Beth,

The problem with yellow leaves on tomato plants is that they indicate stress, but not necessarily the cause of the stress. I've never had seedlings turn that yellow while growing inside, so I don't know if I can guess what would cause it.

Try letting the soil dry out completely. You want the plants to be just at the point where they are about to wilt, but then you don't let them wilt--you water them when they are just about to start wilting. Observe them closely and see if the color improves even slightly as they dry out. Other signs of overwatering would be tiny fungal growths on the soil surface, or little fungus gnats flying around the plants.

Other questions I have that might help lead us towards the right diagnosis:

What kind of soil are they planted in? Is it a sterile soil-less planting mix? ProMix? MetroMix? Miracle Grow Potting Soil? Miracle Grow Moisture Retaining Soil? Ordinary dirt from the yard? Something else?

Have they been fed anything? If so, what? Do you have any Epsom Salts sitting around the house?

Does your water have a high salt content?

Are they still indoors under lights? Have they been getting any direct sunlight on the leaves at all? I notice that the leaf at the far left is either very yellow or very bleached out, or it could be a glare from the photo. What do you think? It is as light as it seems to be?

I'm sort of leaning towards it being overwatering which can lead to a lack of nutrient uptake. That could explain your green veins with yellowing leaves. It might be they need nitrogen or magnesium or iron, but that is just a raw guess at this point and not one I am sure of or totally comfortable with.

Are your lights just normal fluorescent lights? How close to the lights have the plants been? Have the leaves touched the lights?

Finally, how warm or cool are you keeping the plants during the day and at night?

Sorry for all the questions. At least your plants are inside in cups and that reduces the possible problems by about 50%.

I hope other experienced tomato seedling growers will throw in their two cents. Jay? Brian? George? Jill? Tomatoman Billy? Laura? Seedmama? Ilene? Carol? All you others who grow tomatoes too.....what do y'all think? Have any of you seen this in seedlings that are still safely inside in their little cups????

Dawn

I'm going to assume the cups have drainage holes? The next immediate thing that comes to mind is lighting. For a plant that large/tall, the stem seems to much too thin, but maybe that's just me. Do you have these under lights or are they on window sill or something else?

Brian

Well, it looks a bit weak and could be over watering and low light. I only think this because I've been there. Always learning. I have a major problem with overwatering. Just can't seem to let them sit for long. But then my setup is in a semi heated garage in small homemade greenhouse and have to worry with temperature problems. I do however have the light under control (thanks to dear DH). This year my tomatos look awsome....but some of my peppers are sad and have (self diagnosed) damping off AND some gnats. Rats. I have a full time job and not enough time to take care of personal business! Will go home tonight to try to save peppers. Looks like every one (and me) could use some air and true sunlight!

Hmmm, Looks like it may have been light starved early on. I would hope that it is the camera causing the color problems, if not, then I think you have some serious burning going on. This could be from wind or sun if they were outside to long before being harden off.

At any rate, it may not be a successful plant because it has a very thin, crooked stem. The ideal tomato would be short and stocky and have a thick stem, in my opinion.

I have some plants that are showing some yellowing right now, but they have been growing outside during some heavy rains. I think it is time for a shot of fertilizer, but just hate to add anymore liquid right now until they can dry out some.

If I were going to try to save this plant, I would find a very tall and thin drink cup and put the plant in the bottom and cover with soil to the point that only the four top stems are above the soil. If it is strong enough to live, then it should make new roots along that stem.

Having said all that.....I am not an authority on tomato growing, but I don't think that one would survive in the garden in it's present condition. It's a tough old world out there in Oklahoma garden land.

OKAY... more details, and another picture.

These guys are much shorter... the first pic was of the first set of tomatoes I did. YES, they're way too thin and spindly... I was honestly hoping I could plant them really high on the stem to try to save them. These guys are much shorter, have gotten more real sun than the others did at that size. BUT still got the yellowing. Yes, THAT is the color, not just glare from the camera.

