I agree with PM2. With fabric, sooner or later your mulch and fallen leaves, etc., will break down on top of the fabric, and weeds will sprout anyway. If you want to plant later or move existing plants, it's a pain in the neck.

And most importantly, you want to feed your soil. Can't do that with the fabric.

I also use cardboard or several layers of newspaper under my mulch. I really does help with the weeds. I even use the paper/cardboard under mulched pathways.

Preen is a pre-emergent, which means it kills off weed seeds before they sprout. I've never used it. Supposedly you can get the same results organically using corn gluten. Again, I've never used that, so not sure how effective either product is.

Good luck!
:)
Dee

Nope. BTDT; it's not effective AT ALL.
Try several layers of (wet) newspapers or the cardboard as previously mentioned.
Preen will "sorta" work- it cuts down a lot, but does not eliminate.

Freckles, the picture below illustrates what above members have said. This is a front garden of the house next door. Landscaping cloth was put down 3 yrs. ago by the owner who was selling the house. He plunked the hostas in after cutting an X in the cloth then covered the whole area with large mulch chips of some kind. Every green leaf you see other than the hosta, grew on TOP of the cloth. Whether microscopically small or larger grit, seeds, dirt, and pollen are in our air most of the time. Via a storm, gentle breeze or bird poop, these things land on TOP of the cloth and combined with the decaying mulch, the seeds sprout and produce an instant garden - weed style. The new owner hires a lawn mowing service,is not a gardener, so that fabric is there to stay until it shreds itself from flapping in the wind. This is what it looks like after only 3 years.
{{gwi:1073312}}

Jane

Before I knew any better, my neighbor convinced me to use this stuff. I put it down in my main perennial bed. Like everyone else said, weeds grow on top, anyway. If I didn't keep up on it, it would have looked just like the other poster's neighbor.

I think I've gotten almost all of it up now. Some of my perennials had grown into it enough that I just cut up next to them as much as I could.

Go with the techniques others mentioned instead - save yourself some time & money. Wish I had. I've always been an organic gardener in every other regard - what was I thinking?

The one thing that might help is edging that goes down into the soil a few inches. Even though I edge it, the grass likes to try to grow into the flower bed. I plan to put edging in this year.

Jane, that was a perfect example of what happens. Thanks for posting that photo!

It looks as if I will be spending my summer pulling up landscaping fabric, I put down years ago. My pathway in my garden, over the past couple of years, has developed surface roots from a VERY old pine tree.The narl of roots is enough to trip on. Upon beginning my project I see that the roots have grown on top of the fabric----the tree is a couple of hundred years old......What a mess I have out there. This is the second time I have made such a mistake. Believe me newspaper and cardboard is the only way to go! At least you can rake the seedlings off of that without getting all tangled up!

is Landscaping fabric the same as the plastic stuff you put down to keep soil warm?

I saw some stuff on Johnnyseed.com that covers to keep soil warm and eventually breaks down to be a part of soil. Has anyone else seen this stuff? Used this stuff? The nights have been too cool for my comfort and I feel like my plants would appreciate a bit more warmth, particularly my eggplant.

Any ideas?

TenGreenFingers - You might get better response if you start a new thread. Go to the bottom of the main page for the New England Forum.

Landscaping fabric is not the stuff one puts on veggie garden soil to keep it warm and also isn't the same as Johnny's paper biodegradable mulch. If you use solar plastic mulch you will want to use irrigation under it since the solid kind won't let water through. I have seen woven plastic mulch which will let water seep through, but I don't know how well it works to help heat soil or suppress weeds. You might want to use irrigation under the paper mulch like with the plastic since it will dry out between rains and so may not let much water through unless the rain is lengthy enough to let the paper soften. We used plastic mulch one year, but didn't find it made enough difference to repeat the process.

Another option is to put row cover over the bed to help raise the air and soil temperature. For crops that don't need pollination it can be left on all the time. For crops that require pollination, leaving it open during the day will allow pollination, but if put over the crop last afternoon (preferably while it's still in the sun) and left on overnight this can help hold heat overnight and keep the soil from cooling off.

