I agree. An appreciation for scale, color, mass and layout are what is really needed. A spiritual input can be effective in situations where it is appropriate to the locale, but it is not necessary or desireable in most cases. A Japanese Garden is a place to enjoy and interact with nature. If one is lucky enough to have one, there is a never-ending list of chores to do, always reaching for another dimension of reflecting nature or exercising one's abilities and talents (if any) in construction, maintenance or improvement.

Isn't Japanese Gardening a religion? Did you have a particular Religion in mind mike, a Religion that cannot be by-passed?

I have been told that my message sounds like I am bating you mike, which means trying to get you to say more than you want to say. In fact, the opposite is true. As you must remember from past experience, there is no surer way to alienate people than with religious talk, whatever the religion. So I am suggesting that you leave this out if you are still trying to guage interest in classes.

Hi all

inky

I have spend lot's of time to study relationship between Buddhism and Japanese garden, I thought that there are alway relegions in Japanese garden with Buddhism.. More I study history of Japanese garden, I can see many things such as stone lantern, name of stones how japanese garden designed is base on sutras of three pure land Buddhism. We can't chenge history .

However
Some of stone named such as keiai seki,
[ kei= respect, ai= love] meoto iwa [ cuple or hasband and wife stone] . If you can name stone reprenting your family/ you and your wife/partner stone. children stone , parents , brothers and sisters, uncle (s) aunt (s)stones Instead of naming three Buddhs or diety of Buddhism or Shinto, or something else.
You can have hasband wife stone in midle of the garden. your childen are front of parents stone faceing crazy direction but colse to parents stone, garnd parent stone set behind hasband/ wife stone watching grand child and thire son dauther inlaw ? quietly waching family growing and redy to help to them when they needded. Freinds and relative , name your favorite person (s) and make story your self.

If you understand why Japanse garden is giving quiet, peacefull, tranqil place, employ same technic to your garden. If you are christian and don't want to have any religious story in your garden, I think it can be done.

I have helped my friend who are uniterian, they are much open than other christian churchs.
we set stone hasband and wife stone, hasband stone slitly lager and heavy, hasband stone and wife stone leaning to each other suporting each other but stones are not touching
They are as unit of one , but independent some how. they had one child. so we set stone nera parents stone but facing differnt direction and we had small space for child plant flower she like to have/her choice , she pick whatever she like to have. if plant is not best chice and die shorly , it is ok. she enoy to pick own and spent time with parents at garden. She can tell her friends that her plants and stone reprenting her parent and her self.
We also set garnd parents stone behind hasband /wife stone. One day when my friend and I were talkig how we set stone, His parents visited. my friend's Dad said " mike Bruce have tow brothers and sister, you know that ? " so we set brother and sister stone also.
Shortly after we finished most of work, My friend's father past way. The Stones reparenting his father has great meaning to him , his family and me now.
If we understand and employ Japanese garden technich which provide pecefull place.
Many peoples trying to copying Japanese garden , start working without knowing why and how to do it .

I have been walking in woods and shore line of local dry out lake past few days. Looking for intresting shape and color of small stone and drift wood for my moss bonsai and moss planting with samll tree or weeds on small rock, tray , Floor tile etc. I found small section of wooded are which growing moss beautifully and some trees, weeds. I just sit down to watch moss and trees weeds.
If i creat similar to this landscape, It would be fine Japanese garden without any religion. Or jsut simply condense nature /scenery to garden, it will be just like Japanese garden without religion.
Knowing how to prune properly, how to work around moss, and care, you will be Japanese gardener. ^^.
delicate plants , you can bring those palce into your garden designe. You can add some stone lantern or any stone garden ornament to right place , right size.
To create intrest in landscaping, you do same. Right ?
( If some one want to place Oribe toro and thinks statute has Christianty, I won't ague it. Hehehee.).
Plese send e mail to Cady and leave your address and home or business phone number, I can call to Canada withou long distance fee.

Either you like or not We are friend ^^.

By the way, do you have "Sakuteiki" by Jiro Takii, mark keane.
I am studying Sakutiki and sansui narabini yagatanozu (In the book of Sakuteiki by Mark keane, "sansuinarabini yagyozu" ) I am doubl checking historical fact in the book. It is very good book. no doubt about it. but found some minor mistake in the book or other scholar may have differnt opinion about some historical facts.
If you are intrested learn about Buddhism ,I can send you some books in English. And keep it only between us ^^. Learning is never end. To bad, we ca't talk face to face, Talking with a glass of wisky in had wouuld be wonderfull ^^.( Forget gout for a while. shee~ ~ Can't tell to CG )

Sorry . But it is fact that Japanese garden in past and present had and will have religion if you care. Can't separated it. But If you call it Nature garden or something else , we can leave religion alone ^^

To others.
If you are Christian and don't want to have any religious object in your garden but like to have quiet, peacefull garden, Gardening /landscape design is another form of art. I can make story of the garden without religion, so do you.
You don't have to have Buddhism in your peacefull garden.

If you are open minded person and can have traditional Japanese garden in your property, That is great too. Just know history of it and not think as religious object.

Have safe and happy holidays.
mike