This will be interesting Larry! I suspect Dawn will be the first to show up, who has grown this one; maybe Carol. I haven't grown it. But I grow a similar squash. I can say that you'll have to make that support structure REALLY sturdy, and, I bet only one plant will fill up the space.

George
Tahlequah, OK

Thanks George, it look like I already need to amend my plans. I have cattle panels that I can use if the bamboo is not strong enough. I think the cattle panels are 52"x16'and I have 4 of them. I could run a row of cattle panels down each side of the Seminole. I dont care if they run out into the lawn, as I intend to mow around them the way I do my sweet potatoes.

Larry

Good Morning, Larry!

You and George both know that I love my Seminole pumpkins.

How much space, Larry? Just every square foot you have available. I don't care how big of an area you make for them, they will fill that space and just keep on going. What I do is plant them near the north garden fence, where they fill all the area I left for them, then climb the 8' fence and climb up into the trees on the edge of the woodland. I've had them grow 20' up into the trees. I find it delightful that folks driving down our quiet country road can see pumpkins hanging from the trees in mid-summer through autumn.

Of course, without a fence, trellis or tree to climb, they'll ramble and roam all over the place. I've had 3 Seminole plants easily fill up 1200-1500 square feet of space. That's one reason I often grow them with corn. After the corn is harvested, I just let them run wild and climb all over the corn plants, the ground, the fence, etc. Sometimes they escape from their area and grow all over the garden if I fail to be ruthless and drag the vines back into their "assigned" area. Last year I let them ramble through one tomato row where they climbed all over the cages, and then through the adjacent corn patch, over the fence, and out into the pasture beyond.

You can stop them in their tracks anytime by pruning off the growing tips of the vines, but I don't do it. By the time they are rambling like mad, it is late summer and I let them fill in space where I harvested earlier crops like broccoli, cabbage, potatoes, etc. So, a certain amount of strategic planning goes into their location so that I know I'll be emptying out adjacent areas via harvesting and that will give them the space they want. If you prune the growing tips of the vines, they'll send out some lateral branches but you'll have slowed their forward progress.

For a trellis? I'd use really sturdy poles like 8' tall metal t-posts or something similarly sturdy.

Last year the Seminole pumpkins were not the most vigorous ones I've ever had, but they still crawled into one tomato bed, two corn patches--one to their west and one to their north, and began climbing the trellis where I was growing muskmelons. I cut them off the muskmelon trellis, but once the melons were done, I let the Seminoles climb back onto that trellis.

In a wet year (this should scare you since you often have a lot more rain than I do), I've had 3 to 6 plants fill 3,000 square feet. They are crazy monsters when they have plentiful water combined with plentiful heat.

One "problem" is that they won't die until frost hits them, as the squash bugs don't seem to bother them and neither do the SVBs. I'm not sure I've ever seen any pest of note on C. moschata type plants.

As much as I love Seminole. I get tired of trying to control their wild, rampant growth....so this year I am planting them in hay bale beds filled with hugelkultur materials in a 1200 square foot area north of the garage. They'll have that area all to themselves. they'll be able to climb the fence and escape into the open, unfenced pasture area frequented by deer, and I expect the deer will keep them pruned for me since they used to jump my shorter garden fence (4') and eat the pumpkin plants in spring.

I want to see what it is like to be able to walk through my big garden for once without having the Seminole pumpkin vines reaching out and grabbing me and everything I'm growing. I might actually have an orderly garden for once. It won't be too orderly though because I am growing two C. moschata summer squash varieties from the Orient. They may grow just as rampantly as Seminole, but we won't know that yet for a few more months.

I have been toying with the idea of planting Seminole on one side of my potting shed, which sits in full sun, and letting it climb all over the shed and shade it all summer long.

In closing, make the trellis as strong and sturdy as you reasonably can, and plant on a lot of space for these plants, and then be prepared for them to get 4 times as large as you figured they would!

There are so many finicky plants that do not grow as well as we like that it is pure joy to have a plant that knows no limits. : )

The Seminole Indians used to plant these pumpkins so they could climb into the trees, which is why I started planting them on the northern end of the garden near the woodland. I figured if it worked for them it would work for us, and it did. The pumpkins hanging from the trees did freak out some of our neighbors in our first years here.

Dawn

Dawn, thank you. I have a much better idea of what I want to do now. I feel I must use some of the bamboo to justify hauling 7 loads of it and dumping in the yard. I still have only worked through about half of it. I am shredding the small limbs and plan on chopping some smaller canes into short pieces to till into the soil and as mulch, hoping it will give a place for small critters to live and to add water getting into the soil. (I will be starting from scratch on this spot)

The area I plan to plant will only grow grass in the spring, it is the worst soil I have, so I know I will have to do a lot of work on the soil, which may take years to complete. I will only till and amend the hills where I plant the seed.