(FYI - Landscape fabric breaks down in light and needs to be covered with mulch or a walkway or something else that blocks sunlight getting to it, so that would kind of defeat your purpose. It is made of some sort of bonded fibers, rather than being woven or a solid sheet.)

Hi all. I'm new at this landscaping paper thing. We've put it down years ago and now the weeds are going like crazy taking over the plants. I'm pulling weeds every year and they grown back just as fast as i pull. I've been reading the comments here and they said to use cardboard. Do you use regular boxes of cardboard cut up and how do you do it when placing plants in your garden? Maybe these questions are kinda stupid, but like i said, don't know much about keeping weeds out. Thanks in advance for your comments

Ruby, no question from someone who truly is interested is stupid. Wanting to learn how to do something well, or at least better than before, is a good chunk of why we all show up here.

I use regular brown corrugated cardboard boxes, or else multiple sheets of newspaper that I've wet down to keep them from blowing away. Over top of that I put wood shavings or whatever mulch is available. In areas that are densely planted, it only needs replenishing every three years or so. I still need to do a bit of weeding, but not as often or as much, and the weeds lift out easily. In an area already planted, folded newpaper between plants works best. In a new area, I use whole boxes(the grocery store always has some they are giving away), then the mulch and then wet the whole thing down. When I am ready to plant, I can just rip the cardboard or newspaper with my hands if it's still damp, or otherwise use a garden knife to cut an X, fold back the newspaper/cardboard, and then plant.

Here's a photo of a garden I was expanding. I put down cardboard, then mulch, and then dug in a plastic edging so the top rim was almost buried, and then put down patio block just inside the edging to give the mower wheels something to ride on.

ok, thank you so much for answering. I forgot to mention that i dont use mulch, i have gravel. will it still work the same?

An organic mulch such as bark mulch will work much better than gravel. Gravel will always collect organic material (leaves, seeds, etc.) that have blown in and then the seeds will sprout, but it won't be easy to pull the weeds. I'd plan on changing over to an organic mulch when you remove the landscaping fabric. Gravel mulch may work well in drier parts of the world than New England, but here you'll always have more trouble with it than with cardboard and an organic mulch.

Apparently there are several types of "fabric". What I laid down 5 years ago, with a bark mulch over it, does an excellent job of keeping things moist. Also, someone said you can't feed your plants through it, but I can definitely feed plants through it with liquid fertilizer. As for weeds growing on top of it, that does happen, because naturally dust and debris gathers on the mulch and so it requires diligence and some weeding, but it's quite a bit less than some areas that are not covered in fabric (where I plant annuals, spring bulbs, etc.)...and anyway, what garden doesn't need weeding? I have excellent soil already, and while it may be true that (certain?) fabrics don't help to improve the soil, they don't reduce the quality of good soil that already is in place under them. The worm population seems very happy. So, for me, it's been a good choice for some large areas, which I would not be able to maintain otherwise. The trees and shrubs planted there are thriving and I couldn't be happier with those.

Ruby, I do the same as babs, except I usually use shredded leaves as mulch. I have never used gravel, but also agree with babs on not using it. I feel that using a degradable mulch like leaves or wood mulch or pine needles, etc., adds to the quality of the soil as it breaks down. It's also free for me - I have so many oak trees, it's ridiculous IMO to let the city take my leaves and then go and buy mulch. This way I return the leaves to the soil and get mulch for free.

ok, thank you all for your suggestions. We have alot of thinking on what to do. hopefully, our right decision will work. Appreciate all your help

Dee, I live in the city, so I don't own nor have access to acres of woods for leaves to use as mulch, so for me, there are no leaves for the city to take. Therefore, buying mulch is the only way to get it. I am not ridiculous. I am practical.

Bill, goodness, I never said you were ridiculous! My post was not in response to yours, but to Ruby's. As a matter of fact, I almost mentioned to Ruby that you have a beautiful yard and that she should ask you for photos of it so she could see how things worked for you.

