The problem with marigolds, as I understand it, is that they are bright and showy annuals, and thus likely to show up in the type of landscaping that exhibits more exuberance than taste, a style often regarded as reaching its nadir in planters made of whitewashed tractor tires.

And you wouldn't want that neighbors thinking you were *that* kind of gardener, would you? :)

IMHO, absolute rules of this kind regarding what is tastful seem to come from people who are themselves fighting to improve their level of taste and class, without necesssarily being fully armed for the battle. In a society with class mobility, "jumped-up people" can only have originated as aspirants to that state.

If one regards class mobilty as rendering class meaningless, in the sense that you should treat decently the people waiting on your table today because it's not impossible that you could be the one waiting on their table next week, one then becomes free make one's own rules. (Or at least to follow a different, less absolute and thus less easily stated - and more interesting - set of rules.)

"Well, I *could* plant the brightest yellow, orange, and red marigolds I can find in concentric circles around the mailbox post. Or I could get marigolds in clear pale yellow and few of the pale pastel orange, and work them and some blue and lavender lobelia quasi-randomly into a mixed ground cover planting under the yellow Lady Banks rosebush..."
(Just in case you don't agree with me, the second possibilty is meant to be tasteful :)

IMHO, it is probably even possible to wear blue eyeshadow tastefully, although I can't quite think how just on the spur of the moment. (Hmm... It would help if your eyes happened to be blue. And if it were the 1970's. And if you were female :)

I also can't quite think of how you could put marigolds to tasteful use in a Japanese garden, althought it seems like it ought to be possible (if not especially called-for :)

A design challege for our intrepid forum folks?

Evelyn

(Those accepting the challenge may note that in addition to clear pale, and pastel, yellows and oranges, there are also very pale yellow "moonbeam" marigolds, which look white as long as nothing truly white is in the vicinity.)

INK,
Certain flowers and (I think)flower colors are associated with funerals and mourning. I'll plumb the source for details. ;)

" Does anyone know what certain plants symbolize in a Japanese setting? "
...gosh, didn't we just have a 100 post thread that asked this question?? ;-)
Sorry, I'm incorrigible.
John

Could we try again, please?

Please add to (or correct!) any of the following, scraped up from the odd corners of my memory:

Pine, plum, and bamboo, especially in combination, signal signal prosperity, long life and felicity.

Iris signifies youthful vigor.

Nandina (Nanten) is auspicious, and planting it will bring good fortune (perhaps because it was associated with Buddhist temples in its native India???)
[What, exactly, does "auspicious" mean anyway?]

Camellias are avoided by some because the way the flowers fall unwilted reminds them of decapitation, and are especially avoided by prostitutes becasue the related connotation of "beauty fallen in its prime" (I have read that western prostitutes avoid all cut flowers due to the same connonation, but have no direct knowledge of this :)

Cherry blossoms signal spring, transience, Samurai Bushido, and widespread communal drunkeness :)

The "seven spring herbs" signal spring

The "seven autumn flowers" signal autumn, and are often diplayed in conjunction with Obon festivities

A paulownia tree is planted (but not in the garden: they are lousy ornamentals) when a girl is born, and grows fast enough to provide the wood for her linens chest when she is married.

I'm not sure I can vouch for any of th above, but would like to be further informed or (politely and knowledgeably) disabused.

- Evelyn

Here's a related link... ;-)

Here is a link that might be useful: Symbolism of Japanese flowers and plants

Thank you Evelyn. That is just what I was looking for...excellent.

You're welcome, Inky, but in modesty I should point out that it was SCBonsai who came up with the useful link :)

- E

Hi all

INKY : I do not like and do not use mariygolds.
some informationn said maigold repels nematoda. but maridold attract many spider mites which are very difficult to contole. while I can use systeic granular pesticide , it was easy to controle. most syetemic chemicals are gone nowaday.

Eveylne : I may have to correct some of informations you had and add some. I saved it for you. hehehe

Japanese anise shurb:
we do not use at home garden. Temples may grow it.
Befor we have dryice,smell of dead had to mask, since Japanese anis leave has strong smell,we use anis tree's leave to ease smell of dead. natunaly we do not use at home garden even we have dryice now.
higan bana/ manjushyage :
sorry I do not have English commun name nor botanical name.
when I was 4~5 years old ,I picked up higanbana( it is beatifull flower)and took it to home. my garnd mother soon see it throu it away and told me never bring it to home again. not too long ago, I saw name of "manjushyge" in sutra
I did not book marked the sutar and can not remember which sutra had manjushyage name. it some how related buddhism

when a Japanese die, first thing funeral directer ask is which way is north ? why he want to know direction of north? he will ask that even before asking budget of funeral cost.
knowing direction of north is very important for Japanese at funeral. Direction of the dead have to place toward north.
no matter of what sects of buddhism funeral, dead's head alway place toward north.
simlpy be course Shaykamuni died his head was toward north faceing toward west. sory evelyne, it is not story of flower.;).

seven grass of spring:
it is all edable plants. I use to pick chick weeds to feed chicken we had. I will o eat it but don't know how to cook.
I ate it the other day, tast wasn't bad.
camelea:
originaly it was admired by warriers. not cling on his life, when he have to die , he will die what ever the reason at batlle. if he lost fighting he loose his head. but it show he forght bravely. they see life of camelea flower as warrier.
once war ended and begin Edo piriod, it changed.
warier who made serious misstake often his neck was cut off as punishment. not at battle. flwoer drop from neck become bad luck .

wheeping willow: in old gardenig book of "Sakuteiki" nobles and high society can plants willow tree, in the Sakuteiki, it said eta or low class should not plants willow trees in thire garedn. many marchant do not plants willow tree in thire garedn be course, branch gorw down ward.

