It will be interesting to see the difference in the plants grown under the red/blue LEDs and the CFL and also to see if there is much difference in the HPS and CFL. I can guess what the all red and all blue will do but will wait for pictures. One of those will most likely turn into a vine.

Taz,

I really don't know exactly what to expect over the entire run. Thinking that the all blue will produce a short, bushy plant but grow slowly. The all red should grow quicker and get taller, produce fewer leaves and bolt the quickest, followed by the HPS. Not sure exactly how the CFL will do - if a tomato plant is a guide, it will grow somewhat quickly, have a lot of leaves and be late in bolting. The red/blue should fall in the middle.

Like you, I will wait, but will take pictures every Sunday.

Mike

After a week, the CFL bulb is by far the best, followed by the Red/Blue LED and all-Red LED. The latter's plants are a few hairs taller but the leaves are not quite as large. Plus, the stem seems weaker. The HPS is next to last with the all-blue getting the 5th position.

The pictures are here.

Mike

Thanks. What fertilizer did you use?

None before the pictures were taken. Last night, I mixed up a batch that includes a bit of Tomato-tone plus some other stuff (next to no Nitrate) I had laying around.

Mike

I bet it would have made a big difference to fertilize right after first germination. Your results look almost the same because fertilizer was the limiting growth factor.

I use 5 g. hydroponic 10-8-22 fertilizer (containing Ca, Mg, S, Cl, etc. but no urea) + 1 g. urea + 1 g. urea phosphate in 1 gal. water. The small amount of urea greatly improves tomato seedling growth but more inhibits it.

I transplant seedlings after they a couple sets of leaves. At this stage, I am far mo-re interested in root growth than foliage since, in time, they will go into much larger containers or in the ground.

But there is a difference, in the case of the CFL plants a big difference, in leaf size and even plant height among the plants.

Mike

I do not endorse nor appreciate links added to my messages, thus the change to mo-re.

I do not endorse nor appreciate links added to my messages, thus the change to mo-re.

I found a Simple and Free Trick

Week II

Something burnt some leaves on the CFL plants - not sure what as they were not getting mo-re lu-mens than the HPS. But they still dried up. Not that this would matter in the long run - I do not harvest any leaves for close to a month.

Nevertheless, the CFL plants seem to have the best foliage and overall growth. The internodes are not as tight as the all-blue but they are a bit better than the HPS. The red/blue plants look great; not quite as tall or big-leafed, but perhaps the best overall. The all-red: they look like they have had too many drugs or beers - barely able to stand up straight. The blue ones should turn out to be the best, albeit slowest growing - I do not like basil to bloom!

The pics, starting with the CFL:

{{gwi:1020632}}

The HPS:

{{gwi:1020633}}

The Red/Blue Panel:

{{gwi:1020636}}

All Blue:

{{gwi:1020638}}

And the drunken basil (all red)

{{gwi:1020641}}

Mike

Thanks, but here you said, "However, I have yet to see any evidence, and can even say I have evidence to the contrary, that single spectrum blue light (as from an LED panel) contributes to a denser, shorter plant. Seedling grow much quicker, but the internodal length is longer (much like adding far-red light), though the foliage is larger." Yet, this experiment shows otherwise. Your present blue LED results are consistent with my results using Westinghouse Special Blue fluorescents. Now, I won't bother to buy a blue LED panel as I previously stated.

Struw,

I'm only posting the results of my tests. Tomato seedlings did indeed have a long internode length. The basil doesn't.

Mike

Your tests are fine. I discussed an implication of those fine tests.

How was I supposed to know that you were only talking about tomatoes? You mentioned "Delicious" at the top of your post and "plants" at the bottom. The OP's topic was plants in general and urbangardener said something similar without ever mentioning tomatoes.

struw,

Not a problem. I know what I mean - I forget others don't!

Mike

struw Put your glasses on.

"I have a Red Delicious tomato plant that was transplanted on Dec. 26 growing under a 105 watt CFL from 1000bulbs.com"

You quoted "Delicious". You missed the word "tomato" which follows it?

struw Put your glasses on.

