Ok, Brooke, you DID make a judgment with "not nice" but you DIDN'T say what, if any, action you'd take. My interpretation was NOT like the orchid collector because "collecting" is a verb and "not nice" is a judgment ! He didn't say the orchids were not nice !!

"Just like your interpretation of the man collecting orchids from the wild when he may have used the term to mean he is "collecting" plants from his native area."
Sorry, but I fail to see a difference in that statement.

YES, everything we do, hear, see, think, or believe IS a personal interpretation ! How else do you plan on doing it ?? I know pigs are nice, friendly and clean. I love to eat them 3 times a week !!

Roast pork dinners !! C-

I cannot help myself I must throw in my two cents...Chryss If collection is such a bad word how do you feel about introduced species....as much or even more damaging than IRRESPONSIBLE collection. What if that wild pig you are discussing is a feral pig and is responsible for damaging the native habitat and wild orchids. Sometimes to protect something we must take action..especially to correct our past mistakes.
What was meant when someone made a statement about having done your dirty work for you is that the orchids on YOUR and my shelves are the direct result of collection at one time or another....of seeds or plants. And if you dont want to protect the orchid from the perhaps introduced wild pig because of so called natures way then even seed collecting should be wrong. You should take every plant you own and throw it away.
You also made the statement that if YOU lived there you would just enjoy them in nature....What about the damage you would do to the forest hiking through it to see these orchids. Are the tropical plants at your feet somehow less worthwhile than the orchid? What would your house be built of ...wood...what then about the orchids that lived on that tree you killed to build your house?
I am an avid environmentalist and I have a degree in ecology..I love and respect every aspect of nature including the scary or unpleasant ones and believe we should do whatever it takes to protect our natural resources ....But the words ALWAYS and NEVER should be words that incite rants not collection. We should protect orchids and therefore our environment and sometimes collection=protection.
Collection by a single person in his own back yard is not what causes the loss of orchids and other plants and animals in the wild......loss of habitat for reasons too numerous to list is a much more valid arguement.
Finally, you state "I DON'T tolerate wild orchid collectors, or animal, or insect, or plant, or fish, etc.. !!!!!" Kill any mosqitoes or roaches...eat any fish or vegies....Buy any orchids lately!!!!!!

Julia

Ahh.....Julia......you are correct. Introduced wild feral pigs. Florida Fresh Water and Game is about the business of removing them before they completely destroy this beautiful river swamp. No one loves this magical place more than I. No one.

Some of us go about saving the wild orchids, so that they live, and do not die an unnatural death at the hand of man and his past mistakes - just as you say.

And then, some of us who say things like....

>"You step in and take an action that changes the ecology (orchids off fallen trees) without taking responsibility for the consequences to the wild pigs (tip of the iceberg).">"Let me repeat this , I DON'T COLLECT WILD ANYTHINGS FROM NATURE !!!">" Let me rephrase my "ranting" statement; I DON'T tolerate wild orchid collectors, or animal, or insect, or plant, or fish, etc.. !!!!!">"Thank you arthur, for the ability you've shown for translating english ! Natural cycles IS what I've been talking about." go about saving hapless, helpless Regal moth caterpillars..........
http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/orchids/con072233044195.html?4

Your wisdom is refreshing Julia.

OK Chryss, let me see if I can phrase this word "collecting" very elementary so you understand it.

I have been "collecting" orchids for several years.

You have been "collecting" orchids for ????? years.

Most people who bother to read an orchid forum, are "collecting" orchids.

I collect my orchids via the 'net, at orchid shows, at my orchid club and sometimes through personal friends I made on the 'net.

You read one word - collecting - and proceeded to rip a new one in a person relatively new to the forum and stated emphatically, that wild orchid collecting will not be tolerated. No where in his inquiry on IDing a plant did he use the word - wild.

I don't have wild boars in KY so I have no opinion of what I would do if I had them destroying my property. I do stand by my statement of not nice in referring to wild boars.

I had pork roast coated with garlic and basil last week but tonight is broiled loin chops with spiced apples and mac and cheese. I wonder if wild boar is good and how I would cook it?