Details.
I planted the first batch in Sta Green potting MIX, which I got from Lowe's... cheapest brand... and I'm poor... LOL! The rest got Miracle Gro MIX. I think it was the moisture retaining stuff. WHICH helps lead me to believe too much water. I don't know how good my water is... that's something I should look into, but how? Four days ago they got a dose of "Alaska All Purpose Fish Fertilizer" (2-3-1). I put two ounces in a 2 quart container, and gave them each a bit.

MY LIGHTS ARE TOTALLY WRONG... I know this. Bare bulbs instead of fluroescent (sp?).

GNATS! THERE ARE GNATS! HA! That just hit me... I thought it was just a sign of spring getting into my house... LOL!

TEMPS... I TRY very hard to keep it around 70 in that spare bathroom... but have had problems with that. The heat in the room is space heater heat, and my husband has an awful habit of turning the heat up to HIGH and making it 80 and above. I keep a thermometer in there to keep an eye on the temps.

They're ALL outside today, getting a small dose of sun right now, and then back under my covered porch. I THINK I can probly keep them outside for the duration now, considering our temps at night will be over fifty.

Thoughts? Help??? :)

Beth

Good afternoon, Beth.

I came inside from my garden for lunch, and was happy to see your second photo and....aha! The words Miracle Grow told me all I need to know. B-I-N-G-O. Beth just said the magic word and now we can fix the problem.

First of all, I have nothing against Miracle Grow products. Even though I prefer gardening organically, I pot up my own tomatoes into regular MG Potting Soil when they go from their starter pellets to cups because they always do well in it and I don't have to spend a lot of time mixing up a potting mix for the cups. (I do make my own organic potting mix for my large permanent containers though.) However, there have been anecdotal reports from others here on GW this year, specifically on the TOMATO FORUM (imagine that), of problems with seedlings in the moisture retention and in the Organic Choice MG mix. There is clearly something wrong with at least some lots of these two MG products, although no one has mentioned similar problems with the regular MG Potting Soil.

I'll find and link Catman's discussion, and it seems Jay (Elkwc) who posts on that forum and here as well added the most intelligent thought to that whole discussion, and I think he is right. So, even though some folks have been happy with the Organic Choice and the Moisture Control MG versions, others have not been pleased with their results.

I believe Catman reported some improvement in his plants in a different thread after he got them out of the MG Organic Choice formula and into regular MG Potting Soil, so I suggest you do the same or risk losing your plants.

You already know bare bulbs are too weak and I'm guessing from the appearance of the plants that you have kept the plants some distance from the light. Remember that for good results the plants should be so close to the lights that they almost touch--and that is true from the moment the seeds sprout.

The temperatures in your bathroom should have been adequate if not optimal. The warmer the room the faster the plants grow and get leggy. Bright light and cooler temps (as long as the temps are over 50) give you shorter, stocky seedlings.

The gnats are a clear sign of too much moisture.

The Alaska fertilizer would help them under normal circumastances.

Your water's saltiness probably is NOT a factor now that I know you used the MG moisture retaining formula. I just think it holds too much moisture and too much fertilizer.

Now, I'm going to go find that link and attach it. Read it and see how Catman saved his plants. Read Jay's wise words.

If money is an issue and you cannot afford to buy another bag of MG Potting soil, AND you can keep the plants outside where it won't matter if they drain water everywhere, then take a sharp knife or pair of scissors and cut the whole bottom off each cup so you can have maximum drainage. Even that may not save the plants but, if you can't repot them into good potting soil, it may be your best option. Do not water them at all until the moisture retaining soil is totally dry.

Finally, wear gloves, wear gloves, wear gloves. Handling potting soil bare-handed is a huge no-no and that's especially true of the moisture retaining and the organic ones. Fungal diseases can lurk in any and all potting soils and they CAN and sometimes ARE transferred to human skin, so wear those gloves! If you manage to pick up a fungal disease from the potting soil, it is nasty, can become systemic in your body, and can take years (or never) to go away. So, wear gloves.

Like I said before, I have nothing against any of the MG products, but too many people have mentioned in too many threads last year and this year that they have had poor results with either the Organic Choice formulation or the Moisture Control formulation sold under the MG name, so it would be wise to repot into the regular MG Potting Soil. I cannot guarantee this will solve your problem, but think that it will. I bought the Organic Choice mixture the first year it was out and didn't like it. It had an odd smell. I went back to mixing up my own mix based on Al's Mix.

