You forgot melt-out, rabbits, hail and reverting to green - lol. Cheer-up, you enjoy a plant that is terrible resilient - coming back year after year looking better and getting bigger.

Paul

In zone 7, you're well into nem season.
I've been seeing them in my zone 4 garden for at least 3 weeks.

Whoopee! Looks like I don't have any this year! (fingers crossed)

And thanks Paul, I knew someone would list the problems I forgot. ; )

chris

I'm not sure if we have damaging nematodes or not (I hear the organic garden radio guy talk about beneficial nematodes). Do you just dig them up and look at the roots? What does the damange look like as opposed to another problem?

BK

Nematode damage is evident in the leaves. I don't think it's evident in the roots.
Nem damage looks like browning/necrosis, but it's confined to between the veins. See pic below.

And there's a difference between Beneficial Nematodes and Foliar Nematodes

Oh No!I'm in the same boat with you.I was wondering what is wrong,now I know.If you find something that works,please let us know, Judy

Below is a link to a previous discussion about nematodes - very interesting read. It's long but IMO worth the read.

Maybe some will give us updates on what they tried.

Paul

Here is a link that might be useful: Nematode discussion 2007

For the sake of keeping the above linked thread relevant and uptodate, I have added a posting to the bottom of it.

Pieter

Ya know Pieter, I noticed earlier this week that replying to old threads doesn't get them bumped up. BUMMER.

At any rate, thanks for the update on your endeavor.

I'm still trying to decide what to do about mine. I'm up to 12 (counted earlier this week) showing signs of nems.

I appreciate the update, too. I've been a casual lurker here for a few years as google searches on various topics often lead me to threads on this board. It does seem like it's hard to find updates on nematode treatment, hail damage solutions, etc.

As for nematodes, I'm getting frustrated with them myself. I have several infected that I just heat treated, and one new one that I recently mail ordered which looks infected to me. And one *potential* one that I purchased last year from a highly trusted online vendor. I dearly hope I'm wrong about that one. I haven't had any luck identifying them with the glass of water test, but I'm certain the ones I treated had them, and I will be treating that new one as well. I guess I'll have to wait til next season and beyond to know if it worked. My hosta did not lose leaves or parts of the roots as far as I can tell, even after the hot bath.

All the hosta came from different sources, and were planted in different parts of the garden. The other day I visited a nursery with a large number of hosta and saw quite a few that looked infected. But it was very random....not necessarily plants that were all clustered together in one group. The owner didn't seem to recognize the problem. I'm just starting to feel like I might as well give up and live with them because it seems like they are everywhere. I don't even know if the infected ones in my garden somehow picked them up from the soil or plants in my own yard. As long as they don't drastically stunt the plant (and I haven't read anything to suggest that they will?), I guess I can live with a few ugly streaks in August, since they are usually looking less than perfect by then anyway. Though of course that means I wouldn't be able to participate in trades, etc. I don't mind treating the young ones, but certainly don't want to dig up anything more established. The nematode thing just bums me out and I just want to enjoy my plants and not be constantly stressed by what they may or may not be carrying. I'd almost rather be as blissfully ignorant of the whole thing as that nursery owner.

Do nematodes actually cause harm to the plant, other than making them look ugly? I've got several hostas that have the browning between the leaf veins, and I really don't want to go to all the trouble of giving them hot baths, etc., if the nematodes won't kill the plants. I don't plan on trading any of mine, I want them to just keep growing, and growing... But, if I do, I'll have to let one know the possibility of nems, and I'll make notes of which ones have the damage.

Karen

I'd like a conclusive answer on that as well, Karen. Much of the stuff I find online regarding foliar nematodes is very "techy"...I just want to know if allowing them to remain is going to affect the long term health or vigor of the plant. All the stuff I find states to dig up and destroy or commence with some sort of heat/bleach/pesticide/soap treatment...half of which seems more aimed at control rather than eradication, anyway. I guess if I'm gonna go to the trouble of doing anything, I'd like to make sure they are eradicated. I'm going to go ahead and heat treat the one that I received recently anyway, as it's quite small, only one eye, and it's a better option than throwing that money I paid for it away. If it makes it and is cured, great.

I've also read conflicting things about how easily they are spread in the garden. The nursery I visited the other day had stuff crammed together pretty close. If they are very easily spread, you'd think all would show signs of infection instead of a random few here and there.

I'm also confused about the soil issue. I read that foliar nematodes live in the plant, so what is the point of drenching the hole with boiling water? That part is a bigger pain than the hot water bath, IMO.