Brooke

http://gallery.orchidspng.com/displayimage.php?album=random&cat=0amp;pos=-2041

The principal photograph from this link looks remarkably similar to pngphil's photo.

Can anyone ID the genus? That would be an excellent start!

Stitzelweller

Your wisdom has deserted you pcan, or is it just that you're really a parrot ?? All you've done is quote me !! BTW, isn't pcan a NUT ???!!!

C-

"collecting orchids in my garden from those that are growing locally"

Brooke, #1 = it's OBVIOUS that he/she DIDN'T buy them anywhere or at the very least each would have a tag that read "Dendrobium" or "Phalaenopsis" or whatever. #2 = If he/she DID really want to ID them and DID really buy them he/she WOULD have asked the seller what they were which, leads to the LOGICAL #3 = they WERE GROWING locally meaning WILD LOCALLY. Unless your logic went to the same place that pcan's wisdom did this is the answer to your incorrect interpretation of the word "collecting" used above !!!

Julia, you spent your 2 cents now you have NO SENSE !!! You need a refresher course in English 101 !! "even seed collecting should be wrong. You should take every plant you own and throw it away" Now THAT is irrational !! Even nonsensical !!

"What about the damage you would do to the forest hiking through it to see these orchids. Are the tropical plants at your feet somehow less worthwhile than the orchid? What would your house be built of ...wood...what then about the orchids that lived on that tree you killed to build your house?"

When did I say ANYTHING about hiking ?? Your fantasy has taken you way out of the realm of reality !! I haven't built a house, what about you ?? I don't kill trees, have you ?? I DON'T collect mosquitos, or roaches, or fish, or vegetables. AND I DON'T buy orchids that have been collected from the wild !!! You need to also take COMPREHENSION 101 !!! Where did you EVER get a degree, UNIVERSITY of CRACKER JACKS ???

C-

I don't mind admitting when I am wrong and have found out KY does have wild boars. Living in the pristeen Blue Grass has kept me from the ravages of the beast. They must hang out in the mountains of E. KY or swimming the river and sneaking into W. KY from Arkansas.

http://fw.ky.gov/08turkey4.asp

It appears I must put away my weapon of choice, the slingshot, and bring out the shotgun. The good news, it is open season on wild boars year round :>)

Brooke

Here is a link that might be useful: hunting in KY

"My Weapon of Choice"? MORE LIGHT!"

Does this adage from Chicago apply to wild boars?

ROTFLMAO

Brooke

"Does this adage from Chicago apply to wild boars?"

Hang in there Stitz!

You seem to have sent Brooke into a fit of laughter!

BUT!!!

Our resident "countess" should be along shortly to confirm or deny.

(my money is on - confirm....;0)

Ok! It's MY turn! :-)

From the GW Orchid Forum Graveyard!!
http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/orchids/msg120735593218.html

Ah yes, the good ole days.

Stitz you will need to enlighten (little play on words there :>) me as to the proper useage of light in wild boar hunting. As I said earlier, they aren't a problem here, yet, but I do want to be prepared just in case.

Brooke

Now we are talking about feral pigs as well as trading insults. When i said i left the fallen orchids.....that was for the benefit of whatever. A national park is a place where we should go and look and that is all.

Many people talk about the environment and do nothing much. ( Me included).

Pat, my nickname is arthurm and i am not a buddy of anyone here.

I (not "i") shall add you to my spell-checker this MOMENT Sir!!!

Those Dang American's have messed up your forum - YET AGAIN!!!

just funnin ya there ........"sorta".....lol.......
-------------------------------------------------------------
Oh hoho stitz.....we BAD!!!....LOL...........

At least we don't go around talking to ourselves. Not in "public" anyway.

(all pictures "removed" - of course - )
http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/orchids/msg122056029288.html

There are little rules of life that make it better for everyone, such as walking on the correct side of the footpath and so on.

In an unmoderated forum, there are some general little rules that are often broken, but do not matter all that much.

The orchid gallery is for "you beaut pictures" of "my" orchids
The discussion page is for discussion (and pictures) relating to orchid culture
The conversations page is for non-orchid conversations. It is sadly in steep decline.