I don't need glasses. I know what Delicious is because I have grown it.

Apparently, English is not your native language. "Delicious" was in a different paragraph than "single spectrum blue light". Paragraphs separate points supporting a central idea. The "central idea" was determined by the OP and was not specific to tomatoes. There was no explicit connection between "Delicious" and "single spectrum blue light".

I have another pertinent comment. The growth from monochromatic light (red or blue) was relatively poor. That has also been my experience, but, my experience also includes Low Pressure Sodium (LPS) light which is nearly monochromatic yellow.

Week III. I added another light this week, a 125 watt LED that is suppose to have a 7-1-1 ratio of red, blue, orange light-s. But the plants are the same age as the other ones.

IMO, the CFL is winning. Some of the leaves suffered damage, from what I have no clue. It looks like heat damage from the light-s, but they never came within six inches. But, while the internode length is not as tight as the all-blue or red/blue light-s, they have a couple of suckers, which are a key to growing basil. The mor-e "stalks," the mor-e leaves. The worst are the HPS and all-red LED. The HPS plants have way too much internode distance, the other still seem drunk. A fan may help, but these plants are in six different locations!

Front and top pics.

The CFL light:

{{gwi:1020643}}

{{gwi:1020646}}

Last place, the HPS. Not surprising, they are not designed to be great for foliage.

{{gwi:1020648}}

{{gwi:1020651}}

The red/blue panel:

{{gwi:1020654}}

{{gwi:1020656}}

The 125 watt LED:

{{gwi:1020657}}

{{gwi:1020659}}

The all-blue:

{{gwi:1020661}}

{{gwi:1020663}}

And the all-red. The one plant still is having a hard time standing!

{{gwi:1020666}}

{{gwi:1020669}}

Mike

That is what I thought would happen with the all red LED but I'm surprised the combo LED is doing better than the HPS with all I've heard about HPS. Sure glad I never fell for it.
Could the plants have experienced cold temps?

@struw "Apparently, English is not your native language"

Apparently, Earth is not your home planet!

taz,

I'm somewhat surprised by the internodal length of the HPS as well. But they are heavily weighted with red and orange.

The temps had to be within 1-2 degre-es for all the plan-ts), generally low-mid 60s overnight, mid-70s to low-80s daytime.

Actually, the only thing I have learned so far is the all-red and HPS lights are worthless for seed-lings. But my goal is to follow this through for a few months and see what the harvest of leaves brings!

Mike

Apparently, Earth is not your home planet!

I wish that were true.

Week IV brought some changes. The all-red test is over thanks to a bad cat. She or he (don't know which one did it) knocked the plan-ts over and all three stems broke. But it didn't stand much of a chance as it was all stem. Two of the CFL plan-ts and one of the HPS ones got transplanted. They are now large enough to go into a 7-gallon pot, the CFLs under a 125-watt LED, the HPS back under its original light, though much closer.

I do not like either bulbs that much for raising seedlings - too much stem. In the case of the CFL, though, it is starting to show more suckers than the HPS and the internode distance is better, though not near as tight as the red/blue and blue LED panels.

The tall boys, with the HPS first:
{{gwi:1020673}}

And the CFL:

{{gwi:1014163}}

The all-blue panel
{{gwi:1020675}}

The 14-watt red/blue growth:
{{gwi:1020677}}

And lastly the ones under the 125-watt red/blue LED panel:

{{gwi:1020679}}

They are not near as close to the panel as the ones under the 14-watt but my light meter says they are getting twice the lumens.

Mike

Looks like a combination of fluorescent and LED would give ultimate results.

I'm enjoying this experiment. Keep posting updates!!! I would like to add an opinion about how your leaves are looking... I think you may have thrips. Here is a pic, although small, it shows the similar wilting that your leaves are experiencing. The brown burnt leaves are surely not from the fluorescent lighting so I think the buggies are the problem

Here is a link that might be useful: {{gwi:1020630}}

It's been a while. The plants under the all-red, CFL and HPS lights have disappeared and are now growing as individual plants (thought only a couple of each). But the remaining seedlings:

The all blue plants:

{{gwi:1020681}}

Nice internode length, decent size leaves.

