Try scienceshopusa.com
They're in Santa Clara
I bought some things from them in smaller quantities so they couldn't have been too much.
they have a physical address if you happen to live close by.

Thanks Grizzman,
Yes. Those quantities and prices are more in the range of what I'm looking for but it doesn't look like they sell nitrates. Any other sugestions?
Thanks again,
Ken

look in the yellow pages for landscape supply or greenhouse supply. they sell nitrates normally, but usually in 25 or 50 lb bags.
I have some calcium nitrate I could send you. Just shoot me your email privately and I'll get you a pound or so. I have a 50 lb bag that just might last me forever. I can't help with other stuff so much however.

Haven't you looked at the label back of a vitanium bottle. Every possible nutrient your looking for is listed. Desolve it in water or take it yourself. Remember organic is having passed thru the stomach of an animal. Use your urine at 1/10 strenght. It's free it's easy and best of all dirt cheap.

Is vitanium a new element on the periodic table?

I'm going to be speaking with a couple people at the local college's chemistry department next week. I will try to remember to ask for a list of resources. I also am wanting to start making my own nutrients.

Be careful with that vitanium, It has been known to produce Weevil beetles and maggots in independent tests on pumpkins and such. LOL !!!!!!!!!!!But it does bring new meaning to the phrase "I make my own nutrients" LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!,LOL!!!!!!! Consumers are demanding less chemicals LOL !!!!!!!!!!!!!! If only they knew LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"Consumers are demanding less chemicals LOL !!!!!!!!!!!!!! If only they knew LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Isn't that why we're here. So that they can find out "all" the answers available. I mean really if people feel that using cow, chicken and bat piss more agreeable than their own so be it. But really what is organic defined as. It's easy to check. But what is in your vitamin pill? Sorry I mean your "vitianium pill"
Folic acid
Biotin
Calcium
Phosphorus
Iodine
magnesium
Zinc
Selenium
Copper
Manganese
Chromiom
Molydbenium
Chloride
Boron
Silicon
Potassium
Phosphorus
Isn't that what we're looking for to feed our plants. As for college, been there, done that and have the ear of many teaching there. So don't be suprised when you ask them what their using in their gardens. And yes I'll admit my spelling short comings I'm a busy man.

Georgeiii,
I use many of those same nutrient sources in my compost pile for my outdoor organic garden. You would probably be amazed at how well a bucket of urine can keep a pile cooking when the outdoor temps drop to freezing. My composting techniques utilize all manner of evil in the ingredients and when cooking, have the odor to back it up. It's strong enough to turn a goat's stomach.
But why do You keep bringing us back to this subject? Isn't there a more suitable forum on the garden web? Why don't you share your expertise, experience, and infinite wisdom over at the organic gardening forum? Or maybe the composting forum?,Going Green, Growing in containers? There are well over 80 different forums, why do you choose this one with which to share your "cutting edge technology"? It seems you feel the need to "convert" us to a new Ideology or something. Did it ever occur to you that many of us on the Hydroponics forum have had extensive experience in conventional organic horticulture techniques long before working with hydroponics? Think about It. OKay?
Now on a lighter note, DO NOT USE VITANIUM INDOORS WITHOUT ADEQUATE VENTILATION!!!!!!!!!!!!!,LOL!!!!!!!!!!DO NOT USE VITANIUM IN AN ULTRASONIC SYSTEM !!!!!!!!!!!!LOL !!!!!YELLOW FOG !!!!!!LOL!!!!!!THE STENCH!!!LOL!!!COULD YOU IMAGINE THE LOOK ON YOUR WIFE'S FACE WHEN SHE WALKS IN THE DOOR???!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!LOL!!!LOL.
Georgeiii your killing me.
Ken

my, my hardclay such an angry little person. But your right I should post on other forums...wait I already did that. But why the arugment?

"But why do You keep bringing us back to this subject?"

Bringing you back? Isn't this a public forum. where anyone can post or say what they want? It's up to everyone to decide what they want to come back too. Hey no pressure here. I give my ideas on how things work for me nothing more. Really after all this is a computer screen, if the information I give is wrong you'll know in a season. Where's the rub.