Pat, for some reason, you do not think that point i in my little list does not apply to you.

drop-box - 4th one down
http://letters.gardenweb.com/letters/mailed.html

WOOHOO we haven't had a good natured brawl like this since the eruption back in 07...I am a little sad I didn't catch this before it disintegrated into chaos, but I'm going to chuck my two cents in anyway and hope it doesn't get lost in the fray :)

I used to be a hard-core environmentalist until I came to university and took some courses on sustainability and economic development and the environment. I realized that not everything is black and white and the world is a complicated place - sometimes forests do need to be logged. Everything comes down to a balance of pros and cons, and without knowing the impact of the whole decision, it is impossible (and appears rather ignorant to observers) to zealously fend for one side or the other.

When it comes to environmental situations, there is a common argument that 'us in our concrete jungles have no right to criticize or judge'...while this is, to a degree, true, I don't think it's reasonable to use this to discredit any sort of opinion or value set. For instance, just because I'm a male who never plans to have children doesn't discredit me from having an opinion on abortion. Nonetheless, strong opinions should never be backed solely by passion.

Chryss, I admire your vehement defence for nature although I agree with the others that jumping to conclusions is a little unnecessary. If you'll notice, I did try to subtly inquire the origin of these plants when I asked "did it have a tag when you *bought* it?" ; ) but the OP never responded. Ah well.

To everyone else - I think as a popular orchid forum, it's our role and responsibility to have good discussion about controversial topics rather than degenerate into clashes when something like this comes up. Someone new to this hobby my not realize that transplanting plants from the wild into their garden is generally NOT something that is appreciated, unless done with certain intentions/prior knowledge of care/whatever values you have that deem it appropriate to collect wild specimens. Is it not therefore prudent to educate through discussion rather than attack each other?

My personal opinion (keep those first three words in mind :)) is that orchid collection (or for that matter, anything wild collected) should only be done if the thing in question is properly identified, the species success to survive in the wild is not to be diminished with it's collection, it's successful maintenance ex situ can be pretty much guaranteed, and above all, there's a good reason to do it. I think that's a pretty good set of simple rules to follow although the last part may be a little subjective. I'd welcome anyone who disagrees, as I love having my opinions smashed apart...that's how they get stronger :)

-cal

Pat--Thank you for the link! THAT thread is legendary. I missed it due to the holidays and other excuses. I kept reading about it yet never saw it!

I nearly died laffing yesterday when I read the now famous line,

"Not over light and underwatered, the opposite. Underlight and overwatered"

The exquisite repartee between Mike_Gee and her creator is hilarious! So intricately scripted!!

Ah, yes....the good ol' days....

--Stitz--

Oh Stitz that was just one of many where we sang our praises to ourself. After all, if you can't love and agree with yourself, who else will?

Too bad the REALLY interesting parts, just before the strange out of place pic of my g/h is located, was very entertaining. I guess people who correspond with themselves think other people sit around and make things up too.

Thanks for your common sense approach Calvin, your voice is always refreshing.

Brooke

Ah..Stitz - yes - "So intricately scripted!!"

Overdone = undone. Picture proof.

The good ol' days? ...... oh yeah. Sad too. I'm sad for a boy named Samuel.
GW deleted a lot (the fate of this thread, perhaps). Some remains. Some falls off the end of the archives as we speak.

The followers, believers. The ones who trusted, the delusional and gullible, and the innocent..... Some remain, some have long gone. (there I go again Chryss ;0)

Calvin - championing no one, condemning no one. Always the middleman, always the voice of reason. My hat is off to you, my friend.

Pat..............

Hey, you guys laughing about the good ole days! Share your links with someone who was part of them-- put your urls in the link box so little computer morons like me can just click them! The other thing is too hard, and I'm missing out on all the laughs.

Can I add just one little thing to the chaos? Chryss, when people want to hear a sermon, they usually go to church. Lighten up on people a little-- just for the innocent bystander's sake. A serial murderer might deserve that kind of unrelenting assault on character. Most other people's sins fall far short of that, mine and thine included. And we don't take pleasure in seeing someone get their skin ripped off and their eyes gouged out. Especially in a place they go to for friendship and shared interests. In fact, it upsets people, and gallant people like Pat feel they have to step in and take some of the flak.

