VERY bad!! Maples have extremely invasive roots that will destroy septic systems, driveways, house foundations -you name it! Keep them FAR away from your septic system, and at least 50 feet from any structure or driveway.

Planting any trees close to a septic system is not a good idea. Generally, smaller, shallow rooted shrubs and particularly herbaceous perennials and grasses are recommended for this area.

Maples do not have 'invasive roots'. Many species do have rather aggressive root systems that will spread a wide distance and outcompete smaller plants but their ability to 'destroy' driveways and foundations is highly exaggerated. In fact, many maples are recommended street trees in various parts of the country and one of the requirements for these selections is an ability for the roots to behave in confined spaces. And with very few exceptions, tree roots will not invade, damage or destroy a building's foundation if that foundation is structurally sound.

I would have to disagree with you on this one, Gardengal, having had personal experience with maples destroying the pavement at my grandparents home. Any shallow-rooted tree has the potential to cause problems like this, and silver, red and sugar maples are definitely shallow rooted. This is from the Iowa State University Horticulture program:

"How many times have you gone for a walk and noticed sidewalks cracked or heaved out of place because of tree roots? Unfortunately this problem is all too common....

Avoid planting shallow rooted tree species near sidewalks. Norway maple (Acer platanoides), red maple (Acer rubrum), sugar maple (Acer saccharum), ash (Fraxinus spp.), sweetgum (Liquidambar styraciflua), tuliptree (Liriodendron tulipifera), pin oak (Quercus palustris), poplars and cottonwoods (Populus spp.), willows (Salix spp.) and American elm (Ulmus americana) are examples of shallow rooted trees."

Most trees in humid regions are shallow rooted. Non-specialized roots only grow where there is air in the soil. Except in arid regions soils are often poorly aerated a rather short distance below the surface. Typically when a large tree blows over in my region the bottom of the root flare - which may only be something like a foot deep even on a quite tall tree - looks like a bullet that has been shot against an impenetrable surface.

Shallow rooted trees are the norm, rather than the exception, as bboy notes. If you study the literature, you'll find that the majority of tree roots - even those of very large trees - are present only in the top 12-16" of the soil. So virtually any tree has an ability for surface roots and surface root disturbance of other surfaces, be it lawns, other plantings or walks or driveways. Having said that, maples are no more problematic in this regard than any other tree species and quite a bit less so than some.

But the bottom line is NO tree should be planted close to any septic system or septic drainfield.

bboy,

Where I live we have shallow-rooted trees and deep-rooted trees. I've you've ever tried to dig up a mature White Oak you'll discover a HUGE root system going almost as deep as the tree is tall. This is through solid clay. Hickories also have massive roots. Oaks and hickories in particular do not have the surface roots you see around maples. There are other species with more well-behaved roots as well, and these are typically seen in yards here in the South with nice lawns around them. Forget about having a lawn under a sugar maple! The surface roots are everywhere, and once the tree is more mature no grass will survive under it, even if the tree has been limbed-up to allow light to get in.

There is a definite difference between the tree species and how close to the surface their roots grow. Also how suitable they are to plant around human structures. I think we can all agree that nothing should be planted near a Septic system, but I can see directly the difference between Oak root behavior and Maples (I live in a forest). Magnolias are even worse.

Anchorage roots like those made by certain species in deep soils are actually a small part of the root system, the majority of the root mass being made up of the pancake of roots that spreads out just below the surface. These special more deeply penetrating roots often have a somewhat necrotic appearance reminiscent of bracken fern rootstocks, presumably because they are living in comparatively airless soil away from the surface. What I am addressing is the apparently commonly held yet false notion that there are numbers of kinds of "deep-rooted" trees that can be chosen from for ornamental planting in temperate climates that do not root into the upper part of the soil at all.

I should point out that there is a difference between a septic tank and a drainfield. In my case, there is a 110 ft tight line between the septic tank and drainfield. I have a 30 year old Weeping Giant Sequoia and Dwarf Gold Hinoki planted within ten feet of my tank with no adverse problems.
If my tank doesn't leak I won't be bothered. I made sure to seal the outgoing line from the tank so no roots could penetrate it there.

Hey guys well will not find out about this because my wife told me it was not cool to plant trees on our property line and that is were my septic tank is.But I am going to order two for my steet side.thanks for the help on this,by the way do you guys know about this Fantasy Maple looks real nice on the monitor.

"What I am addressing is the apparently commonly held yet false notion that there are numbers of kinds of "deep-rooted" trees that can be chosen from for ornamental planting in temperate climates that do not root into the upper part of the soil at all."

Whatever you consider shallow rooted or deep rooted, the fact remains that some trees are much more suited for landscape use and make better citizens in lawns and gardens. If you don't understand that concept, I'll post pictures tomorrow that will settle this ridiculous argument once and for all.

fish,
I assume you are talking about Autumn Fantasy Maple. We have one we planted from a container in late June a couple years ago, at which time the peak heat of dryness of summer hit, and never seemed to bother it. Has grown well, and red flecks begin to show on the leaves in early autumn. These slowly increase until more leaf changing weather arrives, at which time it develops very nice deep red. A different shade from Autumn Blaze. Does not seem to have a strongly dominate central leader, so you might have to work at that one. All and all, we are very happy with the tree to this point.

