So true. Sometimes it is still hard to leave that space even though I know I need to do it. *sigh*

I agree, it's important to think about mature size if you plant directly into the ground. I despise the hassle of moving hostas, especially with the whole HVX thing. Although I get good exercise out of it, I still hate doing it. And the bigger they are, the worse it is.

I have my newest bed over planted, but everything is in a spinout bag or a sunken pot. I did that for a variety of reasons, including the benefit if easily being able to move them out once I decide what should stay and what should move.

Coll ...when you use a pot for large hosta, what size do you use? How deep do you sink the pots?
Thanks

Something tells me I'm going to be thankful I listened to the more experienced Hosta growers about future crowding issues.

Don B.

I have some big hostas in very large nursery pots, and some in large spinout bags. There is a tree and plant nursery here that lets me take large pots for free, which is great. They are assorted sizes...some wider and some taller. The ones from the nursery are the ones they use to pot trees, so I would guess they are about 16- 20" across? I will try to measure some tomorrow.

Regardless if it's in a bag or sunken pot, the top of the soil in the pot should be level with the soil in the ground. I have some that were not fully sunken and those sustained some winter damage. The rest are fine. Oh, and I would't put an immature "large" hosta into a large pot.

Now, I may not be the best person to ask about this because my garden is only 7 years old and the ones in pots or bags are probably about 4 years...so I am not sure about the long term viability of this approach.

all my very large hostas are planted directly in the ground.

In the ground landscape, you can always "trim" them with a spade. You will still have those mature leaves and shape, but only 4' instead of 6'. Sell those trimmings!!! When mine get over crowded in a 3 gal pot, I divide them and give away the extra divisions. I'd sell them, except around here no one had heard of hostas.

-Babka

I have the opposite problem. I never planted a hosta within four feet of another and planted some five and six feet apart. I like to give each space to show off.

It was only last year that I ever had two hostas touch (except for volunteers). My Sun Power and Journey's End aren't quite touching right now although they are both 70-inch hostas.

But now I look out and think there are some spaces where I ought to put something. So I still may get into some crowding, just later rather than sooner.

Well, esox, your problem sounds much easier to remedy than the alternative. I'd like your problem of too much bare space (I think). Seems it'll be more fun to fix (Plant more stuff, you say? Certainly!!) There are a few I'll have to move eventually that I planted close together, but out of 105 or so planted in-ground, just a few ain't too bad, I guess. I have the forum to thank for that great advice; So, THANKS, Forum! : )

Regards,
Don B.

P.S....Two 70-inch wide plants just barely touching? THAT is good plant-planning, my friend...

My h.'Abba Dabba Do' is leaping a lot and is overtaking my best 'Great Expectations', now which should I move? Bernd

I'm now filling my new gardens with hostas in pots and annuals to avoid over crowding. Thank goodness most of my giants are in a spot where they'll be able to grow without moving.

I'll have years of fixing some of the overcrowding. But moving hostas around keeps my DH in the gardens and that means that the television is not on in the house which drives me crazy! We both stay happy that way.

Gesila

Some of you know that when it comes to hosta gardens, Les and I are a cooperative, where I more or less have taken on 'his' gardens. Our greatest experiment is Theresa's Angel Garden under an ever expanding American Black Walnut tree. In the last 2-3 years it has added almost 5 feet to it's drip line. This has caused the grocery garden to need be relocated because tomatoes and peppers are killed by juglone.

However, it creates by it's very nature a 'moving' condition. Fortunately moving may only have to be 4-6 feet. This year Blue Angel, Frances Williams and Whirlwind are leaping, but only Ww is threatened to be overwhelmed. So is Pudc to the left of a BA. But Pudc gtets crushed every year by falling walnuts so it has needed to be moved anyway. Plus it has a d-----d mulberry trying to grow right out of the center

I guess what I am saying is that no matter how well planned for growth, being hosta nuts we face having to move hostas anyway, for one reason or another. This spring I moved a 10 year old Sum & Substance to spot in the rear of Theresa's Angel Garden behind Parheliion because she'd fry to a crisp where she had been planted.

I don't mind moving hostas when they haven't unfurled yet but it is all I can do to just lift a root ball up onto the trailer on the back of the rider.

