To Ian BC North: Thanks for the info on 'Hunter' & 'Scrabrosa'. I have heard of these two but have not heard that they take shade, which is what I have in the area I want to plant. Would be real nice if rose breeders could find a way to make more roses shade tolerant. Kate (see post in 'Knockout Roses for z4') suggested a once bloomer with a clematis growing through it - she has this and is very pleased with the results. I am now searching catalogs, etc. for the rose and a clematis. Thanks again for responding. Zebrina