I did that a year ago, and it was the smartest thing I have ever done. I used Round Up. Some people don't like it, but compared to the exhaust in a lawn mower, edger, and weed eater, I think it is ok. I have to use it every 3 weeks or so, but not too much. It is just important to note that if a tad gets on a rose or another bush, it is gone. I carry clippers with me, and if it gets a drip on a rose branch, I cut it immediately.

A person also needs to be aware that it does not lose its potency in mulch or stones, just soil. It is recommended now to never even paint it on weeds in a garden bed.

Sammy

If you are serious about planting in the whole area, I would spray once to kill the grass, then cover with papers or cardboard and then heavy mulch and wait a while and then plant. Now if it is just seedlings, you can cut holes in the paper, if not, you will have to pull back the mulch and paper to make a small furrow for the seeds. There is a waiting period after using Glyphosphate (roundup) before you can plant. Be sure to wet the papers first and then lay down.

Do some research on lasagna gardening or no-work gardening. That should give you some good tips.

You didn't say what kind of grass you have. If you've been reading here much you know the problem that Burmuda Grass can be. A fescue/bluegrass lawn will be gone after one spraying with Roundup followed by the Lasagne method. Burmuda Grass--probably not. It will come through the slightest slit or opening. The only places we've had it we've had the luxury of spending an entire summer getting rid of it with repeated sprayings. If you don't have that the only sure way is to dig/pull every runner. You might be ahead to take a couple years to convert the entire yard to beds. Good luck.

I don't have the foggiest idea what kind of grass is out there. It is thin, light green, and kills my allergies. I plan on putting in some raised beds, or whatever as the years go on, but to be rid of that grass and out to garden some without having severe allergy migraines would be wonderful!!

Sammy - Is there a particular version of round up you used?

I think they are all about the same, you just dilute them differently. I always sprayed the least amount, then a couple of weeks later sprayed again.

Grasses and weeds do come back, but if you have begun killing the grass, then you don't have the problems with the beds that you would with grass.

In Oklahoma unless a gardener had your property in the past, you don't want to try to garden in the natural soil. I basically have beds of flowers, and mainly roses. For each rose, we dig a large hole, and replace the clay with top soil and compost. When you do this, you cannot do it in a small area, but you need to amend a large area so that you will not end up drowing your flowers in heavy rains. If this is information overload, I or anyone else can explain it later.

If you have the money, the best thing to do is to have truck loads of good soil brought in. I don't think there is any way to start amending clay with the newspaper thing, but it might work for some people.

Sorry to have written so much.

Sammy

I personally buy generic 41% glyphosate (Atwoods) and dilute it down to between 2% and 3% to spray on grass. The wholesale price of 41% glyphosate in one gallon containers has gone down from over $40 to less than $30 so you can find an occasional sale at places like Atwoods and pay around $30-$40 for enough diluted spray (20 gallons once diluted to bermuda-killing strength) to last a few years for most people. I have never had any grass except nutsedge ever survive it. It kills bermuda permanently every time I spray correctly. Blackberry, poison ivy, and some clovers take the hit but recover.

Many of the glyphosates are made by the same companies, and I have never had one (Ranger, KillzAll, etc.) not work. I spray a 3' radius around a couple hundred pecan trees twice per year, plus fencerows and around my garden beds. Unfortunately, bermuda grass has no problem running back into the cleared areas in short order when it is hot and we have rain, so "permanently" in my case just means all roots under the area sprayed are killed permanently.

I guess, you are saying the grass you got right now is green?

And there is no dead looking grass there?

Cause the dead looking grass at this time of the year is the dreaded Bermuda Grass!

There is another option for getting the grass out, a sod cutter.

But again, even there, B G is likely to come back. Cause if you missed just one tiny rhizome, you gave it another chance, and it takes it.

Personally, I use round up, and then still dig out all the root stuff I find.

Moni

Yeah, I cringe as I say this, but the grass is kind of dead looking. There is a lot of clover looking stuff mixed in that is green. When it gets more light I will try to take a picture and post it. (should have done that in the first place)

What about solarization? I do have on hand some big sheets of black plastic...

If you spray Round Up when the bermuda is dormant, you will kill the weeds but not the bermuda. That is what many people here do to have a nice lawn.

I don't remember the directions for the use of Round Up, but after we use it, we wait about a week to be sure we have not missed areas, then we pull out the grass. After that we work on the soil, and make sure that we are using only soil and not clay. It is a chore to take out clumps of clay, but you should. I have never gotten that stuff to mix with the good soil. After years when you take out a plant and replace it, you have clay and soil side by side. They never merge.