Dawn

Here is a link that might be useful: Previous MG Discussion & Catman's MG Experience

AH DAWN! Lord knows I love ya! And, GOSH DURN IT MG BRAND! LOL... That just ain't fair, ya know? :)

I think you know money is always an issue here, especially since I just ordered "Square Foot Gardening" and a book on canning today! GREAT TIMING! (my mom found a place for me to get both books for 15.00 shipping included! Used books, but I don't mind.) So, I read this earlier, and have been outside cutting the bottoms off my cups... My husband drove up and thought I had lost my mind... LOL! Letting them all get dry, I promise you that!

AND, I will be emailing the MG company and letting them know this happened, might even link that discussion for them. Luckily I saved my bag, huh?

THANK YOU DAWN! And DO NOT WORRY, I read that I should wear gloves when using potting mix, and I do! Cute ones with ladybugs all over them. :)

Beth

I agree with Dawn on the MG Organic. I used it (not for sprouting or seedlings) and experienced fairly significant plant loss. Plants just could not seem to survive in it after a month or so.

Hi Beth,

Sweetie, money is always a concern for everyone. : ) These days, too, it is more of an issue than it used to be. I try to offer less expensive options if I can think of one and I hope that cutting off the bottoms of the cups will let your plants drain well enough that they can survive in that soil. I think if you mail back the bag, they'll refund your purchase price.

How close is your frost-free, freeze-free safe day to "plant out"? I'd guess no earlier than May 1st? You're so much further north than I am. If you can keep them alive until you can get them into the ground, they probably will survive the horrid MG soil.

Hi Brian,

I had trouble with it too. I'm somewhat relieved to learn others have had trouble with Organic Choice, because I couldn't figure out what I was doing wrong. I've never bought it again since that one bad experience and never will.

Dawn

Here we go with that soil issue again. I normally just start my seedlings in Jiffy Mix (a soilless mixture) and make soil blocks. After I get germination I move the block to a cup but keep them in the light stuff.

This year when I wanted to wintersow, I was told to do that in a potting mix and I read that a lot of people had success with the MG product, but not the water retentive one. Because it was January and there was not much available I gave in and bought MG. Never again. The plants came up and they have done OK but it had about as much wood in it as it did mix. When it rained into the container the wood would float to the top. Sometimes I had to pick the wood chips off of the top of the container so that the plants could have a place to germinate on the top of the soil. On some containers all you could see were wood chips that had floated to the top. Since these containers were out in the winter months and germination was not expected until warmer days, I just kept picking off wood chips, but I am sure it interfered with germination. I was only planting flowers and not food crops, so I put up with it and used most of the two bags.

I wanted to buy ProMix to do my veggies in, but couldn't find a source at the time. (Thanks to seedmama, I have one now) I found a Berger product in Arkansas, and bought a bag of it. It was wonderful, but at a cost of $33.00 for 2.8 cubic feet, I doubt that I will contine using it. I expected to pay around $15, but not $33.

Sometimes I have used MG liquid fertilizer when my plants look like they need a quick fix, but that is rare, and I had never bought MG potting soil before.

My tomato and pepper transplants don't look great this year but that is due to weather and neglect, I think. I started them late, have had company, construction, and chaos almost continually. I took them inside under lights for a number of cold nights, but after a while, I just had them on a wagon which I pulled into an unheated shed. I had a real attitude this year....if they live, they deserve to.

In fact, I decided to wintersow a few and still have a bottle of Rutgers that came up outside in the cooler weather. I had to slide them inside a few nights, but haven't even taken them out of the bottle yet. Hopefully they will get transplanted tomorrow. Did I say I was behind. I have flowers that should have been planted a week (or more) ago, but with construction trailers, rebar, boards, concrete trucks, concrete forms, 3 workers, and every curious neighbor visiting my yard, they are safer in their tight little growing containers. In addition to the flowers, I have about ten shrubs to plant, plus a few veggies. It doesn't look like it will be a great garden year for me.

