Thanks Judy. I'll check them both out. I'm pretty excited about this so I hope it works out this time. I've been going crazy doing fall cleanup over the last few weeks and have moved some plants from the place I'm going to plant the hydrangeas. I think they were getting too much shade to thrive so hopefully my new hydrangeas will get the shade they need.

Thanks again, Annette

Hi Annette,

The only thing I have to add regarding varieties is this:

In central Florida, we have a growing season that is almost twice as long as in most of the areas where this plant is commonly grown.

In Florida, we have to really work hard to have beautiful, healthy, lush hydrangeas.

In light of those two factors, I try to select hydrangeas that will give the most reward for the longest time. The types you have selected are indeed beautiful (although I am not familiar with Universal) but to the best of my knowledge they are not known to be continual or repeat bloomers. I would recommend that macrophyllas that are going to be focal points in your landscape, be of this nature and then perhaps you can scatter some of the more obscure 'not so long blooming but still very worth having' varieties around and in between your non-deciduous shrubs and perenials. This way you won't be staring at empty twigs for seven out of the 10 months of our growing season....yg

Can't comment on the other two, but 'Hamburg' is one of those large hydrangeas that would rather not stay in 4' range given the right growing conditions. Friend in Long Island, NY (z7) have it for 3 years and from 2G baby it become 6-7' tall and about as wide behemoth.
Practicaly identically looking, but smaller in statue is 'Princess Beatrix'. Another relative, even smaller, is 'Masja'.

yg, Thanks, do you have any suggestions for repeat/continual bloomers for this area?

Thanks ego45. Sounds like that one will be too large for my space.

Annette

Annette,

Here are some macrophylla varieties that are reported to be repeat bloomers or free flowering over a long duration:

Nikko Blue, Endless Summer, Madame Emile Mouillere (a nice white mophead that puts up with our heat like a champ), Mousseline, General Vicomtesse DeVibraye, Penny Mac, All Summer Beauty, Glowing Embers, Altona, Lilacina (a lacecap with great color and a lot of staying power) Hanabi or Fuji Waterfall, Forever Pink (dwarf) Ami Pasquir... and there are more to be found with a little research. (Don't forget to consider the Oakleaf hydrangeas, when the blooms are gone, the foliage alone is worth the price of admission) Be careful...if you are getting your descriptions and growth characteristics from on-line nursery sites, please verify the info from more than one or two sources. Many on-line nursery sites will tell you that their hydrangeas can do cartwheels and cure cancer if it will get you to buy from them. Although I have had mixed experiences with their plants, Wilkerson Mills is usually pretty realistic about performance expectations in the south and they don't seem to push the hardiness zone limits just to sell more plants. If you are really smitten and/or obsessed with hydrangeas, Michael Dirr's book, 'Hydrangeas for American Gardens' is a great source of info and includes a listing of many of the most commonly sold hydrangeas and their qualities. A site I would recommend to familiarize yourself with 'how to grow' info in easy laymen terms is 'hydrangeashydrangeas.com' Doing your homework (so to speak) before you start planting will go a long way toward making the entire experience much more rewarding. Good luck and let us know what you end up with.....yg

yg,
Thanks so much...I'm off to investigate :-)

Annette

Wilkerson Mills...that's the one. Not 'Wilkinson's', as I earlier reported. I ordered three Madame Emile Mouillere plants and an alba Beauty Berry from them a couple of weeks ago. They arrived in just a few days and were great plants.

I wonder, yg, if Lukas gets some of their hydrangeas from them. I bought two ratty looking "classic white mopheads" from them the last time I was there. The tag said they were "Georgia Grown."

judy

Judy,

I am not sure about where Lukas gets them from but I do know that when you see a hydrangea tagged as "classic white mophead" it is usually synonomous with Mde Emile Mouillere and Wilkerson Mills refers to their Mde Emile in that manner. Did you pick up those three 1 gal for $48.00? Gee, I had my hand on the button to click "buy now" but then I remembered that I just don't have room for them. I am however, trying to reproduce the 3 yr old one I already have by the layering method. You would not believe the trama that this plant has suffered in my yard this season (including my neighbor dropping a fence on it) and still, the half that was left (I could have throttled him) hung right in there and bloomed profusely (on almost every bud the length of the stem) and the blooms last a long time and go through many interesting color changes as it fades. She is in a row along the dreaded fence with 5 other hydrangeas and yet rarely wilts when the rest do. And don't let the small buds and fairly thin stems fool you, this plant is strong and holds up all of those mopheads on those stems with almost no flopping. I can't recommend her enough and I am relatively positive you will be impressed with this one too. Only problem is... Wilkerson seems to send pretty puney 1 gals so you might have to wait another year or so to fully appreciate all of it's virtues, but well worth the wait........yg