We put in our first gardens in last year and they are a couple of raised beds. We used a sod cutter, put a layer of cardboard down and fill the beds with all good soil, peat, etc. They looked nice and there wasn't any bermuda in them all summer...but they weren't very productive. Surely they will be this year!

Uh, Oh, dead looking is most likely BG

I feel for you.

Moni

All of my raised beds this year are going to have cardboard under them and new soil in them. I am getting a jump on where the rest of the beds will be, a new patio is going to be, etc. I am getting the plastic to solorize soon. I am hoping that will at least make it manageable, which I figure is the best I can hope for really.

I want to encourage you to try and get the BG crap dug out, or taken out with the help of a sod cutter. Otherwise you are likely to be very disappointed when the BG comes up in your raised beds.

Moni

I wouldn't buy roundup. I don't support Monsanto.

If you are wanting to plant things you actually EAT, then definitely don't use roundup... EVER.. Despite what the waiting period is, there have been tests done on people's fat that show poisons from things like roundup, lingering for decades... I wouldn't risk my health.

You could put down some of that weed cloth, cardboard, plastic and mulch.Just build raised bed gardens on top. Be sure to overlap everything, so there are no cracks. If the grass gets through all that, then you really have to admire it's will to survive... LOL :D

But roundup? I wouldn't use it, simply because it's a health hazard, and despite what the package says, it DOES stay in the soil for YEARS. If you want to eat it & have your family eat it, then by all means, knock yourself out. Just be aware that it does cause cancer and a slew of other health issues.

Docu, would you please give us a link to your source that says Round Up used on the soil, not on the plants caused cancer?

I know that they are altering the genetics of some vegetables so that commercial growers can spray acreage with Round Up and not kill the vegetables. But that is not what we are doing in our home gardens.

It is quite different to spray the soil, amend it, then plant vegetables.

Sammy

The wealth that roundup (glyphosate) has created for our country is staggering. The reduction in carbon emissions, reduction in fuel use, and the decrease in food costs due to this product are extremely significant. If you don't like Monsanto, then buy a generic from another source. If you choose to be organic, then that is great, but don't resort to dishonesty to make others feel bad about their choices.

I guess (even if true, which I doubt) if it lingers in me for decades, than it must not be too poisonous. I'm sure lots of other things I put on the soil (like ink from cardboard) linger for years.

A few years after living in our current home, we decided to start several fairly large flower beds. We rented a sod-cutter for an afternoon and that was the best money spent. It cut deep enough to remove the bermuda... roots and all. We installed green metal edging and I've rarely ever had to pull stray grass from my flower beds.

If you're just doing a small area, hand removing works fine but if you're doing any size area at all, at least consider renting a machine. Yes, it stinks paying out the rental fee but consider the pain you'll save your back and knees, and I bet you'll thank yourself.

My aunt from Georgia once commented during a visit "Is that Bermuda? Back home we consider that a weed!". I just laughed and thought to myself.... when it gets right down to it, so do we. lol

Good luck taming the evil beast!

Lynn

If you purchase produce or you use canned or frozen foods, they come from fields that are often sprayed with Round Up and insecticides. That is quite different from spraying Round Up, and mixing it with other soils to plant seeds in.

I have wondered about cardboard and newspapers myself. I wonder about the glue in cardboard. Frankly I would use it if it worked, but for me in this climate, I don't like what it does to water. Your soil can be as hard as a rock while you drown your plants.

Sammy

There are some things about Round-up that bothers me, but it isn't classified as a carcinogen so I don't worry about that.

It is an endocrine disrupter, so I'd never use it around pregnant women.

It is implicated in birth defects/deformaties in some aquatic life, including frogs, so I don't use it near waterways.

Unless you purchase and eat only food that is certified organic, you're eating crops raised in/near/around fields treated with glysophates and insecticides, and some crops are sprayed with fungicides...and sometimes as often as three times a week. So, using a little bit of a non-carcinogenic herbicide is mild by comparison.

Cardboards are made from nontoxic materials. I researched it before I started using them in my bed-building. Most newspaper inks break down very quickly and also are non-toxic as is newsprint, but you shouldn't use the glossy inserts as they are not considered as safe.

I have horrible clay and cardboard works for me really well in terms of keeping the soil moist, but I do heap 4 to 6" of mulch on top of it. Of course, in a terrible drought year when we have only 18" or 24" of soil, nothing helps the clay as it is baked as hard as concrete. In a good, wet year, though, the cardboard is a lifesaver and really attracts earthworms, which in turn help improve the soil as they work their way through it. Coming off of 53" of moisture last year, I have the best soil this year that I've ever had because all the mulch decayed nicely into compost, but there wasn't enough heat to really 'eat it up' so my beds are in fine shape this spring.

