that soil that was previously rich becomes sandy which I'm guessing means the nematodes have churned it.
So I guess I should switch from trench to worm composting and use the finished compost.

Sunshine
it's interesting that you recommend "capturing" worms. The sellers of worm bins make it sound like you need specific worms (red ones) rather than common earthworms.

the old burlap bag won't work very well, the worms will be able to exit through the bottom. you could use a large injection or blow container, but it will need to be shaded at all times. these are slow to process as there is much less aerobic activity.

i do not know whether or not aquatics will work, but do not see why they would not.

as for capturing worms, red wigglers are suggested, but florida worms work just fine, why pay for what you have beneath your feet :~)

overall, whatever growing you can do in containers and above ground, gives you more control once you've learned the issues with container growing.

i'll upload some photos of how i grow everything from ginger to tomatoes to dill and coffee. there isn't anything i grow in the ground.

see you next weekend !

john

Here is a link that might be useful: AZOMITE, scroll down to 50lb bag.

i've seen pvc drilled and inserted into the center of a 30 gallon nursery pot to increase aerobic activity, maybe an old length of poly hose with lots of holes would help as well.

they key is the aerobic activity... for that you need air.

you could turn the compost once a week, but this upsets the biology for a short time.

i use 100 & 200 gallon jackpots for all vermiposting. 2 - 100 gallon jackpots will create enough ammendments for 80 - 15 gallon containers every three months... twice a year is sufficient in most cases.

an old sheet works as well... you make a tea bag out of it and place some pvc pipe under it so air can get up under it... this is how i used to compost until jackpots came along.

necessity... mommy to us all.

Here is a link that might be useful: Jackpots