Thanks, again, Larry.

George, thanks for the vote, but I have not grown them. Not that I haven't tried though. One year I planted them and a month later the seed looked just like it did the day I planted the seed. I didn't get one vine that year. Last year I planted them twice and finally got one vine, I thought. That vine produced four very large squash, but they weren't Seminole. I cut the most immature one in the early winter, baked it, and made soup out of about 1/3 of it and froze the rest. It is still in the freezer. The other 3 are in the storm shelter and are still perfect. What ever I grew is a long keeper, but it isn't Seminole.

A neighbor just pulled up and gave me a beautiful gift. A Seminole Pumpkin plant. Here is the problem. 1. I am renting the home. 2. Would this plant cooperate with an Oak Tree? 3. I do have a wooded lot next door but its not my lot. Grant you the owner does not seem to be anywhere around. There are pepper shrubs and Pine trees on this lot. Will the Pumpkin vine co exists with either plant? 4. How do I water this plant? 5. Will the Central Florida soil be ok? Thanks

I'd just plant it and let it go. If the other lot is an empty lot, perhaps they won't mind if it rambles and roams over onto the empty lot and up into the trees. Mine do climb oak trees, and pecan trees and hackberry trees and any/every other tree we have. The trees don't seem to mind. I water them with a soaker hose on the ground that I leave there the entire season.

Since we're here in Oklahoma and you're there in Florida, I have no idea what the soil in central Florida is like, but I believe the Seminole pumpkins will do great there. They have, after all, been growing in Florida since roughly the 1500s. Here's a brief history of Seminole Pumpkin:

Slow Food USA: Ark of Taste--Seminole Pumpkin

Here's a more detailed story about them:

Seminole Pumpkins in History

Good luck with them.

Dawn

I answered above that I hadn't really grown Seminole, but turns out that it really was Seminole, just a little different shape. Most of you know that I planted it last year and had an enormous crop. I planted a few seed in a large container and it covered my yard, boats, jet skiis, and ran into two of my neighbors yards. One house is a rent house and was empty, and the owners just told me to let it grow there. They loved the pumpkin and took a few home each time they came to mow the lawn. I didn't weigh any on the last day we harvested them when we got a couple of wheelbarrels full, but at that point I had already harvested 1105 pounds. I gave them to everyone that was willing to take one (or 20) and I still have bins of them. Only one has gone bad over the winter, and it appeared to have a damaged spot which I hadn't seen when I put it away.

They keep so long, that I still had a few from the year before when last year's crop was ready to harvest. My poultry began to think they were on a squash diet for awhile.

If anyone attending the Spring Fling wants seed, I can throw a few squash in the car and it will provide all you need. I made pies, pumpkin soup, plain baked, but our favorite way was to peel and cut into chunks, spread on a large low sided pan, cover with chopped onion, salt and pepper, garlic powder and drizzle with olive oil. I roasted it in the convection oven, but just roasted plain would be fine.

I gave a clothes basket full to a friend and she cooked an oven full at once and prepared them for the freezer because she wanted to have them ready for quick pots of pumpkin and apple soup. The only thing I did to mine was wipe them down with a damp cloth dipped in a vinegar and water mixture to make susre they were free of dirt before I stored them. It is a lot of food, for very little effort and I didn't see one squash pest on my plants lst year. Some large animal put some deep scratches in one, and a pickup ran over a couple, but no insect damage at all. LOL

My gawd. !!! haha I MUST sow some this year, then. hehe Along with George's variety. WOO

This sure makes me excited to try Seminoles again. I tried them in my last garden. My one vine was at least 20+ feet and we probably got 7-8 squash. I did have a serious infestation of squash bugs though since these were planted with another pepo type squash. And by the time the population got away from me, we learned we were moving so I just gave up and let them take over. I hope the next tenant wasn't a gardener because I left them thousands of squash bugs! Yikes.

I have the perfect trellis for them this year, although I'm very tempted to plant a few in the orchard and let them ramble under the trees. As long as I keep an eye on them, and prevent them from climbing the fruit trees it seems like a good spot. Anyone see a reason why I shouldn't do this? My orchard is about 10-14" of wood chips.. If I get squash bugs, it could be a major overwintering problem I guess. Thoughts?

Just wanted to caution that the pickle worms utterly destroy Seminole Pumpkin here in Central Florida. Last year, only one pumpkin reached maturity from many small plants in my garden. Some gardeners wrap the pumpkins and other squash in panty hose. I tried using some light weight frost cover to wrap some pumpkins and still had pumpkins riddled with worms. One of my vines survived this last unseasonably warm winter and has a pumpkin almost reaching maturity. For some reason, I haven't seen the pickle worms yet this year! They live year round in south Florida and migrate up the east coast (and all of central Florida) during the summer. We are having a moderate drought and usually don't get rain until June, so maybe the dry weather is slowing them down this year. I imagine the vines would be very long if they received rain, which is scarce in this area.