Isn't there a more suitable forum on the garden web? Why don't you share your expertise, experience, and infinite wisdom over at the organic gardening forum? Or maybe the composting forum?,Going Green, Growing in containers? There are well over 80 different forums, why do you choose this one with which to share your "cutting edge technology"

Sorry, isn't this hyodroponic - water - piss. for me there's kind of a relationship. But don't let that stop you. And thank you for the cutting edge technology praise, I'm a gardener and I do have a little ego too.

Did it ever occur to you that many of us on the Hydroponics forum have had extensive experience in conventional organic horticulture techniques long before working with hydroponics? Think about It. OKay?

Who ever questioned your exertise? Okay I have thought about it....that's why I'm here. I want my different types of containers to be picked at. I put every part with pictures right here. All eight of them. Go to Photobucket.com. There's more that a thousand picture over a 5 year period. I'm not shame. It's under ChristianWarlock. Oh wait you haven't been on here a year yet. See if you were here earlier you'd have seen my postings on the container forum or maybe the Access forum for disabled or the vertical gardening forum they like the Hydro-Tower over there. But this????

DO NOT USE VITANIUM INDOORS WITHOUT ADEQUATE VENTILATION!!!!!!!!!!!!!,LOL!!!!!!!!!!DO NOT USE VITANIUM IN AN ULTRASONIC SYSTEM !!!!!!!!!!!!LOL !!!!!YELLOW FOG !!!!!!LOL!!!!!!THE STENCH!!!LOL!!!COULD YOU IMAGINE THE LOOK ON YOUR WIFE'S FACE WHEN SHE WALKS IN THE DOOR???!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!LOL!!!LOL.
Georgeiii your killing me.

What's with all the caps and bold print??? You need to work on your anger management classes.

It seems you feel the need to "convert" us to a new Ideology or something.

Not me mister, garden any way you feel. It makes me no never mind. I'm here for those in dire need of another way to grow nothing more.

I'm not angry,
I think it's hilarious. But I have questions.
What is the N-Pee-K Ratio Of your formula ? LOL!!!!!!!!!!
What is the EC (Pee Pee Em)? LOL!!!!!!!
What do you use to adjust the Pee H ? LOL !!!!!!!!!!!!!

"cutting edge technology"
Ya, perhaps if your in the 16th century. But if it's cutting edge technology to you georgeiii, that's great. As for me, I'm in the 21th century and just don't get so excited about nothing. As you know hardclay7a, he has no answers for your questions, he'll fart on a plant and call it cutting edge technology (and thinking outside the box). But simply gets defensive (because he doesn't know anything) when anyone asks any questions.

P.S georgeiii, who cares how long YOU'VE been here. You think that makes you better than anyone else? That seems to just have made you think your better than everyone else. So as far as I'm concerned you can stick that argument where the sun don't shine. Perhaps it will grow something and you can call it cutting edge technology.

I was sitting down the other day having a laughÂwait IÂm still laughing. But really guys I have other places to be. IÂm going to show people how to make their own light closets. For about $80 bucks. Cheaper if you look thru recycling. The first one I made only cost ten bucks. That right a 6 foot tall - 2 feet by 4 feet wide. Three shelves. 6 shop light closet. 32 plants per shelf or 96 plants per closet. Not only that but 4 light closets will use less electric than a thousand watt medal halide bulb. ThatÂs 384 plants. Then I have to go and show how to over winter some of the vegetables. Using the same light closets. See thatÂs the other thing that people are looking at on Photobucket. How do they save their plants for next year. Gives you a great head start. So many forums so little time.

Homehydro,
We shouldn't be so harsh on Georgiii, we want him to stick around as we all need a good laugh once in a while. Sometimes we take ourselves way too seriously.
Georgiii,
Please share more details regarding your lighting system, and over wintering methods, as I am very curious.
But don't neglect the Growing Under Lights forum or the Four Season Gardening forum. It would be sinfully shameful to deprive others of your infinite wisdom and Knowledge acquired through so many years of experience.
P.S.(Pronounced "Pee Yes") LOL!!!!!!!!!!
Your typing and spelling has greatly improved.
That Vitanium Pissmelling must have felt quite embarrassing, oops, I meant Vitanium misspelling,LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Okay, back to the actual subject, hydrponics nutrients (rather than discussing something that would add a bunch of sodium and urea to your system and kill your plants)

I got mine on EBay. You can get a couple pounds of your average nutrient for $10 or so, incl. shipping (some cheaper, some more expensive). Get your magnesium from magnesium sulfate (Epsom Salt), locally -- it's dirt cheap that way. Also, you may find that it's good to have some calcium sulfate onhand -- you can buy that locally, too, as Plaster of Paris (although it'll often come with some silicate impurities that may leave a slight precipitate). Without CaSO4, we found it hard to come up with a formula that would give our tomatoes enough calcium without overdoing the nitrate.