Note all the above is based on ONE specimen in the ground two years, in zone 6b. Can't say anything about how it will behave in zone 8. Might try to track down someone in your area that has had them for a while (a local nursery might be able to help with this) to find out more local info on performance.

Arktrees

K4 - I'm not sure why you consider this a ridiculous argument. There's plenty of evidence to document the fact. Despite your opinions to the contrary, ALL trees have the ability to develop roots that will appear at or above the soil surface - it is just a matter of time and conditions. Faster growing trees tend to produce them more rapidly than slower growing species, but the ability does exist with any tree type.

It is true that some trees develop some deeper penetrating roots, called heart roots, and some (although very few species) even develope so-called tap roots, however these tend NOT to occur readily in cultivated garden settings and most tap rooted trees display this feature when the plant is quite young and outgrow this tendency as they age. But regardless of the tree's root anchorage system, ALL trees share the same characteristic of a very shallow, widely spreading root system that extends a great distance beyond the canopy or dripline. These are the actively growing 'feeder' roots that supply the tree with moisture, necessary nutrients and oxygen and they can only access these items very close to the soil surface. This shallow, spreading 'pancake' constitutes the bulk of the root system - estimated at anywhere from 75-90% of the total root mass - and exists very close to the soil surface, generally within the top 12" and much of it at or just below the soil surface.

Whether any specific type of tree is considered to be a better landscape "citizen" than another depends primarily on the soil and growing conditions as well as on the age of the tree in question. The structure of the soil, the degree of soil compaction - common in most garden settings with any lawns - the amount of irrigation or fertilizer they receive, and their relative maturity will affect how fast and how many roots that may actually emerge at the soil surface. But the ability to do so exists with ANY tree.

"the bulk of the root system - estimated at anywhere from 75-90% of the total root mass - and exists very close to the soil surface, generally within the top 12" and much of it at or just below the soil surface"

I would agree, this knowledge has been known for quite a few years. If you have ever dug up an old, rotten fence post...it is rotten down about 12'-15", after that it is normally solid. That is the normal depth for oxygen and biological activity in the soil...where everything is happening for a plants roots...could be 8"tall or 70'tall, everything below that is anchorage and storage.

Schmoo

I just have to disagree with you here. Why do you think a major horticultural insitution Like Iowa U. would publish the statement I quoted? No matter what you may think or may have read, I can walk out my door and see the proof. Some trees DO have a propensity to create surface roots more than others! I have trees that are 100 years old with NO surface roots, and I have others with surface roots almost from the get-go. The former I can plant shrubs, perrennials, and lawn under; the latter I cannot. Oaks, Hickories, and a few others are the "good citizens"; while Maples, Beeches, Tulip Poplears, Black Cherry, etc. are the "bad citizens". I have a Hickory 18" from my driveway with NO surface roots and NO cracking/upheaval of the drive. I had a dogwood 1/3 the caliper of the Hickory that was farther away and it cracked the drive within a few years. If you want to come to Tennessee and see it first person, then by all means - come on down!! My yard is open! Otherwise, see pics below.

What statement are you rebutting? This?

>ALL trees have the ability to develop roots that will appear at or above the soil surface - it is just a matter of time and conditions. Faster growing trees tend to produce them more rapidly than slower growing species, but the ability does exist with any tree typeWhat's there to rebut?

Rebut

"Most trees in humid regions are shallow rooted. " See photos and my previous post.

"Having said that, maples are no more problematic in this regard than any other tree species and quite a bit less so than some." See photos and my previous post.

If you don't agree, then its time for all of us to move on...

Large roots protruding out of the ground and causing problems is not the same as most of the roots being near the surface. A tree not lifting pavement or getting in the way of mowing isn't demonstrating that it has no roots near the surface.

People asking for deep-rooted trees should understand that these are not avoiding the surface soil. Often there is a hope that the tree chosen will leave a depth of unoccupied soil within which to plant other plants or install pavers.

I have ash trees with surface roots, where a couple inches of ground have washed away over the last 50 years. One of my two silver maples had no surface roots showing. It was down towards the base of a long gentle hill where my yard washes. The top soil there is ridiculous thick. Up the hill another similar sized maple had tons of surface roots. Weird.

Also, I can't help but notice the difference digging in suburban yards compared to naturalish woody areas. Where the roots aren't in the way it's very easy to dig. Almost like the top few inches of dirt were made by the leaves rotting every year. Digging in my sister's suburban yard is near impossible. All that yard has seen for 50 years is lawn mowers compressing it. No new dirt has been added in forever since her and the previous owners do a religious job of cleaning up the leaves. Boy them pin oak roots have less incentive to go down deep to hold the tree in place and more incentive to be lazy and try to go through the top couple inches of soil.