Oh, I also love how it's recommended not to water overhead as a method of control. I guess if you live in an area that never gets a single drop of rain, that might be an option??

I'm also confused about the soil issue. I read that foliar nematodes live in the plant, so what is the point of drenching the hole with boiling water?

Coll, towards the end of summer foliar nematodes manifest themselves in the familiar interveinal dessication. They over-winter in the roots and soil, the drenching is aimed at eliminating residuals.

An argument can be made as to 'why worry', seeing as foliar nematodes affect a multiplicity of ornamental plants, Hostas being just the focus of our obsession. The infected plant becomes unsightly before the usual onset of senescence and we all want to keep our plants looking as good as we can for as long as we can. I must admit I haven't read anywhere what the long term effects are of foliar nematodes in a given specimen, will the infection become bad enough that it will eventually kill the plant? Fair question. Don't recall ever seeing an answer.

Oh, I also love how it's recommended not to water overhead as a method of control.

While there's obviously little we can do about the splashing of water drops from one plant to the next when it is raining, you can certainly avoid it when you have to do supplemental watering.

Pieter

Yes, but what's the point of avoiding overhead water, when damage is already done, so to speak. If the nems spread from plant to plant via water splashing or running onto a neighboring plant, it's going to happen when it rains anyway. I actually can't avoid overhead watering in my garden even if I wanted to. My beds are are uneven levels, and are irregular shapes..it would be very difficult to put down soaker hoses or anything like that.

I think I found yet another one today. Big Daddy shows yellowish browning between the the veins on a couple leaves...just a few spots. That's been in the ground five years now, so no way am I digging it up and trashing it or treating it. Not planted near any of the other infected ones, nor purchased from any of the same sources. Maybe it picked them up from the neighboring ferns. I give up.

Coll. I don't know about long term effects, but I can tell you that Radiant Edger a nice size of about 15" wide or so, was complete decimated by nems this year.

It's literally GONE from the resulting necrosis.

Melissa, how long have you had that one and is this the first season you've noticed a problem? I guess that also asks the next question...once you see nematodes in a plant, can you expect to see them in increased numbers in the same plant from year to year?

And why can't they come up with something to kill these things? It's too bad they can't be treated with an anti worm medication like you give your dog for parasites!

Coll... this is my 2nd year with this plant. I did not notice nems in this plant last year, but it's neighbor showed some suspicious signs last year, but not till September. Since I didn't know what to do about it last year and it was the only one I noticed, I did nothing last year.

So, this is the first year Radiant Edger has shown any noticeable damage. It's neighbor has similar amount of damage from last year to this year.

I just went back into my garden and found another 3 with nems. All from the same seller.

I should tell ya a bit about this seller's set up. They grow in their backyard with one gallon pots crammed one against the other. SOME plants are grown in the ground, then potted, but most are not. ALL watering is from overhead. So, you have to figure that the nems are being spread with splashing water cuz they're certainly not all coming from the ground!

There WERE available nem treatments, but the treatments that were very effective for foliar nematodes (in the 80's and before) were outlawed in the early-mid 90's.

Here's my opinion on these things. They piss me off way more than slugs. Slugs I can see and if I wanted to be as diligent as possible, they could be kept at bay. But when I slug eats, they don't turn the leaf brown... just holey. Nematodes can cause necrosis of the leaf... and if they're to be controlled, you should remove the leaf if infected. So, they shorten my time with that plant in its glory.

So, when you say, ...I just want to enjoy my plants and not be constantly stressed by what they may or may not be carrying. If you want to get maximum enjoyment, then you don't want to end your season in July/August rather than September/October.

Yes, nems live in the plant. But they can also live in a fungus in the soil... therefore the boiling water drench.

And the thicker substance hosta do not show nem damage as easily as the thinner. So, it's entirely possible that nems are more widespread than immediately visible.

From my research, it appears that nems are not likely to ever be fully eradicated. Though some hostaholics have reported that their treatments have been effective and there are no signs of nems 2, 3 and 4 years later.

Here is a link that might be useful: Source for nem info

I actually am a die hard slug hunter, and I start that as soon as they start to poke up. I literally go out every single night in May, June, and July and hunt them down. So by August, I'm pretty burned out and just let them have them from there. By late August, petioles start falling left and right from the holes the slugs eat in the middle, which looks awful. So I guess I am pretty content if I can get three nice months out of my garden with May, June, and July. This year the whole thing was a bust because we had a terrible hail and windstorm that trashed everything.

That seller's set up sounds much like the nursery I visited a few days ago. Many pots, tightly crowded in rows, and some infected looking and others not. Certainly they were watered from overhead as well.