Four years ago Les broke in a new garden on the East side of the garage. In it were planted about 7-8 hostas. I moved Fried Green Tomatoes to the Maple Garden (not under one-but pm shaded) where fragrants are slowly being placed together. There is a gorgeous Blaze of Glory that will leap next spring that I have no idea where I will move her. Probably to the outer edge of the TA garden with the walnut expanding another foot or two. I think it handles sun well and holds its bright but pastel yellow better in more sun.

I guess that is why I only have about 70 varieties added over years and my gardens won't grace the pages of Fine Gardening for the open dirt that is visible. I find using s stirrup (shuffle) hoe easier than pulling maple seedlings.

Not everyone shares my viewpoint of what a hosta garden should be, and every approach mentioned in this thread should be given serious consideration by relative 'newbies'. Bobbi, across the street is going to have a real problem in a year. She has bought over 100 hostas in the past 2 years just because they are pretty, and in one spot has 5 large varieties in a circle less than 3 feet across. I've warned her, and shown her my hostas that are 5-6 feet diameter, but she just says she'll jerk them out and cut them apart

The anticipation of her doing that is making this hosta-gal drool. I am preparing space for them when she does. My compost bins are producing a lot of good stuff and Bobbi is welcome to all tha black gold she wants. tee-hee

Theresa-the devious hostaholic.

Good thread. I am a careful measurer. When planting my latest beds two years ago, I made sure to allow enough room for my largest hosta and planted impatiens to fill. That was too many impatiens for me. I'm also unsure the hosta will achieve full size due to shade and root competition. So I am now filling with small/medium sized hosta or small perenials like astilbe. Save the impatiens for edging and small gaps.

However, even with careful planning, circumstances caused me to move a giant Sum and Substance and a large Paul's Glory this year. Removal of two large shrubs (taller than my house) alowed me to rearrange the foundation planting on the northwest corner of my house. I moved S&S to a better location as part of the redo. A new gutter, thoughtlessly placed to disperse it's contents on the crown of my Paul's Glory, caused me to move Paul's Glory as well.

I enjoy digging in the dirt, planting, dividing and moving all my plants. The only ones I would try to avoid moving are the larges and giants. Just too back breaking.

Beverly

I really try not to have to move gigantic hostas. I have one bed which is about 15' X 20, backed with snowball viburnums and a mahonia. There is a coral bark Japanese maple and a young sassafrass. I planted Devil's Advocate, Victory, Atlantis and Dragon Fire, trying to space them so they would have plenty of room. Right now there are ferns, a rodgersia, some big rocks and a few wildflowers in there, and I'm transplanting some woodland phlox between the hostas so it doesn't look so bare. This is only the 2nd spring for them, so they have a lot of growing to do before they are mature, but I hope to never have to move them.

I have this vision in my mind of what it will look like when everybody grows up! But we all know, visions and reality are not always the same, lol!

Marilyn Monroe, Midnight at the Oasis and a nameless lance-leaved 6 yr old seedling are towards the front of the bed. Don't think they will ever get overwhelmed, but at least they would be easier to move if they did.

Another bed has a Plantaginea, Gunsmoke, Neat & Tidy, Nigrescens, and Royal Standard in the back, with Zounds, Elvis Lives, and a few other medium and smaller ones in the front. Hopefully I have the big ones spaced out pretty well, on at least 6-8' centers. Hellebores are behind them, with an evergreen dogwood and a viburnum. There is also Piedmont Gold, Powder Blue, Goodness Gracious and Tobacco Road on the other end of the same bed--it is about 30' long. Other smaller hostas are in front of them.

Everything is interspersed with astilbes, ferns, and other perennials to fill in space. Those are easy to dig up.

I hope I have learned from the past when I had to move Aphrodite, Sugar and Spice, August Moon and Francee clear out of another bed when there just wasn't room for them all after about 7 years, and Liberty had to be moved over or get pushed.

Funny, too, because when I planted that bed there was so much space between the hostas that I filled it up with impatiens and they grew so well that you couldn't even see that there were any hostas in there! Now there is little room for anything else except ferns, early daffodils, bleeding hearts, some creeping veronica and Virginia bluebells.

It's always a challenge to get everything right, and many of my plants seem to spend as much time on the end of my shovel as they do in the ground!