Trellising does not protect the pumpkins from the worms. In spite of last year's disappointment, I planted more this winter to enjoy the foliage and the blooms, but this may be my last attempt. If you use chemicals, you might be able to control the pests, but I don't want to go that route.

Jadegarden, read somewhere in order to protect your pumpkins from pickle worms you should plant yellow squash. Pickle worms' favorite food.

Jadegarden, Thanks for the warning on the pickleworms. So far (knock on wood), I've never had pickleworms a single time---not in Texas where I gardened from the 1960s until the late 1990s, and not here in Oklahoma since 1999. I know they could show up in any given year, but so far they never have. Actually, as a lifelong gardener, I don't even think I've ever known anyone who ever has had pickleworms. Maybe they just don't make it as far north as we've lived and gardened. I know that they can make it as far north as Oklahoma, but if they do, they've never yet found our place.

I garden organically too so don't know what I'd do if pickleworms showed up here. I hope I never have to find out. I suppose I'd have to grow cucumbers under row covers or some sort of netting like Micromesh or Biothrips Proteknet, both of which work well to exclude squash vine borers and squash bugs, but obviously it would be impossible to grow Seminole under a row cover unless the row cover was the size of a circus tent.

I hope you get rain soon. The news about the drought y'all are experiencing down there, and all the wildfires (as well as the earlier-than-usual start of the Florida wildfire season) is just sad. It is hard to imagine Florida burning.

Dawn

Jeannette, you are right about yellow squash and pickle worms, add squash vine borers to that also. I probably shouldn't say this, but so far the zucchini are still producing after months and no pickle worms in sight. Just saw some squash bug nymphs the other day and smashed them. Never, never have my plants produced so long. They don't look good, but they keep coming back with more blooms. I think timing is everything in central Florida and a crystal ball to predict freezes would help!

Our weather is much warmer than we were in the past. Virtually no winter now. In the past, our temps would drop to 18 degrees and freeze out all the hibiscus and other tropicals. We don't have the duration of cold temps as in the past, maybe just one cold night about 29 degrees and back to high 80's. The rain patterns are totally different.

Dawn, I enjoy all your posts and the other members of this forum although I don't think I can add much to your discussion - but I have learned a lot from all of you! The fires are very widespread and continually popping up throughout Florida. We had smoke all last week. One of my neighbors, across the road thank goodness, managed to set the neighborhood on fire by starting a fire in his backyard. In a few minutes the fire had spread to two other homes. He didn't even own a hose! The firetruck took twenty minutes to arrive - they were probably fighting another fire. They are very overworked. For some weather reason, we are having very low humidity at times (25 - 35 percent last night which was a red flag warning), and there is no green grass in sight. Some of my tree size shrubs such as viburnum are almost completely shriveled up. I can only water so much. Water is restricted here and very expensive. Looking at the long term forecast for whatever that is worth, there probably won't be any rain until some time in June.

The weeds continue to grow although the trees are dying and the snakes are moving into my yard. Very aggressive. After trying repellants and moth balls, I bought a professional snake trap which is working beautifully. I can finally walk in the yard without a shovel in one hand! This was the last resort after my attempt to kill a snake which turned on me and charged straight at me. When I tried to back up quickly, I tripped and landed very hard on my back. I have extensive injuries to my spine from an auto accident, so this was the last thing that should have happened to me. The trap caught the really nasty guy or girl in about two hours. Worth every penny. I immediately ordered another trap for the other side of the yard! Caught another snake yesterday coming from my neighbor's yard. I know snakes have an important place in the environment, but these snakes become very aggressive and do bite when they get large. They don't run from anyone. The snakes are coming in from the fields looking for food (my zillion lizards) and water. I don't know how you tough Oklahomans live with copperheads in the garden! I have had coral snakes and pygmy rattlers for many years, but the snakes are absolutely a nightmare this year. Just saw a large poisonous Cuban frog in the yard yesterday! Yikes! He is also here for the lizard snacks.

The Seminole pumpkins are very drought tolerant. The plants just sit there waiting for water and then start growing again. Hope I can someday get a large harvest of them!

Pickle worm must be more of a Florida/Gulf State thing. I had one or two cases of it in Indiana, back in 1983 and that was it. Haven't had it anywhere else (NJ, OK, Central Mexico).

I do have a friend who has grown Seminole in Florida. He says it need a lot of additional organic material to make a crop. His soil is extremely poor. But it seems like a wonderful crop for Oklahoma clay!

George

Here is an article from the University of Florida on the pickleworm. I hope this opens: http://entnemdept.ufl.edu/creatures/veg/pickleworm.htm. Doesn't look like I posted this correctly. The Latin name is Diaphania nitidalis.