Toni if you visit your local pet store you can find the ground coconut husk we call coir as well as coconut husk chips, both products come compacted as a brick. You can also find fir bark packaged for use as reptile bedding and this is the same type of bark used in most orchid mixes. Hydroponics stores also carry coir and usually at lower prices.

Mike

Mike..your screen name is TreeLover..do you love trees? If so, which types? I'm facinated with screen names..lol

So, are you saying not to use Sphagnum peat in place of Coir? I mix SP for plants that require acidic soil. Actually I mix soils for all plants.
I agree, most potting soils contain peat..I assume, brand names such as MG is mostly peat..a sneaky way to make money..BUT, some stores sell black, rich, house plant soil, w/o peat. Depending on the plant, I add this soil with other mediums.

Mike you said, 'Coir is high in salt?' Can you imagine the amount of salt if Coir is used and fertilizers containing Urea? Wouldn't that kill a plant? Maybe if it was regularily leached, but seems leaching would defeat the purpose? Leaching out salts, fine, but what about nutrients? Are they not leached too?

Mike, I have special blend AV, orchid, bougainvilla, banana, hibiscus fertilizers. lol. Too bad there's no special blend hoya food. lol..it'd make fertilizing a lot easier.
But my question about feeding is, how do we know when a flowering fertilizer should be used 'on hoyas'..how do we know when a hoya is old enough to bloom? Since Hoyas are different sizes, some small, some medium, etc.
Know what I mean?
For instance, I bought two HR's as youngin'..it took several years, and large in size before they bloomed..
Do you think fertilizing with 20-20-20 would work? It's balanced, so wouldn't it contain enough 'P' to promote flowering?
If I decide to go this route, should I use half-strength?

God, I love the phrase, 'if it ain't broke.' lol..Thanks Mike..

Mike fron Ontario. I've gone to pets stores, incluing PetsMart, Petco, Pet Supply, and a neighborhood shop. None had Coir. They did have overpriced alfalfa (for my olive tree) and reptile products, but no coconut products. I've asked clerks, but they had no idea what it was..lol.
The only other option is shopping online, but shipping would be outrageous. I just don't know..Thanks for the suggestion though..Toni

Toni,
Yes, I love trees. I have a number of unusual trees in my yard and I have this little OCD thing with plants, in general. I have around 200 pots of trees and dwarf conifers in my backyard. I need to sell some of them since I don't have the room to plant all of them in my yard.

No, you can certainly use SP in your mix. It's just that SP is not a renewal resource and when it's gone, it's gone. Coir comes from coconut husks, so as long as there are coconut palms, we'll have coir. (:o)

In the processing of coir, sea water is sometimes used and that makes the coir very salty. It is almost a must to rinse the coir in fresh water a number of times to make sure there is no excess salt left in the coir. Yes, fertilizers leave salts behind, but the level of salt is far less than the amount that can be found in some coir. If the coir is very salty, the plant will die in a very short period of time, unless the plant is very salt tolerant. Most houseplants are not very salt tolerant, I would guess. (:o)

Leaching does remove nutrients, as well as minerals and salts (well, I guess salt is a mineral (:o)). When I had my garden soil tested, the U of MN did not test for nitrogen since it moves through the soil so easily.

As far as feeding a bloom-type fertilizer, I would not use this type of fertilizer until the plant starts to produce peduncles on its own. Once the plant has produced peduncles on its own, you can use a bloom-type fertilizer in the spring to help increase blooming. I think that bloom-type fertilizers are probably best used on African violets, streptocarpus and annual plants outside rather than on hoyas.

A balanced, 20-20-20, fertilizer will work just fine. It will supply everything the plant needs in order to grow and bloom. Yes, regardless of the type or analysis of fertilizer used, always use it at half to quarter strength every time you water.

Toni, I have never seen coir or bark in a pet store around here, either. I will need to check the hydroponic store near me to see if they carry coir. There is an orchid greenhouse here that carries coir, but it's very expensive. Maybe the coir in the pet stores is a Canadian thing? LOL
Mike

Mike, what type of trees do you like? Natives like Maples, oaks, etc, and/or tropicals?
If we had a large piece of land, I'd like a variety of trees..including a big, old Weeping Willow and Oak.
We have a huge Maple out back..don't be angry but I wish it'd go away..lol..in spring, seeds fall, root and maples are everywhere..they grow in the ground and potted house plants..yesterday while outside looking over plants, I plucked 30-40 little maples in pots..lol
In autumn, leaves are everywhere. Literally. Including our neighbors' yards. Oh, in spring, seeds fall in the gutter..next thing, there's 1' maple trees growing in the gutter. One branch, less than a foot above electric wires, hits the neighbors' windows. Screeecchhh.
A couple wks ago, during a storm, the neighbors tree fell on our house..What a mess that was!