Sandy

I move my plants so much....maybe too much. I agree moving the biggest hosta is a pain, but surprisingly manageable with a strong back. I have a front (nonhosta) bed that I am very unsatisfied with, just can't find the flow, and I swear every plant in there has been moved about four times! I find getting out with a shovel very rewarding. I barely know what a hand trowel is.

I have eight large all green (noid) hosta that I can't wait to get out of the front, they will all go in the back yard as filler as soon as I beat the gout weed back a bit. Anyway, I do try to place my perennials not too close together, but I haven't met the plant yet I fear to lever out of the ground and divide or move. I may go re-check my Montana aureo. placement after reading this thread, though!

I'm taking a lot to think about away from this thread.
For starters, the shuffle hoe that Theresa mentions, may be easier than bending down and pulling out camphor tree and oak seedlings. I can fill a 5 gallon bucket with them just about every couple of weeks. HATE camphor trees.

Then, of course, Melissa is very good at laying out the possible problems for in the ground hosta gardening. I'm not facing that problem now, but may slowly wade into planting my largest hosta now in containers.

Trying the spinout bags may be a good idea where I have this new bed along the driveway near the street. I surely cannot trust leaving unsecured pots out there. While our resident plant thief seems to be retired, I don't want to put temptation in the form of a gorgeous hosta within reaching distance. So with my limited in-ground space, I will gradually place the ones busting the sides of the pots after two years. Already in fairly heavy pots, counting the potting soil, I cannot plan on much larger pots for them and still consider them MOBILE, as in moveable, not MOBILE as in where I live. (It's pronounced moBEEL).

As it stands now, I'm looking at these hosta as candidates for in the ground planting where it gets at least some afternoon sun when the summer solstice approaches....like it will be at its zenith in another two weeks, and I am studying the strange patterns of shade in this bed.

But anyway, these hosta could deal with in the ground, I think.
Sum & Substance, Faith, Zounds----which are mostly gold and bright for a dark shady corner. Then perhaps a Brother Stefan, and a plantaginea. I'd go slow beyond that point, since I don't want to risk losing the plants I've coddled for this 2nd year.

Myrle mentioned that she likes the full look and doesn't mind moving things around. That has been my philosophy but I'm a container gardener almost exclusively. If I have a spot where no pot is sitting, means I have room for another hosta! Even if no shade, I use market umbrellas to create some. Or else I create shade with tall shrubs strategically placed.

This whole thread is a source of great interest. It should be saved and added to the FAQ list of our forum. Speaking of which, it is in need of updating, right? Who knows how to do it?

Moc, in my corner of the world, bright gold hostas tend to lose some of their bright color and get more chartreuse-y green in dark shade. They need more sun to maintain that color. Just sayin'.

Sound like you're getting together a pretty good plan!

Sandy

Moc, in my corner of the world, bright gold hostas tend to lose some of their bright color and get more chartreuse-y green in dark shade. They need more sun to maintain that color. Just sayin'.

Sound like you're getting together a pretty good plan!

Sandy

This Is a very interesting topic. My problem is,even though I read how big a hosta can get at maturity,you can't account for the fact that,given the best growing conditions,a hosta can still outgrow it's space,as did a few of mine. I don't know about you young people,but this old guy doesn't want to be moving a mature giant,in the future! Phil

I find this very interesting too. I move lots and lots of plants every year, sometimes two or three times. I dig up a plant that I've planted a couple days ago and move it over 3 inches if it bothers me. I have a general idea of how big they are supose to get but I do not plant them with that in mind too much. Right now I have a sport off of June or Halcyon (?) that is in mini bowl. It looks good now so when it grows I'll move it. I know this approach is not for everyone and especially if you physically have trouble moving plants or hate to do it.

I get a big kick out of achieving a different look by removing a plant and putting something else in it's place. Sometimes I have to move one that suits the area and I really like the look but it's too big so I pick something as similar in looks as possible. I had a Raspberry Sorbet in a spot. It got too big. I put Little Red Rooster in it's place. It worked.

To those of you who are fairly new at this and trying to follow all the advice and leave enough room (for when?!!) listen to your heart and pay attention to what is visually pleasing to you. Do you really want to spend the whole summer and maybe the next and the next waiting for something to grow?