I have many more to write about it. but.... I should not spend too much time on garden web . I sould spend more time to write a romantic love letter to CG , ;) ....... mike

Hi, Mike-san!

Thanks, I was hoping you would set me straight :)

Googled for Higan-bana, or Manjushage, and it seems to be Lycorius radiata (Cluster Amaryllis); to be most commonly used as a grave-flower; and to be poisonous. (I got all this off the Internet, so it must be true :)

Quoting from a website on Kitahara Hakushus poem "The Higan-bana Flowers"
(http://www.home.ix.netcom.com/~kyamazak/lit/kitahara-higan.htm):

"higan-bana (Latin name lycoris radiata. Kenkyusha's dictionary calls it "cluster-amaryllis") This is an odd bulbous-plant which lies dormant underground until late summer when it grows out leafless stalks and unfolds its red cluster of lily-like flowers.
The flower is so-called in Japanese because it blooms in early fall coinciding with the "higan" a season to go visit the familiar grave.
Because of the oddity of the leafless blood-red flowers rising from the ground, the unusual season when it blooms, and the fact that they often bloom near graveyards has given it an association, in which the flower is viewed as the manifestation of the throes of anguish from the spirits of the buried dead. []
Here, in representing the word "higanbana", the poet has used an alternate set of characters which would normally be read as "manjushage". "Manjushage" derives from the Sanskrit mañjūşaka and in Buddhism it is a fabled flower in paradise; but it is also another nickname for our higan-bana."

And from Newts Palace, a website introduced with the words "I'm sorry that it's my poor English. I am introducing myself and my family. And I am introducing about Gunma Prefecture, Japan and Minakami Town (my birthplace)." (http://www002.upp.so-net.ne.jp/imori/news_details/news_detail_01e.html):

"As Cluster-amaryllis has poison, sometimes the cluster-amaryllis is planted well to prevent rats and moles to the bank and ridge between rice fields. Because water of rice fields has leaked from holes of rats and moles. []
Cluster-amaryllis is called the higan flower, because it blossoms in the equinoctial week in fall. Cluster-amaryllis is called "Manjushage" in another name in Japan. Most of these are cinnabar red. But in China, Manjushage is the mythical flower said to bloom in heaven. It is white soft flower that blossoms in heaven with one of 4 kinds of lotuses. This is a mysterious case. The code for this flower is sad memories.
Although Manjushage is cinnabar red, I have seen a white one in my hometown. I saw several white Manjushage also at Kinchakuda.
The cluster-amaryllis belongs to Lycoris family and there are various color, white, yellow, the vermilion red, pink, purple color. Lycoris appears the name of the goddess of the sea of the Greek myths.
The cluster-amaryllises are usually in full blossom in mid-September. The cluster-amaryllis blossom season at Kinchaku-da is worth seeing."

Interesting about willow trees not being OK for the lower classes; my parents told me we couldnt plant a weeping willow because we didnt have a big enough yard for such a large tree (we werent really lower class, but werent upper-class enough to have more than an 1/8 acre lot). Eta probably had relatively little land: I wonder if the stricture had a practical basis?

thanks again,

- Evelyn

PS. Mike-san, if you have too much trouble with writing love letters to CG, perhaps this web link might be of use ;)

Here is a link that might be useful: On-line Love Letter Form

Oh, thanks Evelyn! If I get a letter in perfect English, now I'll know where it came from. heehee

Marigolds are used for funerals and on funerary altars or graveside flowers. I don't see them much for those purposes around Tokyo (where yellow and white chrysanthemums are the first choice, with purple also common), but my Hokkaido-born husband won't have them in the house, and he says they are commonly used in rural areas.

Higan-bana (cluster amaryllis) are definitely planted all around the older graveyards everywhere I have lived in Japan, because they flower just at the time of year when people visit graves. However, they are also often planted along ridges in rice or vegetable fields, or in a corner of the home garden.

I know people who are maniacally fearfull of snakes because of what the bible says about them.

> associate chrysanthemums with funeral homes for a reason I do not understand. Was I told this?

I don't know if this has been brought up before, but in China and Japan, chrysanthemums are often used in funeral settings, so it's probably not strange that you associate them that way.

This bit about symbolism is going in the wrong direction, I`d say. If an element works well, then I would certainly want to use it despite someone else`s foolish fears.