Carol,

I like to start mine in Jiffy Mix or in peat pellets, but I start multiple seeds in one pot or pellet, so I quickly pot them up to paper cups filled with MG Potting Soil as soon as they have true leaves. I could use my homemade potting mix, but I usually haven't mixed up a batch that early in the year and am usually so busy that MG is just easier. The quality of all their bagged soils is highly variable, but I have found their plain old Potting Soil works well for me most of the time, or at least it is better than the Moisture Control and Organic Choice ones. I haven't had a bad bag of their regular potting soil in three or four years now.

For what it is worth, the garden is late going in and getting later. I'm looking at our weather forecast and a cold night (44) just popped up for next week--previously that same night was supposed to be 50-something. Well, for me, 44 probably means 38 or worse, so everything I plant this week may have to be covered up that night. When does it end?

My tomato seedlings usually look darn near perfect. This year? Nowhere near perfect and probably the worst they've looked in 8 or 10 years. When all the fires were going on, I often left them outside too long (because I was, obviously, at a fire and wasn't home to move them inside) and they got sunburned and windburned. Some look really pathetic, others have a little damage, others have none.

My garden looks like I don't even want to get it planted although the weeds that are springing up look lovely, lush and green.

Everything I start to do leads me to something that must be done "now" which leads me to something else....and then I never get back to the original task.

Every time I try to plant, the wind increases and beats the tar out of the plants as I am planting. It's like there is a giant fan over the yard that comes on anytime I walk towards the garden with a flat of plants.

At least you have a legitimate project you're working on. My excuse is that I've been gone to fires a lot, but even when I am home, I am so unorganized and distracted this year. I can't explain it. Partly it is the weather, too. I've watched the potatoes and onions that were planted at the "recommended" time freeze repeatedly. I guess it is just one of those years.

For me, this is one of the worst springs ever in terms of being behind on the gardening tasks, and "the hurrier I go, the behinder I get".

Dawn

Dawn thanks for the compliment but just sharing my honest thoughts and observations.
I had really forgot some about that discussion. And I had already bought a bag of MG moisture control to use in potting up this year. I have potted up a dozen or less so far in it. Makes me wonder if I should progress after reading the results here. I like Pro Mix but our closest Home Depot where I always bought it didn't have any and wasn't sure they would get any. I could get a commercial mix at the local greenhouse but would be high. I may look around today and see what I can find. May buy some regular MG and do a little 50/50 planting and compare results. But like I've said before. Many times it comes down to your methods and what you are used too. Most growers who start seeds will tell you to never use garden soil. My mother who tended the family garden in the 30's when all the modern mixes weren't available and wouldn't have been affordable if they had been used garden soil and egg cartons the whole time she started seeds with excellent results. It was what she was used too and her methods works with it. The first year when I started back starting plants from seeds several years ago I used garden soil with greater than 85% germination rate. She never had lights either. Just turned the plants in the window sill then moved them to the screened in porch and in ln later years would set them in a partially open south facing garage door. This is just one reason I hate to see others say never do this. What works for me may not work for you. I always say if you have an idea check it on a few plants first before jumping in whole hog.

Southerngardenchick I hope your plants recover and do well for you. I guess the one observation I have is the first batch wasn't in the MG moisture control mix if I understand right. So the first plant wasn't in it right? If so I would tend to go with my first observation and that of Dawn and a few others that your lights are one factor. Like I said I hope things line out for you. Jay

Jay,

You're welcome. I just thought you made a point we all need to remember when we buy any bagged product--formulations can be variable and what "usually" works for us might not work at any given time because there is something wrong with that manufacturing lot or batch.

My experiece with the Moisture Control potting soil involved 5-gallon buckets with drainage holes punched in them and the plants did not do well at all. They either died or just barely stayed alive but really didn't grow. I have grown plants just fine in those buckets using regular MG Potting Soil or my organic version of Al's Mix.