If you see, I said "it's free FOR ME - I have so many oak trees... let the city take MY leaves..." And I don't, unfortunately, have acres of woods, lol - only less than one acre. :) But even if I lived in the city (and I did most of my life) I would still recommend an organic mulch over landscape fabric, whether one had to buy it (as I have had to in the past) or if one could scrounge it from their yard or nearby.

I'm sorry if my post seemed aimed at you and you felt that I was calling you ridiculous. That was the farthest thing from my mind and I am quite frankly shocked and mortified you took it that way. Apologies.

Dee. no problem. But I am wondering if the fabric that was laid down in my fairly large upper garden is something different from the norm. It is woven, it lets water and nutrients go through (to wit the plants respond very nicely to feeding), and it seems to me that leaves and other debris, once they break down, are also washed down into the soil. I know from digging this past season (to move a couple of things) that the soil is moist, humus-y (?) and has some fat and happy worms. If I can get in touch with the landscaper, I'll have to ask what he laid down.

Hi Bill, that would be awesome if you can find out what the landscaper put in. Do you get a lot of weeds with it? I live in Florida so our "soil" is SAND!!!! I don't have any trees except pine and palm trees.

Ruby, some weed seeds do germinate on top of the fabric within the mulch, especially after some time when there is dust and dirt and debris settled. But they pull easily, especially if I get to it when they're still small. But overall, not too bad. After a good rain, or after all the winter snow has gone, a lot of that dirt has washed down, and I have more mulch laid every 2-3 years.

I know the Florida soil from when I was helping my brother with landscaping his yard there. But if you augment your soil with organic matter, such as compost, you'd be surprised at how many things will grow. That sand provides good drainage and that's important. You should be able to find a lot of organic waste in Florida, with things growing and being pruned, etc. all year long.

thanks Bill. we do get a lot of pine needles. i was thinking of using that also

Pine needles can make a good mulch but they wouldn't be so good for augmenting the soil because they don't break down very fast, and they make the soil more acid. Many plants do like an acidic soil (ask your nursery when buying plants which ones) , but I think softer, green material would make a great compost which you can then add to your soil. You probably can get a lot of grass clippings, leaves, etc. Grass clippings often contain nutrients from when the grass was fed while it grew, so that can add to your soil as well. Good luck.

I used it 15 years ago and wouldn't recommend it. Weeds will still grow on top of the fabric on the mulch you use. I have been pulling it up little by little over the years.

thanks bill and Richard for all the info. appreciate everyone help

Richard, I agree with what you say and I said that earlier in this thread. However, weeds also grow without fabric, with or without mulch. I have found that overall, weeds that start life above the fabric are easier to pull, if you get to them while they are small. And getting to them early can be said for any weeds, in general in all our gardens, fabric, no fabric, mulch, no mulch, etc. There is no magic wand to keep weeds out. Gardens require maintenance. But I suppose if we like gardening, it comes with the territory.

In my front landscape, I used the water permeable landscape fabric under a good layer of cedar mulch, with holes cut for the perennials I wanted there. It's doing very well several years in, and any weeds that try to get a foothold (usually dandelion) are easily pulled out by the taproot. That said, I have Lamium and creeping phlox spreading out as a "green mulch" around the taller plants, and they do a pretty good job of choking out any volunteer weeds now that they have a foothold.

I tried the cardboard in my butterfly garden and it looked good for a season, but I didn't keep up with it and now I have a mini hayfield on the side of the house, with some butterfly friendly plants mixed in. I just let it go because I have noticed lots of wild critters using it as cover and habitat. I guess I have to pick my battles! :D

This is our 3rd year doing a vegetable garden at our local community gardens and we have no choice but to use the landscape fabric. The weeds there are horrendous, especially the mugwort!!! It is relentless. There are many vacant plots where it has taken over and it spreads like wild fire. We lined all of the aisles in between the raised beds and on some of the beds just left room to put the plants in. It helps us a lot in a vegetable garden.

Under paths is one of the few reasonable places for landscape fabric. In a veggie garden I would still pull it up at season’s end and store for reuse the following year.

We have landscape fabric with mulch on top on the paths between our raised beds. We never lift it, we just add more mulch as needed.