What type of trees are you selling? I dont know if you can discuss it here..

I like some conifers especially with gold fronds and another with long, soft leaves..

This year I've invested in ferts w/o Urea, but it's difficult locating..it's only available online..pricer plus S&H. My AV's are now fertized with Urea-free food.

I hope those who use coir realize it needs rinsing before use. But honestly, Mike, the average person who buys a plant, (Non-GW'ers) buy whatever soil is available. How many people would, on average, bother mixing mediums? The average person buys a plant, and doesn't want to do anything more than water..Believe me, I worked in two nurseries..I wanted, 'whole-heartedly,' to tell some they should buy an artificial plant..lol. Some didn't want to dirty their precious hands. Many times I ended up repotting plants they purchased in pots way too large, even after explaining they should look for a smaller container..Nope..the pot matched their curtains or whatever, that's what they wanted. Sheesh..Though there were a good number of people who took my advice..thankfully..I felt good
(inside) helping people choose the right plant and container..know what I mean?

I'll fertilize small hoyas with 20-20-20, then alternate All Purpose and Flowering per feeding for large hoyas. That should do it. Thanks for the info, Mike.

I've noticed it's easier finding certain mediums in other countries..heck, even other states. lol.
The warmer the climate, one is more likely to find mediums not sold in the midwest or cold places.
Forget pet stores. I looked for bark to add to soils..I use Perlite and gritty sand (when I find the right sand) but wanted to add bark too. I bought a bag, 9.99, only to find it would harm plants..Ended up giving it to my son who has an iguana..lol..See, even bark is hard to find here.

One problem is, most of my hoyas are w/o names. Therefore, I don't know which are considered large enough to flower. I can guess, but that's all it'd be, a guess.
One hoya is called, 'sorry, only have common name,' Fishtail Hoya..don't know its botanical name. It has several stems, between 7-10"..would have to measure for accuracy. I have no idea if a 10" Fishtail hoya is deemed mature..lol..I also have H. carnosa variegata, but it might be a dwarf..I've no idea. I don't like guessing games. lol

Tomorrow, each plant will get a feeding, ST and ES's. All are outdoors, in a sunny area, getting fresh, humid air. Insect-free to boot..anyway, thanks for all the help, Mike, and take care...Toni

Hi Toni,
I'm into hardy trees and conifers, but I do like to push the hardiness limits as well. I have a couple of tropical trees that I bring into the house or grow in the house all year.

I particularly love the deciduous conifers i.e. Metasequoia, Taxodium, Larch, etc. I love the oaks and maples as well and have a Crimson Spire oak and an Acer palmatum Robinson's Red and Acer japonicum 'Aconitifolium' in my yard. I have been amazed that the Acer palmatum has survived since they should not be zone 4a hardy.

Your big maple is probably a silver maple, Acer saccharinum. My parents have 3 big silver maples in their yard and dad always says in his next life he is coming back without any silver maples, anywhere. One of the big trees is near their driveway and he sweeps grocery bags of seeds up after they fall.

I'm not going to sell anything online; I belong to a couple of garden clubs and they hold sales each year and I'll donate plants to the sales and then I take part in a large, neighborhood garage and I'll sell some at that sale as well.

I am out of urea-free fertilizer and need to buy more. I get urea-free fertilizer at a local orchid greenhouse since orchids are best fertilized with urea-free fertilizer. Depending on where you are in IL, there are some very large orchid greenhouses in and around the Chicago area and you could get urea-free fertilizer from them. Hausermann's Orchids, especially, should carry urea-free fertilizer.

Hoya polyneura, the fishtail hoya, should bloom when the stems are 10" to 12" long, as long as it's somewhat root bound and getting enough light.

I think that most folks that use coir have probably researched it enough to know that coir should be rinsed pretty well prior to use, even if the package states it is ready to use.