I agree that what works for one of us might not work for another. My dad did things the way your mom did and they worked for him. However, as he got older and more bagged potting soils became available, he became a big fan of them. He didn't start much indoors though--just tomatoes---and direct sowed everything else except peppers, which he bought from a little Greek grocery store near us. I hadn't thought about that little Greek grocery in a decade, I bet, and thinking of them just now makes me feel really nostalgic. : ) The family that owned it were market growers and farmed on a couple of acres right alongside the Trinity River on the edge of downtown Ft. Worth. They always had the most gorgeous lush garden and sold their produce in their little store. They also sold transplants of all kinds--even heirlooms, although we didn't call them by that name in the 1960s and 1970s--just called them "old-fashioned varieties". My dad, the Greek grocery store, the river-side gardens, and probably the old Greek farmers too (they'd be at least in their 90s if still living) are all gone now, but I just had a fun walk down memory lane!

Dawn

Oh I'm so sure that the lights were a big part of the problem too. And the moisture control MG just wasn't a good product for me to use, since I did water too much. It says on the bag (No Overwatering), but leaving it soaking wet everytime didn't help a bit. The first batch of plants were started way too early with bad, bad lighting... so I'm learning what works and what doesn't, I guess! They made it thru the night outside, and are in a bit of sun right now. Keeping my fingers crossed! Thanks Dawn and Jay and Bryan... and everyone!

Beth

I am gonna be able to get my money back on that bag of mix. I KNOW it wasn't JUST that bag, but feel like it contributed to the problem enough to where I'm gonna get my money back! lol...

MG has a "No Quibble" guarantee. No quibble? How odd to put it that way... LOL!

Beth

Beth I thought about what I posted and hope you know I hope I never want to come across as I'm pointing fingers. I throw out my opinions as I have appreciated all the advice I've received in the past. Like I've stated before also remember what works in my area and semi arid conditions won't work for everyone else. The advice comes free and like I've told others treat it like spam if you feel it won't work for you. Hit the delete button.
Dawn yes we didn't even know then what antiques or heirlooms were. Only if I knew then what I know now. I remember the older gentleman who lived on the edge of town when we lived in NM. He raised a small truck type garden, saved seeds and sold seeds and plants along with produce. I wish I had some of his seeds now. My mother grew seeds that came from him. He had seeds for most common vegetables as I remember it. Squash, tomatoes, peppers( of course in NM getting chilie pepper seeds were easy.), cukes, ect.. I was always amazed at his garden. At the bottom of a sandhill and lots of manure had been added over the years. My mother was different than your Dad. When younger I went through a spell where I had to try every new idea that came along. Her opinion always was I grow as good a garden if not better now why change. She continued her methods when she moved to a bigger town her vegetable and flower gardens were featured in the local paper several times. The one thing I never went to even though coworkers and extension people tried to convince me to change was 100% man made fertilizer. Have used it when I needed a quick fix but have always stayed with my manure and hay mulches. I did pick up a bag of regular MG today. Looked for a bag of the Fertilome the local greenhouse lady has wanted me to try. Guess I may have to go get one from her. Think I will do some comparison plantings and take pictures. So may really bore everyone on this subject before I'm finished. I do feel there is a difference in batch mixes of most mixes. I have noticed it especially when I was transplanting 5-7 hundred plants every year. Pro Mix was the most consistent I have used. Too bad we can't find it here anymore. Jay

Jay,
This is my second year of having a garden, and my first year starting from seeds... point fingers all you want! I need the info. :)

Beth

Jay,

You are a valuable voice here and I, for one, would never quibble with you, not would I hit the "delete" button. Gardening in our climate is tough, and we all learn from one another despite the fact that some people (LOL--they know who they are!) get 60" of rain a year and others get 40" and others get 20" and, of course, rainfall is not all that differs. Throw in all the different kinds of soil we have here, and the wind, and the pests.....we all NEED each other to help us deal with the many challenges.

Is Pro-Mix no longer carried in your area? I tend to make my own container mix using an adaptation of Al's Mix using only organic materials, but I've never been able to find Pro-Mix here. I used to be able to get it in the Dallas-Fort Worth area, but understand it is harder to find there nowadays. Randy uses Metro-Mix which he finds somewhere in the OKC-Norman area but he also uses a Turface product to increase drainage as needed for his greenhouse plants. I do see the Turface products in Calloway's nurseries in Texas now, and I'd never seen them in any nursery until a couple of years after Randy mentioned them.