And, finally, as a number of people above tried to say in less poetic langugage-- "Look to the mote in thine own eye". Sanctimonious self-justification is so unbecoming, you know. You're not always right-- and a person's feelings matter, too. Just as much as an orchid's or a wild boar's. You need serious work learning to criticize while leaving the other person's self-esteem intact. IMO, of course.

Mehitabel, to use the url's that have been provided,
"copy" the url as if you would copy anything else.
"click" the active browser box at the top of your screen
"paste" the url into the browser box
"click" the "Go" button
Voila!!

Perhaps, someone will explain to me the "How to..." in creating an active link within the text of my posts. It's a skill that I haven't learned.....yet.

No one should miss out on the fun! Let's help each other!

--Stitz--

You mean like the one below?

Do the copy and paste thingee in the Optional Link URL, then Name of the Link in the next box down and when you preview the message the link should be hot.

I haven't found a way to hot link something inside the message but can by using the URL link below the typed message.

Brooke

Here is a link that might be useful: post from the past

Good grief! Bible quotes, prayers and sins??

What next?

Hummingbirds!!!! Yeah!!!

I hope I didn't get you into trouble "over there", Jane. (wink)

Nahh, I never get in trouble. I've been around here too long.

This is one of the "links" which wasn't "hot" earlier.

This is only a test of my internet skills. Should I succeed, a whole new world will open for me!

Here is a link that might be useful: dark green droopy leaves

NOW, how do I put a "hot" link in the body of the text message, please?

I'm guessing that HTML is used....?
I can do that!

--Stitz--

Html. I've forgotten. Too old.
But you can pay Flickr to become a pro and you don't have to fiddle with geek stuff because they supply the code.
I paid about $50 for two years subscription.

Sample;

Two very simple lines of code can be very useful in the online world!

[a href="LINK YOU WANT TO CONNECT TO"] Text you want to become the link [/a]

simply replace the [] brackets with pointy brackets! So for instance:

[a href="www.google.com"]google![/a] with pointy brackets will show up on your post as:

google!

The second useful one is to use [img src="link of Image"] and once again replace with the pointy brackets. This will imbed an image in your post (like arthur's above)...but be careful because some hosts won't like you linking to pictures hosted on their servers...flickr allows it though! They are wonderful.

-cal

Now!!! Computer school as I slept!!!

"I've been around here too long."
Hmmmm.....(wink)

Remember the OP? pngphil? Maybe, he will return one day and find a name for the NOID in his collection?!

Dendrobium has been suggested by our scholars. Agreed?

Maybe, we can work on the species if we get agreement. At least, pare it down to a very few "known" possibilities. Down thar in the bush of PNG, it may not even have a scientific name, yet.

I remember stitz.

Here's another. This one completely ignored or overlooked, perhaps. I wish these pictures were a bit bigger, but I like this one even better than the first. I wish I knew the name.

Pat

Here is a link that might be useful: take a look at this

Stitz, thanks very much for the tip about copying. I always thought (yeah, dumb) I had to type the thing letter by letter into the browser window, and no way to do that accurately with such a long string. So thanks for showing me the easy way :)

Calvin, I appreciate your really generous spirit, repeatedly on display. :) I also appreciate the mini-tutorial on code. I'm going to print it up so I can fiddle with it on a day when my brain feels extra vigorous. About every 6 months or so it's revived enough to learn something new

Mehitabel,

Webster "sanctimony - The external appearance of sanctity; affected or hypocritical devoutness."

Now exactly WHEN did you hear ME spouting "IMO" from the bible ?? Who's the hypocrite here ??

I was willing to leave it lie as everyone else had quit but no-o-o-o-o-o-o, there's always some self righteous, last minute jumper on the band wagon !! Hey, "innocent bystander" "little computer moron" !! That wagon left DAYS ago !!! Go home, or better yet, go back to church !

BTW, -cal, thanks for a very much needed diplomatic viewpoint !

Now, I'm following the Gallery rules arthurm !

Dtps. Little Blue Bird
{{gwi:1111489}}

Den. Lemon Ice 'H & R'
{{gwi:1111491}}

And THAT'S why I'm here !!!

