Red Maples have very aggressive, very shallow root systems. They are almost impossible to have a lawn or garden beneath or even very close to them. I don't know if that matters to you. Very beautiful large shade tree.

Acer truncatum is a very attractive tree, much smaller than a Red, and with a finer texture. Also, shallow, aggressive roots but seemingly not quite as much so.

Scott

Thank you, Scott. That's the kind of stuff that nurseries don't often tell you.

I really want the red maple for shade during the warmer months of the year. I had thought that once the tree had become established, I'd plant some spring flowering bulbs underneath it. I don't have any definite plans yet for exactly what kind of flowers but I was thinking of ipheion, tulips and/or daffodils. It sounds like maybe that's not the best idea because of the tree's root system - is that right?

Anyone else have any input?

No one else has anything to say about these trees? :(

When we moved into our last house, we started the landscape from bare dirt and weeds. At the front edge of the property in the lawn border we planted the Acer x freemanii 'Red Sunset'. It was about 8ft at the time we planted it and about 5ft across. It was planted in a mound and underneath it we planted some evergreen ground covers a birds nest spruce. There was also a Pinus strobus glauca nana and a mugo pine in the impending root zone as well as the lawn.

Four years later the tree had grown to at least 15ft tall and 12ft across or better. All the plantings were still alive and while the spruce grew slower than most everything looked healthy. We were just beginning to see some surface roots at the edge of the lawn but not exposed in it. The condtions were that the border was in heavy sun and reflected heat from the sidewalk and remained very dry with the lawan on the inside being moist.

I loved the tree in all seasons, but it did have aphids for a short time in the spring. Fall color was hit and miss, and there might be better choices for better color. The samaras dropped from the tree never germinated in the yard, although the tree flowers and seeds profusely. The spring display of flowers is spectacular.

The tree is pretty sturdy but grows quickly and still exhibits the narrow crotch branching problems that are seen with silver maples. Every couple of years I would take the pole saw to it and open up the center and take out any offending branches.

We moved this summer and left the tree behind, but I still have some digital photos if you want them, just email. The place we moved has no maples, as the previous owners removed many of the mature ones and replaced with cedars and ash trees about 15 years ago. These trees can work, but do get large. As long as you plant them with the appropriate expectations, you will not be dissappointed. I would look into some of the newer varieties for different characteristics.

MJH

I have just planted an Autumn Blaze (freemanii) and Red Sunset (freemanii). I think they're going to be great -lot of them growing around here. The color is awesome - i just planted one near my deck on west side of house (autumn blaze)...the color is spectacular - it's about a 12 foot tree. I here they grow fast and have strong branch structure too.

I also have a large, Red maple collection. Autumn Blaze, October Glory, Autumn Glory, Sommerset, Brandywine, Red Sunset, Pacific Sunset, and a couple more that are escaping me at the moment.

I also love what I've read about the Autumn Fantasy and would like to give this a try.

I also planted an Autumn Brilliance Serviceberry because I really wanted the red color in the fall. This is supposed to be outstanding and I"m looking forward to its first fall. I don't know if you've investigated that tree, but you can grow things under it pretty well.

Oh - I also grow a lot under the two sugar maples that came with the house. Hosta, Ferns, Heuchera, Tiarella, etc. However, low but raised beds I created around them are very full of roots. To the point where if I try to cut through them to plant something new? It's like cutting through spongy, matted shredded wheat. What you plant must be tough.

Christine

I also love the freemanii maples (a cross between red and silver maples) for their adaptability, fall color, and vigor. I have two 'Autumn Blaze' freemaniis, one in the front yard and one in the back yard. Great orange-red fall color and attractive silver-grey bark.

However, a week ago, we got a freak early-season snow that dumped about 15 inches of very wet heavy snow while the trees still had all their leaves. The front yard Autumn Blaze was planted four years ago and had been 16 feet tall, with a 5-inch trunk at the bottom, but the snowstorm snapped it right in half... only the bottom 8 feet of trunk remains. (See attached photo link of the front yard Autumn Blaze during fall 2004). I had posted an inquiry about this in the main 'Trees' forum. The Autumn Blaze in my back yard got 3 feet of its top leader snapped off by the snow, but is far less damaged than the one in the front yard.

To rocky110501: If you live in an area with early fall snows or late spring snows, do not believe the "strong branch structure" description, which I also read on glossy nursery plant tags that describe 'Autumn Blaze'. The freemanii maples are still more like silver maples with respect to their adaptability, growth rate, and, yes indeed, weaker wood, and more like red maples with respect to fall color. From now on, I am going to judiciously prune my Autumn Blaze branching to try to avoid this in the future.

Here is a link that might be useful: {{gwi:1050179}}

From what I've seen of Autumn Fantasy growing in the field, it grows slightly faster than Autumn Blaze. It is also slightly more open than Autumn Blaze. The fall color in central IL is a nice burgandy and red highlights. The largest one that I have seen is at the Dawes Arboretum in Newark, OH. The trunk is 8 or 9 inches and the tree stands 25-30 feet tall. At this size it is slightly more upright than Autumn Blaze and definately less dense. It doesn't appear to make as many small, lateral branches as Autumn Blaze and hence, "fill-in." Not that it's the ugly type of open just moreso than Autumn Blaze. I'd rate it as a matter of personal taste and so far, Autumn Blaze is the tree for me. I am growing some seedling of Autumn Blaze and it will be interesting to see what will come of it.