The light box for $10 is easy to do, how hard is it to build a box. And when he says recycled he means savaging for materials (something I do all the time) either from things around the house or from friends and neighbors, even dumpster diving etc.. They can easily be built with most any wood products (and a few hinges). You can even build them out of tubing, PVC, metal etc. (or any combination of wood and tubing), using the tubing as the frame, then wrapping it with anything thin (and hopefully reflective). You can scavenge all sorts of wood products from construction sights, they are always throwing away useful pieces. Even ducting for ventilation and home made light reflectors.

For a tubing design a cheep and readily available thin outer material could be cardboard from boxes (everyone is throwing away) and paint the the inside white. Or how about taking apart the thin paneling from interior doors. Construction sights are often throwing stuff like that away. Using florescent lighting, and ventilation, there wont be any fire hazard at all with good spacing. There are hundreds of ways to build a box cheep. Cutting edge? No, just thrifty.

Add a few scavenged florescent light fixtures, a few scavenged fans pulled out of old electronic devices for air circulation. For the plants you can use any number of designs, trays cups buckets etc.. Although I'm sure that georgeiii likes his Squirt (of no nutrients) method. so there is no need for a reservoir or pump. There you have it "cutting edge technology." Impressed? With what the ability to savage materials, or a little imagination to put it together? Woo-Hoo!!!

Over winterizing is nothing more than pruning and cold storage for a few months. I can do this in a dozen ways, but it still only comes down to pruning and cold storage. And is only necessary for some plants. Over winterizing has been around since what, the 18th century. Cutting edge, I think not. And georgeiii never shares anything usefully about his setups.

I live in a small town (about 40,000 people I think) that's about a 3 1/2 hour drive from a large city (with millions). I am hoping to find a brick and mortar business here locally that I can find mineral element myself, at least some. Does anyone have an idea of what kind of business may carry them? Epsom Salt is not a problem, I can get that at the grocery store. But there seems to be so many different forms of the mineral elements, and a need to have multiple forms of them on hand.

I have found some online sources, but none of them seem to carry all forms of the different mineral elements in one place. I was hoping to make ordering less confusing, and reduce the need for multiple shipping costs because of ordering from multiple online stores. And again it would be great if anyone knows of possible local sources that I might try. I think I need to compose a list of sources, and what mineral elements each source carries, as well as there minimum order sizes.

"The light box for $10 is easy to do, how hard is it to build a box."

Then build one. Ha! Really a six foot tall two feet by four foot wide three shelf unit with two lights per shelf. Build it. Show us your design? Get back to us when you got something.

And hardclay

What is the N-Pee-K Ratio Of your formula ? LOL!!!!!!!!!!
What is the EC (Pee Pee Em)? LOL!!!!!!!
What do you use to adjust the Pee H ? LOL !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Those question have no effect with Non-Nutrient Hydroponics. The ratio question is really what ever is on the shelf. Urine is 1.5 - .3 - .3. You can change that by what you drink or eat. As for the ph I don't need to adjust it. It stays 5.8 to 6.8. That's with a system that sealed, no water pumping, no nutrient soup for the roots to sit in needing only a "squrit" of nutrients every three days. But you guys know that already.
karen If you have calcium build up on your shower head just fill your system with hot water and let it cool down. Don't run hot water thru your system it will mess up your seals. That's your calcium, iron etc, etc micronutrient problem solved. This ia free and open forum what ever works for you use it. Look under The Dark Garden that shows the different containers the Non-Nutrient Hydroponics works with.

