a little out of focus, but it doesn't look too bad.... how close are the plants getting to your grow lights?

Your pH looks to be about fine: Lettuce 6.0-7.0 0.8-1.2 (taken from link on my Website).

Have you checked for any insects? It almost looks like it's been overwatered and or too little light.

I've found that tomatoes which are "Super-cropped" and repotted utilizing about 8 inches of the stem under the growing medium make for the most robust plants you'd ever want.

Here's a link to Super-cropping: http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/tomato/msg1222213220075.html?63

I agree in that your pH value is alright, although it is a little bit far from optimal, which is around 6-6.5. Remember that the pH scale is logarithmic so a pH 7 solution is 5 times more basic than a solution with a pH of 6.5.

However your plants don't look like that is the problem. My best guess would be a nutritional deficiency . I have had plants that look exactly like that under phosphorous deficiency (do your leaves have a purple underside ?). My best guess is that your solution is too old now (39 days is too long for a single nutrient solution batch). Change the solution to a fresh one and see if your plants improve (however the leaf curling process is irreversible so you shouldn't see an improvement there).

Here is a link that might be useful: Everything Hydroponics

goonie,

I have the exact same prob, I posted mine under Hydro Tomato - Leaf Curl, Roll. I did not post pics, but did give a very detailed account of my probs. I have done tons of research but have yet to find a solution. My plants look identical to yours. Several posters on my thread said Leaf Curl Virus. But another suggested over-watering/not enough o2 (causes increase in ethylene causing epinastic conditions, i.e. downward drooping everything). Also, on other sites it is suggested that the Ram's Horn look (you know, the downward under cupping and apex along the stem) is caused by too much nutes, which I am sure I was doing (what's your ec/ppm?). I will post my pics now that I know how, but would love to keep a dialogue going until its figured out.

Are your stems bending down?

On vaca now, back to garden tomorrow, will let you know . . . testing for both over watering and nute burn for about three weeks now . . . hopefully not a virus.

Good luck.

Hydroacr,

I am using a 250 watt mh, at about 10 inches from the tops.
It was set at 18/6 up until yesterday (day 39) when I switched to 12/12.
Then I'll be switching to a 250 watt hps, when I start to see flowers.
That maybe early to force flower, but I have limited space and not sure how tall they'll get.
Temps at the tops haven't been above 85F, and the bulb has no more than 2000 hours on it.

freemangreens,

I haven't spotted any evidence of insects.
I did make an attempt at "supercropping" the first six inches of the stalk. The stem got thicker in those areas which were pinched.

danielfp,

Many of my leaves do have a purple underside.
At the moment, I am feeding with General Hydroponics (per gallon): 1 tsp FloraMicro 5 - 0- 1
1 tsp FloraGro 2 - 1 - 6 with 1% available Phosphate
1 tsp FloraBloom 0 - 5 - 4 with 5% available Phosphate
I did raise my concentrations a week or two ago to:
3 tsp Micro, 2 tsp Gro, 1 tsp Bloom, but I noticed wilting of the stems on new growth (witch I took to be too much nitrogen). So I flushed with neutral tap, and went back to 1 tsp of each. New growth looks ok so far, but bottom leaves continued to curl.

disinmtl,

I did read your thread, and it does sound like the same problem.
I don't know if it's O2 , as I have a pump running to my reservoir (where my roots are).
I do not have an Ec/PPM meter but as I have stated, I did raise my nutrient concentration recently. It may not have had time to recuperate. The newest stems, off the main stem were curled, but have since straightened.

I am also using the scrog method. Although this problem occured before I added the screen. Here is a view of the full setup.

trying to post pic's for the first time, pls bear with me if this screws up. Just want to compare pic's for reference:

got it now, sorry, hopefully this isn't hijacking, just want to work together to figure it out.

disinmtl,

Thanks for posting your pics. It is a big help.
Please excuse my ignorance, as this is my first grow.
But, I've never seen that type of setup.
Is that some sort of NFT system?
Yeah, it looks like it could get clogged, with some nutrient buildup somewhere along the way.