Good luck with your fertilizing! I need to do the same for my plants and hope to be able to fertilize everything tomorrow. I may even sneak a bit into my rooting cuttings so they have something to "eat" when they produce roots.
You take care, too, Toni!
Mike

Hey Mike..Do you have Japanese Maple? They ARE beautiful. They're sold here, but I've read they're hardy from z6 and up...We're z5..
Actually, our maple isn't silver..I'd prefer silver to this plain, old pain-in-the-butt, green. A neighbor has silver, another has red..both are large, but symetrical.

So you grow outdoor/native trees inside during winter? If so, congrats..sounds like a lot of work..What temps do you keep the room? Also, do you water?

What type of tropical trees do you have? I'm into tropical or succulent plants/trees, etc.

I don't blame your dad..lol..you'd have to deal with it, to say what he did. It'd be awful if he came back as a maple tree..lol..just kidding, don't mean any offense.

It's been a long time since visiting Hausermanns..too risky. I can't walk in a greenhouse w/o coming out empty-handed..lol..I used to get flyers when they had orchid sales. They also sent a really nice catalog; don't know if I still have it, but it had a ton of information.
I have enough fertilizer to last 2 or 3 yrs..lol..Plus I just got a container of Eleanors..this is a first..Everyone who uses it says it's the best, so we'll see.

Did you finish fertilizing? I'm doing sections at a time. Too many plants and want more..sigh..
I purchaed hanging plant pots..5"..my intent was to repot smaller hoyas in these pots..they're in 4" now..I don't know if I should repot in one size larger pots or not..what to do?

Mike, good luck with your trees and tropicals. Do you fertilize in winter? Toni

I

Hi Toni,
Yes, my Robinson's Red is a Japanese maple. I'm zone 4a so I have been very surprised the tree has survived here. the tree has been in the ground since 2003. The tree has seen -27°F with no damage. Acer palmatum is the Latin name for Japanese maples.

All of the hardy outdoor trees stay outside all year. I don't bring anything in that is hardy or is borderline hardy. Only the tropical stuff is brought inside for the winter.

I have a large, 4' Bursera fagaroides, a 3.5' Didieria madagascariensis and I had a 6' Bombax ellipticum, but it started to go downhill and ended up dying. When I knocked it out of its pot and washed the soil from it's roots, it had been kept in a tiny pot too long prior to my receiving the plant and girdling roots killed the plant. I was bummed since I had had the plant since the mid 70's.

Yes, I did finish fertilizing and I do not fertilize in the winter - usually. Some things that I have under fluorescent lights do get fertilized occasionally during the winter since they never really go dormant or quit growing due to the constant light. I do not fertilize any of my hoyas at all during the winter, though.

Knock the plants in the 4" pots out of the pots to take a look at the root systems. If they have a good root system you could put them into the 5" hanging baskets. It will delay their blooming since Hoyas don't bloom well until they are fairly root bound. But if you want them in the hanging baskets, go for it.
Mike

Mike, as I stated, I don't know much if anything about native trees, let alone their Latin names.
If you get a chance, please post a pic of your Japanese Maple..is it red w/ferny leaves? So very pretty.

I'm surprised it survied this long too, conidering most articles say its hardiness it z6 and up. Do you mulch?
Have you ever checked out worldplants.com? He has the prettiest trees..he ships out 1=2' trees..prices are great.

I'll have to Google your tropicals..the only one I know is Bombax.
Now I'm afraid to check my 'fat plants.' lol..Some have been in the same containers 4-5 yrs. Yikes.
It's awful you lost your old Bombax. Did you toss it? Are you sure it's gone and not just dormant? When they go into dormancy, some fat plants look dead. But since you've had it so many years, I'm certain you're familier with this pattern. I'm sorry though..that's just awful.

Congrats on finishing fertilizing..lol..I'm still working on it, although slow. lol. It takes 3 days to a wk to complete my guys. The reason is different plants get different fertilizers..Plus I add Superhtrive and Epsom Salts..Slow release is the easist, but I feel I'm not supplying the right nutricion, a quickk way to do it, though I admit it's much eaiser and quicker..lol.

Even though plants are under artificial lighting in winter, fertilizing depends on the plants..for instance, succulents do not get a feeding, despite the extra light.
Plants setting out growth and/or flowers get a dossage, 1/4 strength. African Viiolets, Hibicus, and a few others. But they get a dose of ST when watered, once a month.