I'm a huge advocate of manure, compost and hay/grass clippings/straw mulches. Just yesterday, I spent almost the entire day shoveling compost from my pathways between the raised beds up into the beds themselves. The compost had been a combination of hardwood tree trimmings, hay and grass clippings that had finally decomposed in the pathways. I raked back the top layer of still-intact mulch, and shoveled the compost up into the adjacent raised beds. Next week I'll put new mulch in the pathways, and next year I'll have new compost in the paths to shovel up into the beds again. It beats hauling compost from a more remote pile to the veggie garden--but I still do that too.

I mulch every bed heavily and add mulch almost weekly during the growing season. Nothing has improved my beds more. You know, it was a revelation to me to learn I didn't have to double-dig beds and continually rototill amendments into the ground. All you really have to do is layer on the mulch and nature takes care of the rest. I read one of Ruth Stout's books years ago and I remember thinking that what worked for her there in her part of the county probably wouldn't work here. I was wrong. : )

I look forward to hearing the results of your research and seeing your photos.

I think Randy may be experiementing with Actinovate this year? We've been watching Raybo's updates and photos on Actinovate on the Tomato Forum.

Beth,

Sometimes newer gardeners have a hard time saying "I am new at this and I need help", and I can understand that, I think. You, however, have a refreshing "Help me, I'm new" attitude and you are soaking up new ideas and advice like a sponge. That's a terrific thing. You know, of course, that by the end of this year, you won't be a "new" gardener, but an "intermediate" one. Isn't that amazing to think about? Next year you'll be one of the experienced seed-starters who can say "this worked, that didn't". Nothing teaches like experience itself.

For your last freeze date, I think it is around the end of April, but you might want to wait another 1-2 weeks to be sure a late night or two isn't lurking, unless you can protect the in-the-ground plantings from late frosts.

Dawn

Got home picked my second batch of asparagus and had it for my dinner. Hard to beat with a little real butter melted over it.
My old silver maple and apple tree have started leafing out so that is a good sign spring might be here. They have been my most predictable indicators the last few years. Next week looks like a warm up. Will watch to see what following week holds. Yesterday was our last average frost date but the last 3 years have been way later.
Beth,
The things I encourage a new gardener to do is not overdue it and enjoy it. I was guilty at one time of almost taking the enjoyment out of it. There is lots of great information and advice on the internet. Just don't let it get too intimidating or be scared off by a rare few that try to impose their will and ways on everyone. I'm a sr. technician at work and part of my job it too train the new employees. If I do a good job and the other trainers do also I feel they should be better than me. And I've found sometimes too much information at once can have the opposite effect of the one that is desired. Look forward to watching your progress this year. Jay

Thanks ya'll... I sure do appreciate talking to you guys! Yep, I ain't never been afraid to ask for help... I did get slightly embarassed, posting about this. I SINCERELY wanted to do well with these seeds that Dawn sent me! LOL...

But I realize it's all a learning experience.

Jay,
I've got a notebook that I keep beside my computer, writing down whatever I feel might be even slightly important. Too much information? Haven't hit that block yet! LOL....

Dawn,
I STILL feel like I'll be in beginer gardener status... LOL! I can tell that this "hobby" takes LOTS of time to get good at it. Yesterday we went up to Orchelin's and checked out what tomatoes they had... just in case we need them... LOL! All I'm hoping for is to be able to get the seedlings big enough to produce ONE TOMATO per plant so I can save the seeds and redo it all next year. Here's hoping!