C-

Boy that rant certainly put a 70+ year old lady with a PhD in her place - good job Chryss. You do have a way with the written word.

You surpass my very favorite orchid forum insulter of all time - the wonderous gee-willikers.

Here are some of my current bloomers

C. dowiana

C. harrisonia 'Streeter's Choice HCC/AOS

Tolu. velutina {{gwi:187396}} For size reference {{gwi:187397}}

Enc. cochleata

Paph. kolopakingii

Phrag. Mountain Maid

To share pictures, to expand my orchid education and to share the comraderie - THAT'S why I here!!!

B

Well, Chryss, I thought all literate people could quote the bible. After all, Winston Churchill did that all thru WWII, and saved Britain with it, and only the genuine ignorati would call him eloquent without knowing that he was cribbing liberally from the King James.

As for sanctimony-- there's a little bit of the schoolmarm in me, that's true. But I do try to hold back on the shrilling and shrieking. You forget that it's not that other people *can't* shrill like fishwives, it's that they don't like to stoop that low. If "unbecoming" is another word you don't like, then let's call it demeaning. Demaning to the shriller and shrieker, my dear, not to me.

But if you think shrilling at people like a male fishwife becomes you, by all means, go ahead. And if someone like Pat jumps in to defend someone, by all means, call her a NUT. That's a really inspired way to show your exquisite and elevated taste and manners, and your extensive vocabulary, too.

As for religion, your insistence that everyone else comply and agree with the dogma of the new religion of Eco-poopery, despite rational arguments put by several posters above, shows you to be the bible-thumper. Just the new, revised, 2008 edition of the Eco-poopery Bible, not the King James. Pretty boring and repeitious, actually.

Enjoy the sound of your own shrieking, you midget, no one else is listening. And I'm confident no one is admiring.

Back to the Highlands of PNG. As far as i know the only way in is by plane.
Nearest country Australia.
Want to buy some orchids from a nursery in Australia? Here are some figures from a catalogue in 2007.
Minimum order $500
Packing and Documentation $100 in cites, Photosanitary Certificate, bla, bla,bla.
Freight extra at cost.
The aussie dollar is worth about 95US cents.
Expensive.

Chyss, i said i was with you "sorta" and i am "sorta" because green views are necessary in the world of today.
But i think you have to be a practical green rather than rabid otherwise the message gets lost.

Now, for the last time. The original poster should have posted this on discussions. Nothing wrong with posting a picture over there provided it is for some sort of purpose. ID, Linked to discussions/cultivation/genetics.

However, if it is just to show my latest "you beaut" orchid in bloom the first post should be on the gallery.

I stand by my statement about leaving orchids fallen from trees on the ground, though i know many people who think it is fine to pick them up, even in a National Park.

PS. I do not have a PHD or anything like it and that sort of stuff should not matter here. This is an orchid forum and i like to think it doesn't matter if you not an American to participate.

Cal,

Your post of 6/21/08, 14:33 looks like the answer!

Dendrobium pseudoglomeratum perhaps? :)

Let's declare this d-e-a-d.

Arthurm I was pointing out the fact that a person with a PhD probably knows what the meaning and correct useage of the word sanctimonious would be.

I don't think anyone who has posted to this thread advocates collecting wild orchids. Even the original poster did not say he was collecting wild orchids - only the ones native to his area. We do not know how he is collecting them nor can we judge what we don't actually know.

As people, rather gently at first, tried to sway someone to ease up in his pronounciations, did the ranting and insults at us begin.

No one mentioned collecting orchids in a national park. Collecting orchids on your own property to keep them from being wild pig food is totally acceptable. Here in the US, it is your property to do with as you see fit as long as something isn't on the endangered list. Wild pigs aren't endangered and neither are the common orchids in FL.

Being self-righteous about something half a world away, with laws you don't know/understand seems very hypocritical to me. I can't tell you in Australia what do to with The Law According to Brooke - your country, your laws, your morals. I may not like them, condone them, even hate them, but I hope I have enough common decency and manners to treat you as an individual with respect.

You may hate my phals, but I respect your love for other orchids or you wouldn't be on an orchid forum. Personally, I don't care for Dens but 50,000 plus, there are orchids for everyone.