Wilkerson Mills...that's the one. Not 'Wilkinson's', as I earlier reported. I ordered three Madame Emile Mouillere plants and an alba Beauty Berry from them a couple of weeks ago. They arrived in just a few days and were great plants.

I wonder, yg, if Lukas gets some of their hydrangeas from them. I bought two ratty looking "classic white mopheads" from them the last time I was there. The tag said they were "Georgia Grown."

judy

Don't know how I managed to post the same message twice. Probably couldn't do it again if I tried.

Yes, yg, I did buy the 3 @ $48 white mopheads from Wilkerson's. They sent VERY nice plants...much nicer than the Annabelles I got from Wayside last fall which promptly died. Since I had purchased their 2 yr. guarantee, they replaced them last week with MUCH nicer/larger plants. It remains to be seen if they'll bloom. They say they're suitable for Zone 9, but I notice Wilkerson's draws the line for Annabelles at Zone 8. Will keep you posted.

I can relate to the neighbor's fence crushing your plant. I left DH in charge last week when we had a tree removed. It came down on my H. veitchii that was doing so well. I stuck the broken branches in the dirt along the back fence and will hope for the luck Hay has had in getting his to root.

judy

Judy,

I would be EXTREMELY interested in hearing about how the Annabelles do. That's one I've always wanted but have shyed away from due to the hardiness zone factor. As I have mentioned before, my garden space is at a premium and I can't have any slackers occupying valuable hydrangea real estate! I would happily give the shovel to a couple of the others to replace them with Annabelles, but only if they thrive, not merely survive.

Glad to hear Wilkersons sent you nice plants (maybe Fall is the right time to buy)....oh no...my clicker (shopping) finger is getting itchy!!! You shouldn't have told me that the plants were so nice. I've really been eyeing up those Ami Pasquir, also 3 for $48.00. I wish they would let me mix them up and get 3 different varieties for that price... Oh boy, this is how I get in trouble.....yg

Annette,

I got to thinking about your initial flower choices so when I got home tonight, I looked them up in Dirr's book.

Although Hamburg is not listed as a repeat bloomer, it is noted for it's blooms lasting an unusually long time which is the next best thing. However, EGO was right about the size, Dirr calls it massive. Amethyst is not long blooming but it is a late bloomer that only gets 3 to 4 ft tall, so if planted with or in front of other earlier blooming varieties, it will provide new blooms when the others are on the way out and thereby create a longer overall bloom period by different means. If you really like this cultivar (and it IS a beauty) well, let's put it this way, where there's a will, there's a way...go for it!! Also, very few varieties will mature at only 3-4 ft but there is no reason you can't keep most of them in check with proper pruning. (if you absolutely have to).....yg

This is what's on my list right now but I still need to narrow it down some since I don't have too much shade in my yard: Oakleaf (smaller oakleaf that's supposed to be good in warm humid areas), Nikko Blue, All Summer Beauty, Glowing Embers, Ami Pasquir, Tovelit and Enziandom.

When they say that the flower will be purple in acidic soils will there be any blue in the flowers? Also, do you think the plants will do OK on the North wall of my house? I have a space on that side of the house where I could place one too.

I ordered Dirr's book, I love books, so it should be here next Wednesday.

Judy and yg, thanks again for all your help.

Annette

I have them planted all along a north facing foundation and they love it except for a short time in summer when the sun moves directly overhead. They (Nikkos) handled it quite well overall but the blooms don't last very long under direct sun. This year I will be planting a couple of crepe myrtles or ligustrum to address that problem. If unlike me, you have a deep overhang, that might be enough.