The RAINS are back to my area, and cooler temps. I watch the weather a whole lot more now! I'll try to wait a week after May 1. Everyday it's WARM makes me just itch to plant some stuff tho. When this bout of rain is over, I'm gonna work on transforming my ugly cactus bed into something alot prettier. That'll help me pass the time! Zinnias and Cosmos... :)

Beth

Beth,
Gardening is just like my Dad a respected horse trainer and cowboy always said. " I learn something everyday and when I quit learning I'd better find something else to do. Applies to my job and gardening. I believe in having an open mind. Have just learned not to jump in to my neck first. Start off by wading in slowly. And just when you think you have things figured out Mother nature or something else will throw you a curve. Saw another post this morning on another forum with a person having troubles with seedlings in Miracle Grow potting mix. I think theirs was temp related but could be wrong. Stems and leaves turning purple since she planted out. Usually cool temps or a sudden change in temps. Moving from a warm room to the outside even if the 50's can cause that. The ones I potted in the MG moisture control still looking good. If they start to looking bad will either repot or move to the garden in buckets if the warm up starts next week. The one thing I'm having troubles with is Cowpots. An example where I thought they had to be so good I bought a case last year is instead of a few to try. And by the end of the summer decided they weren't that great for my methods. The sides wick moisture from the roots bad and kill the roots if you don't really keep them wet. I did use them for my direct sown last year and they seemed to work well in the soil. Have done a few that way this year then put seeds in a couple and due to the blizzard didn't get them out and they came up inside after completely drying out twice. I have since tried to keep them wet but a constant challenge. I think if you bottom water they might be fine. I know many do that. The only seedlings to speak of I have ever lost to damping off was when I tried bottom watering. So mainly water like my Mother taught me. From above. She used the same bottle she had poked holes in with a ice pick to sprinkle clothes as she ironed them. I found a jug at Wal Mart a few years ago that let water out slow and works well. As I pot up I find the soil moist but not soaked and the roots healthy. So probably a case of my method not working with how they work best.
Always remember the only bad question is the one you don't ask. Never hesitate to ask. And if someone tries to belittle you don't pay any attention. Like I stated I have seen newbies get discouraged when they get belittled. And I try my best to answer in a appropriate way. But then at times like my sister says my choice of words are not the best. I can be too blunt and not realize it. Jay

Beth,

I hope you're never embarassed about asking a question or posting a photo and saying "what is this?". In the gardening world, you can garden for a hundred years, and still encounter new problems, pests, diseases, etc. that you've never seen before. Just about the time you think you "have it all figured out", new viruses, wilts, etc. appear leaving you (and everyone around you) to wonder "what in the world is this?".

I gardened for about 20 or 25 years before I had a problem with stink bugs, so I never understood what a royal pain-in-the-neck they were until they showed up on my tomato plants just a couple of years ago. The same thing happened with corn smut. I'd heard about it forever, but never saw it on my own corn until the early 2000s and then I looked at it and thought "Oh, so this must be corn smut." It is always something, and lots of years it is something "new" that you have to research and figure out. It keeps life from being boring.

Ask Jay.....just when we think we have figured out all the tomato diseases, new ones like Spotted Wilt or Tomato Yellow Leaf Curl show up and we say "what in the world is this?".

Unfortunately there are always a few people on various forums who are looking to belittle others and I just ignore them. Or, there are people who are always looking for a fight, and I just ignore them too. Or, there are people who post threads that are nothing more than advertisements for some garden-related business they have (which violates Garden Web rules) and I ignore them too. Ninety-nine percent of the time everyone here on Garden Web (and especially on the OK Forum) is wonderful, but about 1% of the time, the opposite is true.

And, truthfully, gardening can be simple or gardening can be complicated. Complicated sometimes works better than simple, but not always. And, even though we talk about the "recommended dates" for planting, sometimes you can get a great harvest even if you plant much earlier or much later. Very little in the "gardening rules" is engraved in stone. Sometimes you have to improvise. Sometimes improvising works. Sometimes it doesn't. It is all good though, because we learn from our successes and our failures--and we learn from each other.

To me, writing and talking about gardening is almost as much fun as actually doing it.