Nnnnan - thanks for the information on the Autumn Blaze - that's a great contrasting picture you posted - beautiful! i would be especially mad if that happened to me. I'm kind of a novice. When you say that you'll be pruning the Blaze's branches to try to prevent in future...what do you mean? Is there a method of pruning out branches. Are having narrow branch crotches bad? Does anyone have any information on this? On a different note, my Red Sunset out front still has it's green leaves and just the very tips of leaves are little red...is this common for this tree...thought it would get more fall color? I planted it in spring - it's about 8 ft tall. I think i bought it b/c i wanted the Blaze but wasn't sure of the correct name when got it and Red Sunset sounded right? Anyone have any thoughts on the Red Sunset? I'm thinking of moving it and replaceing it with a Blaze ...this time...since i know which is which now.

rocky110501, fall colors can vary from tree to tree, season to season. Not all freemanii maples have the same intensities of fall color.

The problem with leaving narrow V-shaped crotch angles is that they tend to not have as much connective wood fiber at the top of the juncture, compared with branches that grow at a wider angle to the trunk. To correct this, you may have to thin out some of the branches at an early stage that form those very narrow V shapes. This becomes more important if you live in an area with high winds, or where the tree branches have to carry loads of snow and ice.

In retrospect, when I look at the preceding photo link of my tree during fall of last year, and then look at the same tree during this past summer at:

http://www.jeffw.com/17744_house.jpg

the top of that Autumn Blaze grew almost three extra feet and, more significantly, grew a dense mound of branches of leaves and branches at the very top. I did not see what happened to cause the tree to snap in half, but my guess is that the dense branches at the top, still all full of leaves, collected that wet heavy snow which was falling through the night and, with some strong wind gusts, finally snapped the trunk. I did not do any formative/corrective pruning on that tree since it was planted four years ago... lessons learned the hard way :) Our whole neighborhood looked like a tornado had passed through and snapped 20-foot and 30-foot tree limbs off all over the place. Even two weeks after that storm, you can still hear chainsaws as people clean up.

Speaking of maples, one of my favorite fall color pairings is purple smoke tree planted near my maples. The maples change colors first and then after they have completely dropped their leaves by late October, the purple smoke trees change into a riot of every color imaginable, sometimes on the same leaf. My smoke trees, every fall, look like Jackson Pollack ran amok with dozens of buckets of watercolors... yellows, oranges, reds, blues, greens, purples...

Here is a link that might be useful: {{gwi:1050180}}

Thanks for all the input, everyone. Between having a sick kid and some rainy days, I haven't had the chance to do much tree shopping so I haven't made a purchase yet. But I'm still hoping to get something soon.

I thought I'd give an update. None of the nurseries I went to had either Autumn Fantasy or Shantung maples (seems like nobody around here has even heard of the Shantung). My husband and I chose an October Glory red maple, and I think we'll be quite pleased with it once it's established.

We didn't make any decision on the more decorative tree yet. We were told that the Yoshino cherry would eventually spread too wide for the place where we were considering putting it. The landscaper suggested an Ivory Silk lilac or a Cleveland pear instead, but I don't care for the pears and my husband thinks the lilacs "stink" (his word). So we'll hold out on that area of the yard until next year.

Thanks again to everyone who took the time to share info here on this thread. :)

I guess I'm a little late here.
I don't think A x freemanii is a very worthwhile tree and that you'd be happier with a straight red maple or red maple cultivar. I have one and there are a number of issues that I and other have reported with it.

Just for the edification of anyone unaware yet interested in such details, the so-called "Autumn Fantasy red maple" is a hybred between A. rubrum and A. saccharinum (silver maple). Sometimes hybreds themselves are given species names, in this case "freemani". In orthodox nomenclature, "A. rubrum x A. saccharinum" and "A. xfreemani" (no space after the "x") are both legal.

BTW - I don't believe for a second that the majority of A. rubrum and A. freemani entering commericial nursuries and home centers are true cultivars that have been grafted. They're doubtlessly grown from seed, reducing the October/Autum/Red/Whatever and Glory/Blaze/Sunset/Whatever names attached to them soubriquet masking as cultivar names.

The good news is, it doesn't matter too much. There are few specimens of A. rubrum or A. freemani that don't produce spectacular color under the right conditions. And the ones appearing at Home Depot or wherever are probably only a generation or three removed from the bona fide cultivar and are thus often akin to it.

[If anyone strongly agrees or disagrees with my skepticism regarding these supposed cultivars, I'd love to hear your views. Perhaps you'd like to start a new post on the matter?]

In my observations, A. freemani tends to manifest a more subtle salmon or peach color than A. rubrum, which tends to manifest strong red and orange tones tones. They are generally different in their autumn color, but equally spectacular. Of course, not all individuals conform to these generalizations.

A. freemani inherits attractrive incised leaves from A. saccharinum, but also some of its notorious brittleness. Although any tree will break under the right (or rather, wrong) conditions, it doesn't surprize me to hear frequent anecdotal accounts of damaged freemani.

I think the warnings about A. rubrum's roots are somewhat exaggerated. My landscape has eight A. rubrum 50+ feet tall, and in no place do their roots break the surface of my very successful front lawn. Specific environmental conditions, together with specific genetic lineages, probably determine whether or not surface roots become an issue.

I hope what I've written is of interest to someone.

MEIJI

Boston, MA

You may want to ask for a Purpleblow Maple, rather than a Shantung Maple. They appear to be the same tree.

Here is a link that might be useful: Univ. of Alabama in Huntsville's Trees