Lynn, I agree about the sod cutter. As long as you aren't trying to use it in extremely rocky/caliche clay soil, or in very hard clay, it is a wonder tool.

Dawn

We talked about renting a sod cutter, but didn't think that it would cut deeply enough to remove all of those horrible BG roots. It seemed like I was digging down to about 8 inches or so by hand. I'd love to hear more about how it works, since we have a ton more of the evil stuff to get rid of this year and any organic alternative to hand digging sounds good to me.

-Megan

Dawn, do you know why cardboard is not recycled? In our school parking lot we have a recycle container. We also have a group o students who pick up recycle papers each week, but the signs say not to put in cardboard. That is why I guessed about the glue.

I used newspapers in different years, but did not feel that I could adequately measure the amount of water to use. I used it during the growing season, not in anticipation of the next year's growth.

Sammy

Sammy,

Much cardboard is recycled, but I don't think it is very cost-effective to recycle it and not every recycling program includes it. In the US, about 70% of all corrugated cardboard is recycled. The glue is non-toxic and water soluable and doesn't break down into anything hazardous either.

There are lots of reasons various cardboard products cannot be recycled, including any that have staples, tape, sticky labels, etc. still attached to the cardboard because those items jam up the cardboard processing machines. You also cannot recycle wet cardboard because it will mold during the collection and transport process. I don't think you can recycle waxed cardboard or corrugated cardboard printed using some inks.

Many recycling programs do not accept cardboard, but many large companies recycle their corrugated cardboard and bale it for easy handling. I assume a waste management/recycling firm picks up the bales of cardboard from the businesses that do choose to recycle it.

Dawn

If you live in a city with a WalMart go there about 3 a.m. in the morning. They have a huge harvest of cardboard you can have for free--except for a few companies who actually recycle their cardboard boxes and store them on clothing-like racks and transport them back to the factory for replenishment.

Just grab a cart or two and follow the stockers--they will give you their folded cardboard. (I admit, I have to sometimes get up that early--the European markets are 6-8 hours earlier than we are so I have to get up sometimes at the wee hours....)

Otherwise, go to the furniture stores--they have huge cardboard boxes they use for sofas and the like which they will gladly give to you. Boxes that size require a pickup truck or trailer, though. Otherwise, do the 3:00 a.m. WalMart thing.

You would be surprised at how few markings are on these boxes....They know their delivery point and don't waste the ink on advertisement because no one sees the box. They only have identification points.

Using cardboard in the garden made my life a lot easier last year (thank you gardenweb people!). It was pretty much decayed by winter, and it kept the weeds away all summer and fall. This year I have enough stored in my garage and barn to cover about 1000 sq feet (family of 8 eating pizza once per week!). My wife is tired of it, and my friends laugh at me.

I love cardboard and feel like it has helped a great deal in the ongoing battles with bermuda.

I too want to join in the praise of cardboard. I did the lasagna method last year and used lots and lots of cardboard and nearly chocked out all the bermuda. The area was a mix of all kinds of grass and weeds and I later only had to spot spray some bermuda straglers. And I have oodles of worms..soil looks really good this spring. We also layerd manures and leaves.
Now I am spreading more cardboard with some mulch around our 2nd year fruit trees. Love the stuff.

I may do both plastic and bits of cardboard and see what happens, since I am looking to do the whole back yard, I need a lot! (yes, I hate to mow grass this much! LOL :) )

Using both together works pretty well for me, probably better than using either one alone.

I hate mowing too, and we have acreage so mowing and weed-eating takes a huge chunk out of our summer, but less and less every year as we convert more former turf grass areas to mixed beds of trees, shrubs and flowers.

Sammy, the reason why the container may specify not to put in cardboard could be who is collecting the paper for recycling. Some uses require paper where the fibers are longer. Each time paper is recycled the fibers of the finished paper get shorter and weaker. Corrugated boxes can be recycled but only into new such boxes or packaging, brown paper bags, mailing tubes, or paperboard such as is used for cereal boxes. The company collecting the paper could be recycling into other uses for which corrugated paper might not be suitable.

Debra

I agree with you now that you put it that way, Debra. I think the container at my school is sponsored by the newspaper company. Considering what you wrote, they may have little use for cardboard, and more for papers.

Sammy