The 14 watt red/blue panel plants. About time to save 14 watts per hour!

{{gwi:1014161}}

Finally, the seedlings under the 125 watt red/blue. Faster growth but nothing like the HPS.

{{gwi:1014160}}

Here's the clincher. This plant is under the 400 watt HPS. The color is far from accurate, but you should get an idea of the growth in two weeks:

{{gwi:1014162}}

and from the top:

{{gwi:1020684}}

From this simple test, I would recommend starting basil plants under CFL lights (5K) and once they get about 6" tall, transplant them and put them under HPS bulbs.

If my tomato plants don't quit producing fruit with BER, they are all going to replaced with basil!

YMMV,

Mike

very cool man, I'm glad I got to see this post, it's cool to see it along the journey.

I'm doing about the same thing. I have some fluorescent lights that have shot seedlings up to 6 inches in under two weeks. After that I'm planting outdoors, but for indoor tomato/peppers/etc. this year I'll be doing fluorescent to HPS.

Nice experiment!

The HPS light seems to be nearly perfect for the basil. I have eight plants under it now (soon to be nine) but am thinking about adding 100 watts of 5K CFL bulbs. It will add about a whopping $1/wk to my growing expense so if it adds 1.5 ounces of leaves a week, I'll make a few extra pennies!

Mike

I see you don't have HO fluorescents. They provide more coverage than CFL's and you can mix the light to your discretion. I've grown with HO-FL then made the switch to HPS with very good results for flowering/fruiting plants. It's important to remember that high amounts of red light in HPS bulbs are not recommended for plants that you don't wish to flower or fruit. Therefore, some plants may perform even better under Metal Halides at the latter stage.

chefrobert,

My name isn't Sylvania or Westinghouse! :-)

These are bulbs/panels I had laying around the house. I would not go so far as to say HPS are not recommended, maybe aren't as highly recommended. But with basil, one does not want it to flower or fruit - I spent last summer trimming buds every time I spotted one. And while the internode distance is a bit more than normal, that will not hurt either. I cut the tops from each sucker and let it grow more suckers until I have a very large bush.

Mike

OMG! I just checked the price of HO bulbs around here (Home Depot) - $72 each!! I don't think I'll be getting 8 of these any time soon.

Oops - my mistake, that was for the fixture - duh! SO how much are the HO bulbs?

I think the 100 watt (8' long) are about $20 each. They don't put out any more lumens than a 105-watt CFL and with the latter, one doesn't need a ballast or fixture.

Mike

100 watt? Must be VHO's, not HO's. HO-T5's cost $8-13 each depending on the brand name and where you buy them. It's about 92.5 lumens per watt so you'll need 4 bulbs minimum for good results.

CFL's obviously require a wire and socket, perhaps even a reflector; some of the more powerful ones require fixtures.

Btw, those are the 54-watt HO-T5 bulbs.

100 watt? Must be VHO's, not HO's.

Mike stated 8' which obviously require double(or close to double) the power of 4' bulbs, so 100w sounds about right.

Taz.. I wasn't talking about Mike's lights, I was referencing the lights mentioned in my previous comment. But thanks for playing!

I've got to revise my latest recommendation, or at least add a caveat. The HPS light does great, at least if it is at least three feet from the plant. The large one is doing poorly, the ones I transplanted great.

My plan, once Wednesday gets here, it to replace the HPS with 200 watts of CFL lighting. (Come Wednesday, I can move a bunch of seedlings outside to harden off, freeing up the CFL bulbs - just in case you were wondering.)

Mike

An update - the basil seems to love the CFL bulbs. I have eight plants, not much past the seedling stage that are doing almost as good as the ones in the garden outside did last summer. In another week or two, once I top the plants, I should start getting at least 8 ounces of just leaves per week. Not a huge money-maker, about $5.50 a week, but the customer is also a friend and buys a lot of other stuff. He just basil more!

Mike