Plants that are listed as purple in acid soil (as opposed to blue in acid soil) are usually the ones that are strongly pigmented to the red side (there is no such thing as a true red hydrangea but the term "red" is used to describe dark berry pink) and therefore resist blue-ing in all but the most highly acidic soils. They will usually translate as grape or wine purple, but each cultivar is different. Ami Pasquir, Glowing Embers, and Tovelit will most likely color up this way without the use of add'l aluminum. I was originally opposed to any pink in my yard (especially that pepto bismol pink that you see sometimes) but that was before I planted Glowing Embers. The color is so intense and bright that at dusk it almost looks like the plant is on fire. (hence the name) It truely lights up the planting bed with the added bonus of great foliage. I just ordered Ami Pasquir (and Annabelle) this morning (Judy's fault) along with a few others. I wanted Westfalen, but when I called I was told something very interesting by Wilkerson Mills...In their experience, the very deep colored macs (Enziandom would probably be one as well) seem only to bloom on the outer terminal buds and not on the buds formed lower on the stems. Since I try to avoid 'one shot wonders', I opted for Ami Pasquir instead of the deeper, smaller Westfalen. Ami is a little more sun/heat tolorant and supposedly a prolific bloomer. All Summer Beauty and Enziandom will probably need a little more shade than the others, (they all need a good amount down here) but they all look like great choices to me. I think the much berated Nikko is one of those "old reliables" you can always count on to pick up the slack when the fussier cultivars don't quite pull their weight. Trust me, once you start seeing those beautiful blooms in your garden, you will be finding room for every cultivar you can get your hands on....in case you haven't noticed...hydrangeas are very addicting!!!.......yg

JUDY'S fault?! If I'm not mistaken, it was YG who sent me to the American Hydrangea Society's website and thus led me down the primrose path...or, in this case, the *hydrangea* path...to hydrangeaholism.

"the much berated Nikko"??? Says who? Not fancy enough for some folks, I suppose, but mine have grown like weeds, with only a little mildew right about now, and they've bloomed their hearts out. Who could ask for anything more?

I bought an Ami Pasquir and a Red Star, among others, from Hydrangeas Plus a few weeks ago. Hope the Prozac will kick in soon, 'cause my clicker finger is about worn out! judy

I would bet that you wouldn't be able to recognize any difference between Nikko and All Summer Beauty. I'd get one or the other, but not both.

I found that if Enziandom isn't in acidic, aluminumy soil then it is not the wonderful blue, but instead is a washed out pinky unattractive color.

Hay

I just planted my Enziandom last week, Hay. Do you think it would hurt to dose it with Aluminum Sulphate now, or should I just stick with coffee grounds until it gets established? I bought one of the ph meters YG recommended, and my soil registers only about 6.5. "a washed out pinky unattractive color" is *not* what I want! judy

Ok, so send it to me...

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder of course, so maybe you would like the color. I really believe this about beauty and to your eye it may be the "most wonderful and attractive pinky color". I just went to Google images and searched for Enziandom. Most of the selections were blue, but {{gwi:1023847}} I think the ones I had were more washed out than this one, but this gives a very good picture of what I'm suggesting.

And understand this is all relative. I think the blue version is so wonderful and that if I wanted something pink I would be able to find a nicer version.

Good luck. Hay.

Oh, the aluminum sulphate.

I wouldn't be adding anything to it until it becomes established. I'm not so sure about the exact timing of an aluminum sulphate drenching, but I think when they're grown in a greenhouse, they would start drenching at some point when the buds start to grow. Maybe there is some benefit to adding aluminum sulphate in the fall. I'm not sure about that, though.

Hay.

Wow, that's not my idea of Enziandom at all!!!

Judy, 6.5??? Are you sitting underneath tall pine trees or something? I (and I've read most Floridians except those by the shore) find it difficult to grow anything but blues in my 5 to 5.5 soil. So how did you end up with neutral soil? Are your Nikkos blooming pink/purple? I add alum sulf sometimes to bolden the blue of the Nikkos which are planted by the foundation (that I understand tends to leak lime into the soil), or when I plant new plants that are almost always potted up in neutral soil, just to get them moving along toward blue a little quicker. (now I will remove the growers soil so it should'nt be that big an issue anymore).