I make and exception by paying attenion to avoid moving something in the Sum and Sub. family especially after the first year or so. I learned from Gary (Naylor) that they hate being divided and hate being moved. Since I subjected my Sum and Substance to both it deteriorated quite a lot. I also buried it too deep - another big "no-no". Poor plant, I almost killed it. It is now coming back but I learned that lesson. When I got Winter Snow a few years ago I picked a place I can leave it. There are plants all around it of course but they will be the ones that have to do the moving.

I like to try new hosta arrangements each year, too. That's the beauty of the sunken pots and spinout bags. I did a three way swap with First Frost, El niño, and Touch of Class...and it took me no time because they were all in spinout bags. No tool disinfecting needed!

McTavish, yes, I'm OK waiting a few seasons for them to fill out and reach more mature sizes. Sounds much better to me than having to move a bunch of hosta around. But, that's just me.

Regards,
Don B.

So much depends on how you feel about your gardening hostas. Everyone makes excellent points, so a lot does boil down to "what do you like?" Ken so fondly says it: it's your garden. You do what you want with it.

Sandy, I have a Blaze of Glory that is absolutely spectacular in the spring b4 the trees leaf out. By early summer it is in almost total shade and loses it's creamy
yellow glow. It is a pretty shade of chartreuse green, but
is no longer spectacular. She is going to be moved to a sunnier location next spring. You are absolutely correct about the yellows in no sun. Plan as we might, as someone has said above, the best laid of plans don't always work out. It isn't anything to fret about if you're having FUN.

Theresa

Theresa, one of my WISH list items is Blaze of Glory. I am smitten by good yellow/gold hosta, and I like to move the pots containing them close to one another. That way I can keep an eye on the color changes as the season rolls on.

I take pictures of this area regularly, but this shot in May is the most recent that I uploaded to Flickr. On the back of this potted palm is Zounds and Faith and Tobacco Road. Tobacco Road was a lime green for a long time, but now it is perking up with a lot of yellow gold, its leaves sort of flat and raised at the tips. It was just blah for early season, now it is beginning to look like an OLGA hosta is supposed to.

None of these are margined, and of course, my favorite variegation is yellow/gold middles with a band of dark green. Totally gorgeous again this year is Smooth Sailing with its green eye liner banding the golden leaf.

Smooth Sailing in June, a short scape growing daily taller.
And nothing is crowded so far. SO FAR.

'Smooth Sailing' is simply a must-have Hosta, isn't it, Mocc? Sure looks like it. Did you get yours from Wade and Gatton?

Thanks,
Don B.

DonB, my Smooth Sailing came from Mason Hollow up in NH. Not really far from Green Mountain, you know. They sell some of theirs in 2 gallon size, if you care to check it out.

And yes, Smooth Sailing is a must have. I think Ludi chose one but don't recall from which nursery.

Myrle, when you mention that S&S does not like to be moved or divided, does that mean I will set it back if I remove it from its big pot and place it in the ground? Without doing anything else to it? Honestly, it is going to eat its pot pretty soon.

The problem I have is being a chicken about putting my babies into the big earth where they are subject to all sorts of problems, and it is not a simple matter of grabbing their pot and moving them out of harms way. BUT, I think the spot that DH cleared out in the front driveway bed is the best candidate for in-ground hosta around here. A little shy of shade in the summer afternoons, but total shade the rest of the day.

Should I move them to the new location, leave them in their pots, and see how they respond to the new spot?

Ken suggests dragging them across the driveway to stimulate the growth......guess I should try some Tough Love on my pampered hosta.

I don't think you'll set it back too much if you carefully move it now. Probably the sooner you get it in the ground and can leave it there the better. I found out this information after the fact. I'd divided mine a couple times and waited for it to bounce back which it didn't do. Then I moved it and waited. Then I kept giving it more compost, manure etc. to try to get it to smarten up. When I realized it was also now too deep I had no choice but to dig it up again. I took more time to really prepare the hole and replanted in a place I hope will do forever. It gradually began to return to the normal look for the leaves. This year it looks better than it has in a long time. I guess it's just one plant, or plant family, that I pay more attention to picking a spot right in the begining. Good luck! Myrle

I have three S&S planted in the same bed in 2007. I moved one in 2011. This month the relocated one measured 17 tall, 43 wide (6 pips). The two undisturbed plants are each about 24 tall, 55 wide, (11 and 15 pips.)So moving it was clearly a setback, but it is thriving and happy. And it now has space to stretch!
Jan

Space to stretch is what I want to give my S&S. As one of my oldest hosta--I got it in May 2010--it was in the ground for 2010 and 2011 growing season, then socked into this pot for the trip south. It's remained in the pot since then. And while it sort of pouted last year, putting out few leaves, this year it is taking a shine to the climate. Other than being nipped by a late cold spell, I think it is a happy plant.

