jehunter: Hi, I dont know the particular 'Bourbon' rose but like you would be interested in hearing what other gardeners in Ok have luck with growing. I have Peace roses and New Dawn climbers, plus Mr. Lincoln and Oklahoma. I also have two roses I got from a gentleman, no idea what the names are on either rose and neither did he but they are magnificant and have little trouble with BS, one is very fragrant and the other is like a tree, the canes get as big around as my fist at the base. It grows as tall as 5 to 6 feet unless I go clipper crazy which sometimes I do. Both bloom all season and are probably rugosa roses.

So, tell me about 'Bourbon' roses.

Welcome the forum, I have only been posting about a month and there are some great Okies here. Lots of help and good discussion about plants, weather, etc. I think you will like it.

Nice to meet ya. Steffie

Those roses mostly likely will do fine in Central Oklahoma if your soil is right and they have wind protection. Most roses need protection from winds, but especially here in Oklahoma roses should be planted in a sheltered area, protected from cold, north winds and the hot drying winds of summer. They should grow & bloom just fine as long as you mulch them and feed them and water them and protect them from our strong winds. I know that even many English gardens are surrounded with walls or trees & shrubs to block the damaging winds.
You might just check with your local Rose Garden organizations. They might be able to tell you exactly what you want to know about them.

~Annie

Ditto on what sweetannie says. Oklahoma is susceptible to early/late freezes accompanied by strong north winds. I've had hardy roses cut down to their crowns due to strong cold winds that blasted their canes when the canes were not fully dormant. Also, Bourbon roses are considered Old Garden Roses (around before 1867) and some people favor this group of roses over the more modern roses (such as Mr. Lincoln, Peace etc.). The OGR people (antique rose forum) would be a good group of people to ask about Bourbons in our climate. Personally I prefer the modern roses so can't answer about how Bourbons will do here.

Just a footnote, I did a walk through today to check the rose garden area. I have roses trying to break through and new growth is showing up. This is not the only winter this has happened I just figure it is the price you pay for growing roses in OK. My roses are protected by a stockade fence on the north side and the house on the south side because it will minimize the wind but have never had problems with the wind, the BS is a different story and from the rose forum I guess I should be preventing BS right now. My problem deals with just buying roses that I think are pretty and never paying much attention to anything else. But I am getting some hedge types for the front yard this year to block some of the foot traffic from the neighbors.

Your roses are putting out new growth, Stephanie? With all this cold weather we've been having, that seems strange, doesn't it?

I am wondering how the old rugosas do in Oklahoma. Do they get BS easily? I really am NOT a rose grower. I tried growing an older tea rose, Dainty Bess, but the darned thing got bigger than it was touted to get, plus it got BS really bad. So, I yanked it out. I don't have time to coddle plants.

I still have an old climbing rose that grows by the driveway up a trellis. I've tried removing it, but it's difficult because the root ball is right up next to the house, behind a permanent built-in trellis, and it's hard to get in there with a spade or anything else. It get's black spot badly, too, but, like I said, I don't coddle it or anything, so it's just going to have to survive BS or die.

I did have one of those roses (they came in pink pots) about 6 years ago. My ex wanted a rose, so I told him to come and get the red one (it wasn't blooming yet) and told him where it was located. He accidentally dug up the pink one, which was fine. The rose didn't have any fragrance at all, and since I'm not a big rose fan to begin with, it wasn't that big a deal.

Dainty Bess was donated to someone who loved roses and was starting a new rose garden, so she went to a good home. The blooms were lovely on it, but too much trouble.

I butterfly garden now, and since most butterflies ignore most roses, except for the old fashioned rugosas, that's why I was inquiring about them.

Susan

Hi Susan, I mix stuff up so I have color in all beds all through the growing season. I will have rose bushes and under the bushes I have planted Sedum and spaced between cannas for the hummers and the hummer moth. I am addicted to the colors and growth.

Rugosa is much more suited to OK I think. I never have to spray or close the pruning areas with wood glue (rose boars) I have well amended soil (organic compose, mostly mushroom, and have mulched for the beds for years with organic mulch). I also feed twice a year with epsom salt and banana peels under the mulch. I also have hybrid teas which are a litle more care in this part of the world, closing your pruning cuts, never let the leaves get wet if you can avoid it, one inch of water per week, clean your pruners between each cut with a 10% bleach solution and keep the beds very clean. I do not spray with a chemical fungicide but rather use baking soda solutions and cut off the leaves effected by BS and simply try to control. That is the reason for the sedum under the rose bushes, they kind of hide the naked canes. Just typing it makes me tired. But when a cut a bouquet and bring it in the house or take it to the office I figure it is worth it. But I do have some hybrid teas which I have had for 10 years and they are still going strong.