Have you tried taking readings in many different spots? On my small postage stamp lot, the ph can vary only a few feet away. I also noticed that when I put the meter close to the base of newly planted hydrangeas, I got those higher 6.5 readings. I assumed it was due to the growers soil still being around the plant because the flowers definitely bloomed blue so the roots must have been reaching lower ph soil. When I first purchased my already blooming Nikkos from Lowes in summer, they were almost cream colored (fully open) with a tint of pale, pale, pink. After being re-planted in my back yard, (with a palmfull of alum sulfate around the base) the fall blooms were bright blue. Go figure.......yg

YG.....I live in a swamp up near the Wekiva River. I fully expected the soil to be acidic, but, not so. I have two hydrangea plantings...mostly Nikkos. Those under oaks and palms on one side of the yard bloomed blue. Those twenty feet away under the same conditions, bloomed pink. Go figure. There's just a fraction of difference in the ph of the soil, but, apparently, that's enough to change the color of the blooms, which leads me to believe that less is more when it comes to adding soil acidifiers. I dosed the pink ones with a weak aluminum sulphate drench this a.m., although Hay says he's not sure that a fall application is effective. Time will tell.

That picture of Enziandom is 'mauve'...not what I want at all, but I'll stick to the coffee grounds until at least next summer. ...........judy

Have you tried Hollytone? I used to swear by Osmocote's Azalea,Rhodo,Camilia fertilizer w/soil acidifiers but Lowes stopped carrying it and I can't find it anywhere else. Now they sell only Hollytone which is great, but the Osmocote was slow release and didn't leak down through the soil so quickly. The two used together is optimal. If you see any of this type of Osmocote for sale, please let me know...it would be well worth the ride to me......yg

Will keep an eye out for the Osmocote, YG. If I find it up in this neck of the woods, maybe you can swing by and critique my hydrangea culture. judy

Oh, happy day....when I finished posting here I decided to look for it online one more time....Found it at a place called Aubuchon Hardware...only 28.44 incl shpg for a 10lb bag (used to pay about $7.00 for one lb)...God I love the internet!!!

Thanks for the invite I am flattered that you would want me to critique your hydrangeas, but -my eagerness to throw my 2 cents in aside - I am certainly in no position to critique anyone elses garden. I'm just learning as I go because I have always loved hydrangeas but was never successful at growing them (I thought you were supposed to follow the label...) until I finally started doing my homework. Now I'm just so amazed at these beautiful plants growing happily in my garden that I want others to know that if I can do it, anyone can and this forum is a great source for help. I am already pretty sure your garden looks great simply because you show such an interest in it.... Quite frankly, if you haven't guessed already, it seems that the more you LEARN about hydrangeas, the less you KNOW about hydrangeas....as another poster put it: the minute you think you know the rules, the hydrangea will make a liar out of you!!!

I've got to head out to Lukas tomorrow to look for crepe myrtles. While I'm there, I am sure the wind will blow me into the hydrangea section, where I will be harrassed by any number of hydrangeas who will at gunpoint force me to drive them to my house...If you are in the neighborhood ......yg

I've already made plans to go to a flower and garden show in Mount Dora tomorrow, so we'll have to meet at Lukas' another time. Would love to make your acquaintance. judy

Well, after much internal debate, consideration of your suggestions and countless hours of pouring over Michael Dirr's book, Hydrangeas for American Gardens, I've ordered my hydrangeas. Here are the lucky, or unlucky (as I'll soon find out) winners: Endless Summer, Penny Mac, All Summer Beauty, Ami Pasquir, Frillibet, Lilacina, Lanarth White and Q. Pee Wee.

Again, thanks for all of your input Judy, YG, EGO45 and hayseedman. I really did keep your suggestions in mind as I made my list.

Annette

Wow Annette!! Going all out for that first order!!....Good luck...yg

ps....Lilacina, as of this date, 11/07/05, in my yard, is covered with healthy dark green leaves free of any blemishes whatsoever..can't even see the stems..zero leafdrop...about 3ft high by 4ft wide...great plant for very little effort. Enjoy!!

I'm originally from New York and always enjoyed the large growing blue hydrangea plants. I have now lived in Central Florida for 8 years and have had nothing but trouble growing them. Help!

Can you describe what has happened, when (what time of the year), if the shrub is planted on the ground or in a pot? Maybe how & how much do you water, amend the soil, fertilize, etc?

