You're definitely looking for a couple rare ones. I see neither in the ~6 pages of Japanese maple source listings in PLANT LOCATOR - WESTERN REGION. Vertrees/Gregory merely lists both cultivars, without description (in Appendix D). MAPLES FOR GARDENS mentions the second one as being like 'Beni shichi henge' but "markedly more intense." Maybe that is why you are interested in it.

Yah neither are on the Eastwoods cd either so they are most likely NOT redily available and most likely NOT on the east coast....My suggestion would be to contact an old timer like greer or that maple tree . net guy who is now retired ( web site is KAPUT)..can't place his name ...nice guy though or write peter who re-did Vertrees book ...but with so many other available great and probably similar cultivars out there i think ...unless you gots lots of time on your hands ...why bother ...I'm sure you could get something similar!!! David

Frank Byles...is the guy I couldn't remember I may have his email address or phone # ( he preferrs phone )..If you want it email me personally I don't think he wants it public ...I wouldn't ( phone # that is) He is very knowledgable older dude.... David