I too have some leaves that are a darker shade of green.
But most new growth looks to be doing ok so far.
Maybe a stem or two curling under a bit, but not a whole lot changed in the last few days.

I set my lamp to 12/12 6 days ago and growth has shot up about 4 inches. I've also spotted the first set of flowers (3 pairs total).
Tomorrow, I'll exchange my mh lamp to my hps.
I have noticed the temps in the cabinet getting down to 60 F (with the lights off).
I was thinking my reservoir water temps maybe a little too low.
But the rams horn doesn't seem to be getting any worse.
Although new growth still a little wilty looking and curling.

Hey sorry about a delay in commenting, the ole real job was calling. Yeah my setup, I wish I had known about this site, I designed my own . . . hence all the probs, but I think its been a good exp. b/c I have had to learn so much. Heres a full pic:

The PVC is NFT, the mistake I made was filling the entire tube with medium instead of just the pots (more on that later). The others are K-sytle gutters which are working like rectangular flood tables. Eveything slopes toward the drain. I wrap 360 degrees around the light to utilize all the available light (note, I bought my light at an electrician's supply house for 125, its a 1000w hps - not a growers bulb though) and have since removed the aluminum hood.

News on the issue: First, Homedepot and lowes or any garden store sells a soil test kit (burpee) for nutes that I used for 3.95, one time, but beats an ec meter for 100.

Over nutes might have been my prob, but I am sure its watering now - I have drainage problems caused by the vermiculite, I read many commercial growers won't use it b/c it doesn't drain and even those that do recommend 25/75, and I'm 50/50. Also, I have read leaf curl can even be caused by irregular watering, or in the wild, a big rain storm, I think. I tend to saturate my plants when I water and then they drain slow which I think is the source of the prob. Note, I killed off some plants and dug out as much medium as I could to get the tubes more like a proper draining nft. Still have some curl, but blossom end rot has stopped and so has the extreme droop and ram's horn.

What is your medium? Watering Schedule? Drainage time? Did any of it change when your probs started (could the roots have grown farther down to a place with a different level of moisture? Could your drain be blocked/not flowing as usual? Also, for some reason my babies tend to look great and only show stress signs once they mature - my theory is that the top layer drains better than the bottom and once the roots grow down to the bottom they hit the poor draining section and show signs of moisture stress.

Again, let me know how its going, I'll do the same.

Any old pro's out there to give advice to some rookies?

I started my seeds in rockwool, and transplanted them to clay aggregate pebbles (shown here).

I add 1 gallon of solution to the reservoir whenever the levels get an inch below the water line (shown here).

My roots are submerged, (in a tangled mass), inside the reservoir, with an air pump pushing air in 24/7.
Although, I failed to do my research on indoor varieties and my plants are getting too tall. I will more than likely be topping them soon. Here is a photo with the HPS installed. (Day 49 from seed)

Lousy, I think both geolite and rockwool drain well, and your system is designed to have h20 all the time and its aerated. All that cautions against concluding its an over-watering problem, correct? Last try for moisture stress, what's your humidity?

So, I'm at a loss, my room is colder than yours, so unlikely its heat. You seem on top of light distance from plants too (I do have a 1000w hps but it is 20inches away). I rarely recycle my solution, so probably not old solution problem. I'm still without an ec meter, but that burpee thing still shows me off the chart on nute levels despite the extreme flush and medium removal (but the burpee thing it for soil so it could be inaccurate). My problem persists despite healthy fruiting . . . I think, they flower and fruit like mad.

As for the rutgers, don't know, but I can tell yu I have tried about ten and they all have goods and bads, in my opinion. I will say anything Ferry Morse Organic is awesome.

Good luck, let me know.