Yeah, like you said, if one wanted to, one COULD control slugs or stop them from damaging the plants. The nematodes annoy because you know they're in there and there is nothing you can do to stop them.

I had several plants with foliar nematodes three years ago. I dug them all up and poured very hot water in the holes and surrounding soil. Most of the plants were new that year and I returned them to the nursery where I bought them. I was probably 99% sure that they were nems.

A little while later I found two more plants with them. I loved those hostas and couldn't part with them. I dug them up, treated the soil, and put the pots in the unheated garage. I kept the plants in pots for two years and kept them in the unheated garage in the winter. They survived and showed no more signs of nems. Last year I put one back in the ground where it had been prior. No nems so far.The other one I actually forgot about this spring. Around about June I found it in the garage looking pale and almost dead. I brought it outside and it's thriving. If I don't see nems in September, I think I'll put it back in the ground.

I'm not saying that this process works, but if you have nems, live in a place with cold winters, and can't bear to give the hostas hot baths, it may be worth a try. My theory is that if the hosta is in a pot and it gets really cold, the nems can't escape into the soil. Keeping your fingers crossed might help too.

Hello all! Melissa and I (and another hosta bud) have been 'chatting' on the side about these bad guys,
a few days/wks ago and I'm finding them in places they've never shown up before!

So--I'm dealing with it, or them! But, I'm experimenting, too! In one experiment I potted up a hosta
in it's original soil, after suddenly discovering it was showing signs of a bad invasion. I then sat it in
the sink and let the water pour over it and in the soil at 130 degrees! I then checked under the 10x
magnifyer, (leaf torn in a clear custard cup of water) over a lamp. I waited at least an hour (maybe more)
before checking the leaf I put in the water. No tell-tale wiggler evidence, but--I could have just washed
them off the leaves in the hot shower I gave them.

But, a couple weeks later, I noticed new activity on the remaining leaves I had not removed.
So--experiment two. You're not going to believe the lengths I'm going. I dug out the
plant, removing most of the soil--put the poor thing in the microwave--nuked it for 20 seconds.
It seemed to survive that pretty well--surprisingly, but, it's been over a week and I have seen no
new activity. Oh, and I poured boiling water through the remaining pot of soil, thoroughly, before
potting it back up.

I checked a leaf, as before, right after nuking and yesterday, and no activity, then or now. Now,
how this plant will do, in terms of health etc. after such an 'experiment' remains to be seen. But, it was that
or pitch it! It was a gift--and the person had warned me of the possibility it had nems. so I want to
keep it if I can!

So--the things we'll do for the sake of saving a hosta--or in my case now--my entire garden!
I've had them show up in barrels, in hosta I've had for many years that have never shown evidence
of them. I'm beginning to think, they are always in our gardens, but we only realize it when the
conditions are just right for them to be apparent.

The fact is, no matter what we do, apparently, all we have to do is have one or two nems survive
our 'experiments' to repopulate again, eventually!

BTW, the plant I received last year, and planted in a barrel to eventually find out it had those things,
I had poured boiling water (or near boiling) all around the barrel up to the remaining stalks, (which were
in decline) is doing fine this year, so far. I should think it would definitely show their presence by now,
if they're there. I'd only try this on a hosta you're willing to lose, though! In my case it is thriving, but,
I wouldn't want you to try that on my say, on one you'd not be able to replace easily, if it didn't come
back, well!

There's my 2-cents worth, after giving you all a good break from me this season! ;^)

nice to hear from you janice

hope you are back to stay

jill

i cut down some of my hostas and poured boiling water on and around them in the garden...if they hostas live, great,,,if they don't,,,oh well,,,it was worth a try

I used the Bayer systemic Rose and Flower Care insecticide and fertilizer this spring around the roots on all of my hostas, and saw no nematodes all summer until 2 weeks ago. That Bayer product had leaf miners listed and I hoped it would take care of nematodes too. One young Paradigm has nearly all leaves wiped out.

One treatment with anything in May is probably not enough, will usually last only 3 months. Therefore, come middle of July I should have treated all again. I will spray tomorrow with Bayer Advanced Complete Insect Killer, which also lists leaf miners, might protect plants for a month.

Then I am wondering how the people with those 1000 and more different hostas actually survive the problems with late frosts, excessive heat, a lot of watering, slugs (2 attacks), nematodes, HVX and other various viruses and fungi. Somewhere there must be a simpler life enjoying hostas?
Bernd

I think I'm going to give the Bayer product a try. I mean, other than the money on the product, it can't hurt, right?