I'll give the 4" hanging plants a try. I like the idea of hanging hoyas, now if only come up with an idea where to hang them once they're hauled inside for winter..lol. Windows are packed. And there's still a few more plants I'd like to get..lol..I wish we had a solarium..maybe one day..
Okay, got a group of Anthuriums soaking in the sink..they need a dose of food, too..Take care, and once again, thanks.
Don't forget to check worldplants.com Toni

Argh... I hate Internet Explorer. I had typed out a reply and IE all of a sudden sent me back to the main GW page. I don't know why anyone uses Microsoft anything? (I'm a MAC user at home)

Toni,
Yes, I am sure the Bombax was dead. I stored the plant in my basement for the winter and put it outside every year for the summer. The plant had really nice green and brown bark and when the plant died, the green bark turned brown and it got really wrinkly. I did put the plant outside again in the spring "just in case", but it never started to grow.

My Japanese maple has red leaves, but not the really finely dissected leaves. I am just happy to even have a Japanese maple so it does not bother me that the tree does not have the finely dissected leaves.

I am familiar with worldplants.com and I have ordered from them in the past. I have never ordered any Japanese maples from them, however. WP.com has a great selection of unusual plants.

I don't fertilize my hoyas or any of my succulents during the winter. I have some Streptocarpus that I fertilize and a couple of sinningias that also get fertilizer during the winter.
Thanks,
Mike

Hi Mike the Mac user..lol..

Oh Mike, I am so sorry about your Bombax..what was its hight?
I have young Bombax trees, kept in small containers..In winter when they're dormant, they're kept on hold..no fertilizer and very little water, but they're kept near windows.
I'm certain my Bombax and other fat plants are nowhere near as large as yours was, but they are interesting and unusual.
Why do you think it died? Did you do anything different than other winters?

I love JM's but my favorite are those w/ferny leaves..you know which I mean? Sorry, I don't know their botanical names..HD had them for sale one year, but I've read they're hardy from zone 6 and up. Besides, I don't want another tree. I love sun..lol

Mike, are you familiar with Smoke Trees? I have one in the back..do you know how tall they get?

Worldplants.com is one of my fav nurseries. Gerry is a great guy to deal with too..he usually has large selections of trees..in fact, I got my Olive tree from him. So glad too, he no longer sells them.

IMO, fertilizing in winter, especially in cold climates, is a NO-NO. Growth is spindly, and some plants produce small flowers. However, those who live in Fl, ect, can get away with feeding most of the year, but even then, they have short winters, so it's best to refrain during that time. I wish we lived in Fl..lol..although, I would have problems with their bugs..I cannot tolarate spiders..no siree bob..I'd bet some of their spiders are humongous..lol..

Good luck with your trees..I know their care is difficult. Toni

Ginkgo trees are my favorite...Whoops, nobody asked!

Hi Toni,
My Bombax was about 6' tall when it died. The plant was growing in a 12" pot. I am just devastated that the plant died. I got the plant in 1976 or 1977.

Yes, I love smoketrees. Cotinus obovatus (American smoketree) and Cotinus coggygria (European smoketree) are beautiful plants. There is a cross of the two called 'Grace' that I planted but removed due to the plant growing wildly and not going into dormancy soon enough in the fall. There are a number of nice smoketrees (C. coggygria) growing in the Twin Cities. I think smoketrees can get to be 20'+ tall with a 10' to 15' spread, or more.

Yeah, I don't fertilize anything except the gesneriads since they grow all year.

johanna76,
I have to admit, Ginkgo is my favorite tree, too. I have a few in my yard and I just love them. The largest, G. b. 'Saratoga', is just starting to grow a bit. It's not done much the last couple of years.
Mike

Johanna, it's still nice hearing from you..I love talking plants, 'big surprise, lol' so you're welcome to join in anytime you want..I'll have to Google, Ginkgo trees.

Mike, I had no idea there were more than two types of Smoke trees..the two I've seen growiing here in Il..one w/purple leaves, the other green. When I got mine, it was nothing but a stick..ordered from a local nursery that ships sticks for plants..'long story' most ppl think they receive dead plants, leave negative feeback on GWD.
It was said to be purple, but foliage is GREEN..it's been in flower the last month.
Since they grow 20' tall, it'll be pruned after flowering. I dont want another huge tree out back..If it wasn't for the maple, I'd allow the smoke tree to grow full size. truthfully, I prefer fruit trees..Peaches, pears, etc.
No more trees, unless we move somewhere with land.