Hey disinmtl,
My humidity at the time of occurrence hovered at around 45%.
These rutgers plants are Ferry Morse too, just doesn't say Organic on the packet though.
Got any pics of your fruit? A guy on another thread said BER can be caused by stress. Maybe stress causes curling as well. I did pinch the main stems at 3 weeks (my attempt at supercropping). I am also trimming all suckers, even though I let a few of them get pretty long.
Although all six of the plants have some degree of curling, this one is most extreme.

This variety finishes at 80-85 days, and this is day 55.
(The blue cups are vines I'll be moving outdoors in a week or two.)

Hey,

I solved my problem, last place I thought I would, I was UNDER-watered. Once I stepped it up to 2x/day, boom, plants took off and all that curl subsided on new growth. Generally too, the plants began to rapidly flower and the fruit began to grow quicker, and no more yellow. Since yours sit in water, maybe its a similar response to a different stress. I do think the original extreme stem curl was nute burn though. I dont really trim at all, sometimes I pinch suckers.

Pics I can do on three types, the others are too small, but the fourth of july is one of them and man does it grow fast.

Brandywine (burpee, not organic):

Beefstake (Burpee, not organic):

Cherry (Burpee, not organic):

Brandywine was easiest to grow, then beefstake, then cherry.
I think the beefstake is a determinate. Wouldnt recommend growing several types in one basin, they seem to have diff h20 requirements.

can't believe nobody knows why the leaf is curling!!!!!!!!!!! One word, BORON. It won't fix the already curled leafs, thats permanent, and to much will kill your plants dead as a door nail.

did you call me a boron?

Hi grizzman,
Is your nutrient pump running?
Well now... you better go catch it.

andrewrod: thank you for the reply. While my plants have greatly improved when I started watering 2x day, I still curl a bit. Do me and goonie have nute blends that are no good for tom? Can it cause the ram's horn look? How do you jack it up?

Well,
I've been trimming like crazy, cause I've run out of space. My leaves are browning, and curling. Not much change there. It's now day 69 from seed, and there are plenty of flowers, but no sign of tomatoes. The seed packet says it should finish in 80-85 days.
Should I be worried?
Also, does my nightime hours have to be completely uninterrupted for them to bear fruit? Sometimes I go in there during lights out, and turn on another light to check on my vine seedlings.
Thanks

Not good, I had 3/4" tomatoes at day 46 on my plants, out doors, and my strawberry plants had 1/2" strawberries at day 25 plantes from bear root.

I can answer some of your questions from personal exp.: I harvested my first set of brandywine's yesterday (around 90 days old for the plants).

First off, I put the question out there and was told tomato's will set fruit even under 18/6, just they will produce more fruit under 12/12. I have interrupted mine at night and changed the time the lights come off without any problems, so I would say no. I seem to set fruit on almost all my flowers, I'd say greater than 75% ratio for me. All I do to pollinate is keep a box fan about 10 ft from them, I dont tap or use a electric toothbrush. If your not turning your flowers to fruit, then yes, time to worry, plants are too sick to fruit, in my opinion. The only time my I could not get fruit too set was when I was way underwatered, they dried up and fell off.

Here's the theory I am working on presently:

I have seen incredible improvement since I began watering 2x per day, but I still curl. I saw on another post that Grizzman said that plants require more water than nute, so you constantly need to buffer your res with straight h20 to maintain a constant nute level, thus, I think my solution gets too strong and my plants show signs of poisoning/nute burn, b/c whenever I picture hunt for identicals, we look mostly like plants that have suffered insecticides, poisoned. Any thoughts? I might ask grizzman. Oh and I think that too much nute = too much salt = underwatered like symptoms, which again my doubling the water would help.

Note, I had a thought about your plants, I think based on your room size, you should flower from day one, I did on round 2 and its working great, the first set of flowers is 1/2 the size of the ones I veg'd for several weeks, but they all set fruit, and the plants start to flower at around 12 inches, just a thought for size contraints.

Totally agree on the root burn, nute buffer, I did the same thing.

Well, day 78 and now there's three tomatoes about the size of a quarter. However, many leaves and stems browning. I assume that's normal for the end of the plants life cycle.