Brooke

"Ranting and insults at US begin"

You're a bad score keeper, Brooke. I was the first to be insulted, if only between the lines ! Then, like a pack of wolves smelling blood you ALL one by one jumped in for a bite !! All in good fun I'm SURE.

Only the last one, while I was quietly licking my wounds, had to jump in for a last kick at the downed dog !! Then finished off muttering about her hurt feelings as she "innocently" (as before) KICKED again ! Mean kicker for an Eco poopery Phd-er !!

For you Julia, I know just what it would be like, anthropomorphically, to be a fox passing by a hen coop saying how much he likes eggs and watching in dismay as the paranoid screaming hens call him a "sanctimonious, 'Above it all', nonsensical, hypocritical, irrational, **otherworldly**, ranter" "serial killer" "hard core environmentalist" "shrilling and shrieking male fishwife" "forum insulter" and "Eco-poopery bible thumper" in a most rational way, of course, while trying to wake the farmer to come out and shoot him !

Yes, well, I haven't had as much fun or as intelligent a discussion since CB radio days !!! Coelogyne mossiae for you, arthurm, and I'm not your buddy either. You have my respect. -cal, also. Oh, GEEZ !! I can hear the next blast coming around the corner about being a misogynist ! Just have to push a little harder you beings from Venus !!! :D

Coelogyne mossiae
{{gwi:1111498}}

C-

Brooke, please read my post again SLOWLY. I'm not guilty of most of the things you accuse me of.
The last sentence is especially ironic, seeing i have spent the last hour or so watering my collection of indoor grown Phals.

I didn't accuse you of anything arthurm - it was simply topics that came up during the "discussion", not raised by you but by others during the "discussion".

So please reread my post again SLOWLY and see it was simply topics of the "discussion" raised by other people.

The only thing you said was walking in a National Park you would let an orchid lay where it fell. No one advocated picking up the disturbed orchid in a National Park. The discussion had to do with an orchid that fell from a tree, in FL, on someone's private property that would be eaten by a wild pig. It is the property owner's prerogative to do as they please with the orchid as long as it is not illegal.

I guess there really is a distict difference between understanding American butchered English with Aussie English. The post was not directed at you and I'm sorry you saw it in that light. Read the post again, SLOWLY, and see if you can glean my point of view because it was agreeing with your post.

As far as phals, you don't love them the way I do :>)

Brooke

Ahh, deja vu...

{{gwi:1111499}}

Pigs make really great pets and can be housebroken just like a dog. As long as they are not feral, here's to everyone having a pig for a pet.

Brooke

Let me see now, Jane....is that the right 'side of bacon' ......or the wrong side......again.......(wink)......
--------------------------------
arthur: seeing that you singled me out by name above as THE "rule" breaker - I assume, the re-play of the "rules" was for my benefit, and PNGphil, of course.

The fact of the matter is, I simply do not care what you think of where I post, when I post, or what I post. Your opinion does not matter, to me. There are untold droves of sweetie-pies here that would fallow your directives, lap up your every utterance, and do as they are told. I am sure you are quite flattered at the shear numbers. Some people respond well when others in self-imagined positions of authority "should" on them.

I am not one of those people.

It is not your "job" to rattle off the "rules". I provided you above with the link. Report me. If I annoy you that much, put your money where your mouth is (as it were). You talk the talk - now walk the walk. Take action, and stop whining. Report me, to the ONLY authority here. Do it!

Failing that - you do have a scroll button - do you not?

Dear Pat,
What you do really doesn't matter all that much. to me or any one else for that matter.
The rules as you call them are only informal anyway, but if you wish to clutter up the discussion page with your "you beaut" pictures that is fine, i can always hit the scroll button.

My Dear Arthurm,
"Clutter" is in the eye of the beholder, my friend. Not long ago "to many phal posts" on the "discussions side" were looked upon as (I would take it) clutter. The "conversations side" can be "enlightening" indeed, to say the least........

Truce, Arthur! With your permission to do as I please - I, in turn, grant you mine, and I leave you to it.

Sleep well, Arthur.
Pat

Someone, PLEASE
crank up the telephone line to PNG!