I got my jeweler's loupe today and picked 7 leaves, of the 23+ that I counted this week. I cut up the leaves and put them each in their own glass of water. 4 of the 7 had wigglers visible after 2½ hours in the water. I plan to check tomorrow to see if the others are also positive.

In my posting I forgot to mention voles. Keeping hostas certainly is not easy. But then most of my hostas are doing fine, even now starting September. Keeping roses seems to be much easier.

I am saying, digging hostas out, giving them and the hole a hot water bath is execessive work, especially from older folks and people with a back problem, and should not be required from a gardener. That's why I tried the Bayer way, but I missed that I should have treated again a month ago. I should make a treatment schedule for next year!
Bernd

I have had pretty good luck with the Bayer granules. I apply it two or three times in the spring. My plan is to apply it a couple of more times in the fall. We had such a hot summer that maybe I got a free heat treatment from mother nature.

Aw, that time of year again. Nematode time.
Don't ya just hate 'em?
Well, I think I've tried more of the commercial and homemade solutions than anyone and here's my conclusion, the pros & cons.

HEAT TREATMENT:
Pros...works 100%, it's a cheap treatment.
Cons...it stunts the plant for years, it's time consuming, carrying boiling water to the dug hole is dangerous and back breaking.

10-15% BLEACH SOAK (overnight)
Pros...Works 100%, it's a cheap treatment.
Cons...dangerous working with bleach, and again carrying boiling water to the dug hole is dangerous and back breaking.

ZEROTOL
Pros...none noted
Cons...Expensive, illegal to buy now, need to wear head to toe protective clothing while applying.

DR DONNER SOAP & MOUTHWASH SOLUTION
Pros...Smells nice, (used only once).
Cons...more expensive than some of my other experiments. Only used once and saw no change.

MERIT GRANULARS
Pros...Easy to apply, effective, moderately priced
Cons...None.

NEEM OIL & DISHSOAP
Pros...Easy to apply, very effective, Moderately priced. Highly concentrated.
Cons...can burn the leaves. smells bad.

PLANTS LEFT IN BLACK BAG & HOT BLACK CAR FOR OVER 2 WEEKS
Pros...80% of plants nem free the following yr.
Cons...none

REMOVING AFFECTED LEAVES
Pros...prettier plant
Cons...fear of touching and spreading nems to other hostas.

I have plants that I have been treating for several yrs and show NO signs of nem damage now. I also have plants that show damage this yr for the 1st time that are in a bed that have never had nems before. I again treated today with the Neem Oil and dishsoap.

There are old threads on this Hosta forum for which you can search :

RE: Nematodes and my insecticidal soap concoction

RE: Neem Oil

Good luck!
Bernd

Yes, but a lot of the old threads lack what is most benfitial- updates from following years as to what works and what doesn't.

I did the hot water bath treatment on several of mine this year. It wasn't too bad because they were still fairly small and not too established. I would never undertake that on a large, mature hosta. I'll have to wait and see how they are affected next year as far as nematodes and growth setback. They seem to look fine, as if they were never dug up and soaked in anything.

I also have some older ones that show signs this year for the first time, which is the scariest part to me.

I have seen people post who doubt that the soap and mouthwash solution would work because the nematodes are IN the leaves.

If that is the case, how can splashing water on the outside of an infected plant spread them if they are IN the leaves?

Isn't it the same thing?

BTW, last year I did the dig up and heat thing and hot water in the hole on my 8 plants that were infected. Those I didn't kill with the cure, came back nem-free. But that is a LOT of work and I don't know how many more years I care to do that. I also sprayed the rest of the plants with the soap and mouthwash solution and have not had any infestation this year in any of the treated plants.

chris

Chris, were the sizes of the ones you heat treated last year greatly stunted this year?

That's a good question about the transmission by splashing. I guess I assumed that they somehow exited the leaf into a drop of water that was sitting on it, then that got splashed onto a nearby plant, where they would then enter. There is really a lot about these things that I still don't quite get. Like why some scientist somewhere can't come up with an easy fix!

on the farm report this a.m. they were talking about their corn being infested with crop killing "nemetodes",,,those little suckers are everywhere...

jill

Coll, yes. They were nearly nothing after the treatment and I was going to throw them away. But my husband planted them each in a pot and put them in the shade behind a shed and they grew enough to make it through the winter in a holding bed.

At the end of this summer they are still smallish, I would say about half the size they were when they were infected.
I think I would have skipped all the hassle and bought new, larger plants! :)

chris