If you want seedling iris with modern form and all of the bells and whistles you have got to cross the latest with the latest.

When I use the new x new, I get a lot of bad flowers,too, but nothing quite so 'ancient' as what you showed.

I've always heard that you get one keeper out of a thousand seedlings. That is probably true.

Walter Moores

Walter, One out of a thousand and that is for you people that know what you are doing. I will just get my iris from all the beautiful ones that people like you have developed for us. I am going to plant the seed from the bee pods if there are any there. I am probably going to end up with a bunch of what you would call ugly. In 4 years I have not thrown any alway yet and people and given me a lot that I probably would never have purchased. So far I have not seen any iris that I did not like at least a little. Some are much more pleasing to the eye than others. One thing I have noticed on my hill is that the modern iris are much more likely to set bee pods that the historics. Is this generally true or just something that is odd about my location. Lee Mincy

Remember, there are several Dykes' Medal winners whose parentages are unknown. Stepping Out, Debby Rairdon, and Dusky Challenger are good examples.

The lady who hybridized DR said she deliberately made the cross but forgot what pollen parent she used.

SO and DC, I believe, came from spilled seed. I have heard that the Schreiners have made educated guesses about the parentages, but prefer not to release the information. Supposedly, the hired help makes the Schreiner crosses, but the help is told what to cross with what.

Drady is old and it is loaded right now with bee pods. I hope there are some fertile seed in some of them.

In the pictures for this thread both irises show older form. Even though Stunning is not that old, it was not characteristic of the form of the seventies. It looked old fashioned when it was introduced but supposedly the color carried it to 'stardom.' A lot of irises introduced by Nelson and Morgan(Stunning)were unknown, or they knew the pod parent but not the pollen parent. Probably they just planted bee pods.

Walter Moores

I think I am correct in saying that Morgan introduced far more than one would expect, and I suspect that the quality was not high. I only suggest this because if the strange use of names Plic, Rosy Plic, double plic, etc, that suggest to me there was a lot of enthusiasm and not a lot of thought.
Even modern iris will throw back to older form occassionally, but some hybridisers do produce a large number of lovely and desirable seedlings that may never be introduced, because they are so selective. Take for example, all the lovely Decadence seedlings Barry Blyth showed us in his catalogue a couple of years back.

Sparaxis,

Surprisingly Morgan intro'd only 18. Of the ones I looked up, they were all 'parentage unknown.'

He operated "Iris Test Gardens" and wrote so enthusiastically about his intro's as if they were all great breakthroughs. He captured the interest of many, who later on found out they had been 'had' when the flowers bloomed. I can still remember people talking about Morgan irises in non-complimentary terms.

Superstition lists one and says it is a good iris. I never saw this one so I cannot vouch for it.

Yes, their names were thoughtless. Stunning probably was the only one anybody ever used in hybridizing.

Thoughtless names are still being used today and some irises with these names are winning awards.

Walter Moores

The extent to which that seedling is a throwback is amazing!

The only iris I've grown from seed are the species japonica and versicolor so there were no surprises there. However, I've grown some roses from seed that were just duds. Three seedlings from Nasturana especially come to mine -- one was a mini (or wouldn't grow) and the other two were monsters that looked just like R. multiflora when they bloomed, LOL. I have one from Therese Bugnet that could be a good plant and is also a bit of a throwback -- it has more rugose foliage than Therese Bugnet and flowers that are about 1/3 smaller than the species but are fragrant and cerise pink. Another is a seedling from what may be Mme Ernest Calvat (the plant was mislabelled in the nursery); it's nice but doesn't have as many petals as its parent. I'll have to see how these roses perform as garden plants in the next couple of years before I will know whether they're worth keeping or not. Although I knew breeders had to go through a lot of seedlings to get what they wanted, this experience reinforced this even more. Breeding can be a lot like the lottery unless you can grow a lot and throw away a lot.