My Winter Snow, offspring of S&S, has been in the ground since I got it from Lowes in 2011 May. I went through agonies until I determined it had not contaminated my garden with HVX, and it is doing fine with no intervention from me. Blue Angel is beside it, and one day they may be crowded, but hey.....welcome to my garden.....that's the way things grow in the south, with reckless abandon. A very good reason the city has 9 cu yards of trash per household pickup 26 times a year. And extra pickups if we have a hurricane! We have to keep things cut back, or we'll be overwhelmed.

Besides things growing bigger, we also have a much longer growing season, early to start, late to end. Many of my hosta kept growth until early December last year. They got their beauty rest this year because we had such a cool (and late) springtime.

I have yet to determine if the way they look this year is in response to my skills as a gardener, or if it is because I bought good hosta from great sources. Maybe a little of both, I hope.

Here is S&S in August 2012

Here is S&S in mid May 2013...it is even bigger now...time for planting out.

Very interesting to hear other's philosophies on this.

In my own case, I try to plant initially with sufficient space for a mature plant. That is not to say that I haven't moved a few fairly large hostas but I try to pick a location and colouration of plant that will be pleasing from the outset. This approach does leave some big gaps for a few years till the hostas mature.

I have a bit of an advantage as I am not a true hosta collector but really more of a gardener. In that sense I feel no urge to acquire new examples of varieties I do not have unless they are spectacular in some way or fit a particular scheme I have in mind. To fill gaps in the garden I like to add interesting plants which are easily moved. My favourites are the many mnay varieties of huechera along with tiarella, and brunella. The ever popular astilbe has a place along with various lamiums. I add native ferns and woodland plants especially trilliums.

All of these smaller plants have exceptional foliage or flowers and are more easily moved than mature hostas. They all have a place in the construction of a shaded garden in creating the desired look.

Doug

Most of my hostas are 3 years old or younger. Several are leaping for me this season. I've tried to establish permanent homes for the biggies as I don't want to even think about moving one that is mature. I know that I will continue to move around the ones that are manageable and don't resent it too much. With my space issues, setting them back because I moved them isn't much of a concern (more like a bonus).

Last year I cut back on my purchases and switched to impulse buys of the smalls or minis only. I more or less stick to this. I do have a "cheat list" for some of the larger ones but have found that the garden centres don't vary their offerings too much - so I am pretty safe (unlikely to come across them while browsing).

At this point I still don't regret overbuying for the space...as I'm not yet paying for it. I suspect in 2 years I will be freaking out though...

I think I did an ok job spacing these two large ones- Queen of the Seas and Liberty. Unfortunately, I didn't realize the Misty Lace Aruncus would get so big when I planted three of them in this section. Next year I will remove it from between them, leaving two aruncus' behind that...which bugs me because it won't an odd number.

Journey's End, Sun Power and Blue Angel once seemed far from one another. Not so much now.

Melissa, I could have written what you said! When I planted my first garderN I thought it was perfect and was eager to show it off in the forum. Everyone said it looked lovely but...BUT, the older, ahhh, lets say more experienced gardeners warned me that they were too close. What too close? I wondered, they looked just perfect.

Well now, in that and a couple of other gardens my biggest problem is that they are too crowded! Who knew the plants were going to get so large? well, just about everyone except me (and you)

With the help of husband's muscles, I have moved a few large ones this year. And I am starting to make notes and diagrams of what I want to do with many others. I have decided to move a few small ones now and next spring before the others come up completely, dig and split some of the larger ones to put in other spots or give to friends. I am even considering selling a bunch, but I guess I have to look into the legality of that and what the rules are.

In my newer gardens, I have left MUCH more room between the hosta!

chris

Bump....something which might be on my horizon come spring.

Bump....something which might be on my horizon come spring.

duplicate