In my hot neck of the woods, I have to keep them well mulched 3-4" at all times. To prevent browning of the leaves, the soil needs to be as evenly moist as possible (no periods of moist soil followed by periods of dry soil, followed by periods of moist again, etc). I normally use drip irrigation but in the worst part of the summer, I have also water by hand around the shrubs. Some wind protection may be useful if the area is windy during the summer. And something like 30% shade cloth could also be used to reduce exposure to the sun (you could also transplant the shrubs elsewhere).

I have placed my shrubs in either bright shade locations or where they get shade starting at 11am in the morning (approximately) in the summer months.

During each watering that I do very early in the mornings (4-6am for example), I provide about 1 gallon of water in cool months (Spring, etc) but increase to 1.5 gallons in the Summer (which here starts some time in May). Because your soil can be sandy, you may need to water 50% more than I do. I also water while they are dormant in the Winter months (once a week or once every two weeks, depending on how much precipitation we get).

My hydrangea plants started out as blue potted plants. I have never seen anything but pink since they were replanted in ground. The 2 or 3 plants have grown but have never exceeded about 3 ft tall.

We live in Windermere FL (suburb of Orlando). The shrub is planted on the NE corner of the house. There is an irrigation pipe that shoots water directly into the plant for 30mins 3-4times/week.

I have have bought a bag that is supposed to help turn the pink blooms to blue- that has NEVER happened. In the beginning the blooms would skip a year. Now I may get them once a year but only a few worth displaying anywhere.

Your thoughts?

Amending the soil in pots in easier but watering is more of a problem as you have to water more frequently than in the ground and the sides of the pots can heat up enough to dry soil and roots near the walls. Some people put potted hydrangeas in hot location inside wooden square containers so the outside wooden shell will absorb the direct sunlight and the inner pot will not heat up as much. Of course, you ncan also take care of sunlight issues by moving the pot around anytime you see it getting being hit by sunlight after 11am (ie, I mean the 11am in the hot summer months, not the weak 11am sunlight we have now). Water absorbing small roots are in the top 4" so keep these as evenly moist as possible.

Potting mix without aluminum or without aluminum & acidic conditions will produce pink blooms. That is all I get over here too but I am playing around with the amendments. After adding some in Spring, I have to add more again in the early Fall. I let the plant tell me (ie, if it gets iron chlorosis and the leaves go from dark to light green or if the leaves turn light yellow except for the leaf veins that remain dark green). But one Nikko Blue that turned out to be some lacecap get a little more and its bloomage has been purple the last two years. I added still more amendments this year and should notice the results soon as that lacecap is in the broccoli stage and should have open blooms soon.

It seems the more attention I give it the worse it is. In NY I ignored it and it took off! Down here nothing has worked!

Have you considered maintaining the shrubs in pots until you find a good locations and theeen planting on the ground in that spot instead?

Too much sun, drying summer winds and maintaining even moisture are things that need to be addressed in hot climates that elsewhere (say, in NY) you would not have given much of a thought. Your summer sun in NY is not as bad/hot. And the drying hot winds on hot days augment moisture issues.

If you can find a protected area (protect from summer drying winds and from too much sun in the summer) with a constant supply of water, it may be easier to grow on the ground. Pots may be difficult until you also find that sweet location where the leaves do not get sunburn or dry from hot summer winds and where they get evenly moist soil.

I suspect that in NY, that location in your garden could have been almost anywhere in your garden but, not in the South. I will have to do the same kind of location planning work here soon. A friend is sedning me some hydrangea cuttings and it would not surprise me if I have to move them around the garden until I find them a final good spot like you. Good luck and post again if you have more questions.

Hi Everyone. I've really enjoyed reading this feed. I'm a complete novice at gardening but love hydrangeas and wanted to attempt to grow them. I live in Orlando and was thinking of adding hydrangeas to fill in a big space I have in my front yard but the space is west facing. So it gets full afternoon sun and can get quite hot. I guess hydrangeas are out of the question? :(

Yes, the leaves are going to suffer from sunscorch during the summer months. It may not be a problem now but it becomes one in June-Aug or thru September. :o(

Since hydrangeas are understory shrubs, try first developing shaded areas with trees and theeen plant some hydrangeas underneath. Pick trees whose root systems will not compete for water/food. Because your growing season is long, consider using reblooming hydrangeas so you get new blooms now and then