Thank You, Walter, for offering your advice. I was really hoping you would. :o] The above seedling has a few siblings that haven't bloomed yet and I'm really curious to see what they look like. The one good thing about seedlings like the above is they make room for other seedlings (compost pile :o). I can imagine how much work goes into hybridizing thousands of seedlings and my hats off to all those who do it. I'm just a step up from a bee and just curious what I'll get. Thanks again for taking the time to write. This thread is very interresting to me and I'd love to hear more opinions if there are any.
Sparaxis, Thanks to you too for your advice. I too have seen some awesome seedlings that well known hybridizers created that were never introduced. They didn't make the cut for some reason and I'm sure it was because the seedling was lacking in something. There are so many things they strive for in an iris anymore (and being a buyer, I'm very thankful they do!)
Thanks again everyone!
heidi

I have always read that to keep bees from messing up your crosses you should always remove the falls after daubing your pollen. This way the bees can't land and add more pollen to what you alredy did.

Mike

Excuse me for bringing up an old thread but I was looking for information on pollinating irises and came across this thread. Am I correct in understanding that the first picture, everyone says is ugly? - or just that it has an olden look and not impressive?

Hi rockgnome
You know, I've been pondering this question all year. At the time these bloomed, I didn't necessarily think they were ugly, but they were not what I had in mind. So I dug them up and pitched them (all except a couple that my mother wanted). However, there are two that I pitched that I'm wishing I hadn't... The blooms were rather small, but they were really unique. One had dark purple falls that looked just like velvet. And, of course, they were awesome multipliers. I LOVE the new, big, full looking iris and make orders every year. But for our climate, sometimes I need to look at what's going to make it year after year and bloom reguardless of what mother nature gives it (as every year I lose a few that I've previously bought). So I think from now on, I may find a spot for some of these seedlings that don't quite make the mark (or what I had in mind when I made the cross), just as long as they bloom their heart out for me and I see something neat in them.
I also love oldies, which may be why I'm struggling with throwing these seedlings that are far from modern looking...
Thanks for bringing up this old thread. It got me back on the GW iris forum. I've been away too long. :]
Heidi

Well. about 2 years ago I was bit so hard by the bug for older Iris it hurts! I haven't got alot of them, but the ones I do have sure bring me alot of pleasure. Yes, I have several of the bigger ones and I love them too.

Your baby picture is just down right pretty to me!I've heard it said before and I say it often, I've never seen an ugly Iris. So to me, I say enjoy your babies. You never know when the tide will turn and the historics will be all the rage, like they are to me now.

Hope everyone's weather is beginning to get better. Blessing to you and yours, Mona

I have very limited experience with hybriding, but I have been pleased with my results. It's doubtful any will be Dykes winners, but I find it hard to part with them. My records are extremely poor....and I tend to use multiple pollen parents on the pod parent.

Silverado makes a great pod parent for me.

"In Reverse" has given me some good seedlings.....and my guess is that "Honky Tonk Blues" has to be the father or the mother.

I just love to plant these things and see what happens. It's become more fun seeing what I get than seeing what my new ordered rhizomes end up looking like (the known vs the unknown.

I just can't wait until my new seedllings start opening up in the next week or two.

I don't think the first iris is ugly at all, just old-fashioned. In fact I love historic iris.

how long did it take for your iris to flower my ons are a year old nd are only a foot tall

Thanks Mona and alicia. You can see more of my seedlings at the link below. They'd be under the 2006 iris album.
Stuart, we live in a pretty harsh climate, so most of my seedlings take 3 years to bloom. If I get bloom on a seedling that's only two years old, chances are, it will not make the winter. It takes too much out of it. Kinda like re-bloomers. Everytime I've had an iris bloom in the fall, it dies that winter.
Depending on your climate, I'd say two to three years.
Heidi

Here is a link that might be useful: Iris album

Probably shouldn't be posting to such an old thread, but I was wondering if you kept this seedling and how it did. I actually think it's very beautiful! The color of the standards is excellent! Might be fun to keep breeding it into newer irises and see whay you get.
Ann

Hi Ann
I no longer have this seedling, but my mom does. I agree about the color of the standards. Very unique.
Thanks for the compliment!
Heidi

Heidi,
I looked at your photo album and you have many beautiful seedlings. I love Pearly Girl and the Tiger Honey x I've Got Rhythm cross and several others. The Chantilly cross is a unique and lovely color.