On your climber, it probably is not getting enough air circulation which is essentially. No canes should cross over each other and the canes need growth outward from the center. Do you have a pix of the climber? I would love to take a look at it. Dont get rid of it, I may have to meet you someplace and take it off your hands : ) Heritage roses are very prized by some. I do have two climbers, New Dawn, in white on the stockade fence and the growth is get. In May, it looks like snow on the rose bushes the blooms are so thick.

By the way, I got an email from Ken, Marilyn's husband, on the evils of bermuda grass. I just laughed : ). We know how they feel about bermuda so I asked him how to grow it.

As to why they are budding, go figure? They are protected from the north wind and the north side of my house is a very interesting growth zone. The neighbors house is very close to the fence and the only thing I can figure out is the radiant heat from her brick and my brick plus the protection from the wind lets everything think it is warmer than it actually is. The only thing, there is very little sun on that side of the house. My hydrange always bloom before everyone elses in this area as well and they are on the same side close to the house as foundation plantings.

Anyway, after this week, I may not have anything with the cold front starting Tuesday. I did post to you and Randy about my recent purchases for butterfly attracting flowers for my back yard.

6 weeks and we have official spring. Happy gardening.

My rose as well as my Nikko Blue Hydrangea, and an azalea are up against my house on the north side. Actually my house kind of sits at a slant to the north and west, so they get some sun, too. Understory plantings are short mondo grass, centaurea dealbata, and I have tucked in a lindereima in front of the rose, so that the bare canes at bottom are covered. Oh, also a Japanese Honeysuckle. I know it's invasive, but the spot it is in is confined between house and bricks. I love the smell in spring and I grow it for the hummingbird moths, too.

Actually, the rose is blown about because it is on the corner next to the driveway. So, I don't think it is all air circulation causing the black spot. If you think you can dig it out, you can sure do that. The only thing I like about it is the Unicorn caterpillars that seem to love it.

I think I will plant a rugosa after what you have said about it. I would like to have one rose that doesn't succomb to BS and might be attractive to the butterflies.

Anyone know where I can rent a sod cutter? I was thinking about removing the bermuda and other things on my front yard next to the street. Then spraying it with Roundup in spring, waiting a week, spraying again, and then starting my lasagna bed. I will probably actually have to have someone come do it.

Guess what? I got approved on my social security disability first time around. I applied in November and it was approved last week. I've never heard of that. Usually takes 2 years.

Susan

I would suggest spending some time hanging out in the Antique Roses forum...they can give you all sorts of info :) After a few years peaking in there, I'm just starting out trying to grow a few.

It seems like I remember being discouraged from growing bourbons, but I don't remember why, it might have been a black spot issue. I was given lots of advice to grow "Maggie", "Mrs. BR Cant", and other Teas (not the same as hybrid teas) and China roses.

The ones I have now are mostly young'un's, so I can't really give you any resounding advice, but the AR forum is very helpful. :)

Lisa

Susan, you are right good air circulation is not usually the main reason for getting BS on roses.

It is the morning dew, rain, and inappropriate watering techniques which usually encourages BS to prosper on the leaves. For that reason, the common advice is to plant roses where they will receive a good amount of early, morning sun and only short durations of late afternoon shade; better yet, planting them where they receive full sun.

The strong wind problems mentioned above also cause some rose bushes to rock back and forth slightly as the winds gust into them. Such conditions are hard on the roses due to their rootballs becoming dried out by air-pockets formed in the soil by the rocking motion and some roses have even been known to have suffered roots breaking from the strong wind gusts pushing the vine from side to side too abruptly, during storms and other windy conditions.

A rose grower once told me to take special care to stake any two year or less planted vines, which are planted where they could encounter such strong wind forces.

Roses in Ok get black spot due to the several reasons:

1. Air circulation

2. Poor watering techniques

3. Poor housekeeping (including diposal of leaves etc)

4. The climate ( we have high humidity)

If you grow roses in Ok you have black spot at least H.tea or rugosa. If interested there is a simple mixture to apply every 7 to 10 days and practice good rose hygiene or simply grow roses resistant to diseases and pests. But growing just roses resistant takes all the fun out of it.