Karenrei,
Yes, let's try to get back to the actual subject. I like the P.O.P. Idea. Arts and craft stores Should carry it? They're everywhere around here. Precipitate shouldn't be a problem. Any idea of it's purity? Or does it vary from brand to brand?
Morton salt substitute contains about 96% potassium chloride and small percentages of fumaric acid, tricalcium phosphate, and monocalcium phosphate according to the patent and what is on the container (a little vague but accurate enough for our purposes). Another source of soluble Potassium could be various Brands of that ice melter stuff so readily available in the north. Does anyone use Borax all natural laundry detergent (sodium tetraborate) as a source of boron?
Homehydro,
Your absolutely right. It's largely the cost of shipping & handling due to the fact that you can't order everything that you need in the quantity that you need from the same source. I'm surprised that in a Country with such great opportunity, small business has not yet jumped on this market. I would go into this business myself if I had the capital.
Georgiii,
I found two more forums on the G.W. that may be of use to you; Garden Experiments, & Garden Junk.
Good Luck,
Ken

Ebay? I seriously didn't even think of that.

Man, you guys are mean to Georgeiii. I haven't seen (not saying they don't exist, just that I haven't noticed) where he has been demeaning or anything. I only made the joke about "vitanium" because it really does sound like something that belongs on the periodic table. I would have made that joke no matter who wrote it, so I hope Georgeiii didn't think I was personally picking on him. We all make typos. I just couldn't pass that one up.

I also have to agree that unless someone is being condescending to anyone and everyone that expresses a different opinion, they have the right to post whatever they want in a gardening forum. Just as others have the right to express disagreement. The fact is, I disagree with some of the concepts Georgeiii suggests. However, a lot of conventional knowledge has been found to be a "known" because someone wrote it and everyone else believed it without actually testing only to later be confirmed as myth. So, though I disagree with Georgeiii based on what I know from studying books, I can't say I am 100% certain his claims are invalid.

You're right Joe ,
We shouldn't ppppppppppppppppppppppick on georgeiii so much oh crapppppppppppppppp now my ppppppppppeeboard is screwing uppppppppppppppp

Like I said anger management. Guys I can understand that finding out that you been wasteing your time on wasteful methods of doing hydroponics but there's no reason to piss over your self about it. Have some dignity man. Back to point I was going to suggest using match heads as another cheap source of micronutrients but the systems don't work the same. Mine works on locally introduced while your is a flood and drain or variant of the same. It would work on a Dutch bucket system tho.

Georgeiii;
If you have calcium in the water, why do you need to heat it up then cool it down?
Could you alternatively just run some hot water out you tap and just let that cool down?
thanks.

There's a miss understanding. I use hot water straight from the sink. I let that cool down.
Interestingly enough I went to several of those forums including Growing under lights and yes there were things I knew that I took for granted that they couldn't put together as two and two. They weren't trained to see the connection. Now they can triple their yeild in the same space using the same size container.

hardclay:

I think most POP is about 80-90% purity. You don't need to be too precise with calcium or sulfur, so a ballpark figure should be fine.

Indeed salt substitutes and "green" de-icing salts are potassium chloride. But be careful, because you don't want too much chlorine. Same goes with borax (sodium tetraborate) -- you don't want too much sodium, and it's easy to get sodium in your solution. Although to be fair, you don't need too much boron, so I'd think it'd be fine**. Most people use powdered boric acid, which you occasionally can find locally (as an insect killer). I just got mine online.

** -- That was my attitude toward sodium silicate versus potassium silicate. The potassium silicate cost over twice as much, and since you don't need a ton, I decided just to go with the sodium. My sodium level should be in the ballpark of 35ppm.

georgeiii
Okay, I did misunderstand that part. But really my curiosity is more why does it need to start off hot and then cool versus just taking cold water out of the tap?

Karenrei,
Thanks, I was going to attempt to use some TF MagiCal I have on the shelf along with some Epsom salt but magnesium levels would have been real high in relation to calcium & sulpher. I too have been wary of too much Sodium & chlorine until last week when I tried Daniel's Sodium Hypochlorite recipe for cleaning up a root fungus. It calls for 1ml clorox bleach per liter of nutrient. I used 35 ml for ten gallons. It smelled quite strong. But I was amazed when the plants showed no signs of stress, unbelievable.
Thanks again,
Ken