Just thought I would add my two cents. Stephanie

I haven't read the previous posts too well, but would like to say that I have Souvenir de la Malmaisson, Kronprincessin Viktoria, and Maggie (I didn't know she was a Bourbon), and they grow as well as my other roses. Our weather is unpredictable, but the roses seem to grow well. I don't have a fence, but do live in a neighborhood rather than in the country where nothing can stop the wind. I have no problem growing my roses. Yes, I do. Good grief. They live is what I mean to say. I have many problems like pulling weeds, getting down MMM, and spraying.

I would like to work towards a no spray garden (fungicide), but this is an area where that is not an easy task.

Sammy

Sammy, agree with you on the fungicide, I have not used it in several years. I figure if you have to dress like you are working in a toxic dump it is not what I want to put in the landscape.

Do have a recipe from Cornell University:

1 tbs. baking soda
1 tbs. horticulture oil
1 tbs. insecticidal soap

in one gallon of water.

I usually leave the soap out and use regular Dawn lemon dishwashing soap and seems to work just fine. I think most of my problems with BS is due to bad housekeeping when I get tired of always cleaning and working in August!

UNBEARABLE!!!!!!!

Boy, can I relate to NOT wanting to work in August. Even the mornings are intolerable then!

My Dainty Bess was in a humongous planter built in front of the house. It had pretty much full sun all day long, and nothing around it to compete for air circulation. It got plenty of AC. It was, however, an older hybrid tea. I think it was introduced in 1927. Some of the newer roses have been bred to be more resistant to BS. But, I had to pick one that wasn't. Hybrid teas, I have since learned, are an issue to grow in Oklahoma, in their own right, anyway. I think probably shrubs, hedgers, climbers, groundcover roses do best here. I had the little rose in a pink pot, but it had no fragrance, so I let someone have that one, too. I think of roses in terms of FRAGRANCE! If that has been bred out of the rose in order to make it more disease resistance, then what is the purpose of having a rose? That's just MHO.

I would love to have a rugosa and the rose hips for the birds in my garden, so I'll probably go that way. But, I do love to look at the pictures in my catalogs!

As I said, I can't use chemicals or even insecticidal soap in my garden because of all my beneficials, like the butterflies, moths, lady bugs, praying mantids, etc. My garden is a place where mother nature takes care of everything, while I stay out of the mix. Aphids are consumed by the ladybugs, mantids, and other insects. People hate the oleander aphids on their milkweeds, but I just leave them alone. Eventually, I get hundreds of lady bugs that come to feast on them. So, no more aphids!

Susan

Steffieok, I have heard bad things about the Cornell formula, and especially about using oil in the heat. I started to try it a few years ago, and changed my mind.

Susanlynne, I would like to suggest Topaz Jewel. It is a yellow rugosa, and I just love it. My others, Hansa and Grotenhorst(that's not quite the name) were always loaded with worms or caterpillars. They say not to spray rugosas, but the bugs always made them lose their leaves.

i spray the bugs and blooms for thrips, and of course it kills many aphids too. With so many roses, I use the big guns when I sprit the blooms rather than a soap that works on contact, but immediately stops working.

Sammy

Susanlynne...if you like the Dainty Bess, you should try "The Fairy". It looks similiar to me and I have a friend (our neighborhood rose queen) that has one in a huge glazed pot. She doesn't seem to have too much trouble with BS on any of her roses. She shakes flour over them with a pantyhose..wait maybe that's for aphids. I'll ask.

I have The Fairy, in fact, I have two :) They came with the house and I just got them id'd this past year. They are great roses bushes, not a lick of problem, unless you try to prune them....they are quite thorny!!!

Here's a pic of it, sorry it's not a more up-close shot, it's the pink next to the corner of the house. I do have a up close shots, but they are a little blurry. I can post those too if you want to see them. Both of mine are in partial shade and still do quite well. I think this bush had a pretty hard pruning last year, it normally is a little taller than it shows.

{{gwi:640064}}

Lisa

I love it! Great pic lisa. I've been considering getting one for myself but have been told not to mess with roses until I get better at gardening. Pooh! BTW, is that a red hot poker plant peeking through there? Love those!