Dawn

Dawn,
Yes when I first started going to forums around 3 years ago I stated I had no disease problems. Should never of said that. Oh the last two years have changed that. And has made me do some researching and asking questions. Some like the TSWV I had two years ago you never know for sure. Most of the plants I lost to it were next to my onion rows. Many feel that contributed to it as they are a host for thrips. Will never plant them right next to them again. Planning on starting another place for onions away from the main garden but haven't yet. Also planting sunflowers around the garden this year. Many say they will attract the insects and be the sacrificial lamb so to speak. I had what I felt was TYLC last year but never got it confirmed. Last year was a year the diseases were bad for most. So not a good year to base anything off of. The stress of the wind, heat and drought weakened the plants and made them more susceptible. Then my cowpot experiment hurt the roots more than I realized till I pulled the plants last fall. Also I have noticed an increase since I have been starting so many seeds from so many sources. Maybe a coincidence. But decided to follow the advice of a few researchers and one extension service and soak all tomato seeds in a weakened clorox solution for 2 minutes before planting. I do all mine when I save them. Takes a little longer but worth it if it helps. Have a friend who frequents other forums and he has had a trouble this year in one tray with a disease. And he is going to try this next year. His tray of his seeds had no problem but the tray with seeds from other sources he lost most of I think. At the least i can say I tried.
I'm like you and I just ignore those who try to flame and if I can't I leave. I haven't been back to two forums for over a month because of one lady. And just posted on a third yesterday for the first time in a month. There are too many forums available to have an internet war. Like I've told other after the loss of my boy I learned what is really important and what really don't matter in the big scheme of life. I've found the smaller and localized forums like this one and the Rocky Mountain and a couple of others I go to are the friendliest.
Whatever method a person uses gardening unless doing it as a business I remind them to keep it fun. If something takes the fun out of it I stop and rethink it. With mother nature there are no set dates that are givens. Like farming there is a gamble every year. One year you plant early and you look like Einstein the next they give you the dunce cap. Gardening and farming will keep you humble. Jay

The RAIN has STOPPED... and it looks like we're warming up too. THANK GOODNESS! I am so ready to get stuff out there. I'm FEELING that we're gonna be okay on some stuff. I've got pea seedlings that need to go in the ground and am THINKING of getting one broccoli and one cauliflower plant to see how they grow and what I could do with them.

This is a learning experience, I realize that... but it's one I'm loving so much. Yes, I did get discouraged when I saw the yellow leaves on those tomato plants... but it's not enough to stop me! THAT was a case of me jumping in too quickly and getting over my head. I should have just done a little bit, to see how it all worked.

Lesson learned!

I have daydreamed about my entire yard full of plants, producing everything under the sun. BUT, I realize this is going to take some time to get to that point. I am SO appreciative to the help that you guys are giving me. I've been a message board freak for three years now... LOL! Started out on a parenting site, and am still a member over there. I've found that people are on the whole NICE. There are some out there looking for a fight, but they don't scare me really. AND, most people who love to garden LOVE to share their experiences and advice. My growing experiences might not be like everyone else's... but it's good to hear the basics from people who know!

That's why I love this forum! Even tho I'm not in Oklahoma... LOL!

Ya'll take care and HAPPY GARDENING!!!

Beth

Hi Jay,

Oh, I agree, farming and gardening will keep a person humble.

To me, the worst thing is the world is when someone looks at the garden (usually in late May to mid June) and tells me it looks "perfect". A comment like that is pretty much a jinx because, as soon as those words leave someone's mouth, the garden promptly nose dives from "perfect" to "perfectly awful", "perfectly diseased", or "perfectly deer-eaten".

I've learned to choose my words carefully too. Once, someone asked me what I did for "red plant lice" (which apparently is a local term for red aphids) and I blithely assured them I never had them in my garden. Of course, the next week I noticed pink (not red!) aphids in the garden, although of course, the lady bugs soon made quick work of them.

I'm sorry. I didn't know you'd lost a child. I can understand how that changes your perspective. I've never suffered that kind of loss, but was diagnosed with cancer in 1999 and it had a similar effect on me. I learned not to sweat the small stuff and that 99.9% of what we worry about is "small stuff". In 1999, I never thought I'd still be here in 2009, but here I am, and grateful for every day I have had on this earth since then. I know that many people survive cancer, yet many others do not, and since that time, I often tell myself I am the "luckiest girl in the world" because I survived the Big C.

I had assumed that, in your growing conditions there, you might have issues with TYLC or TSWV. I've always had onions near my tomatoes and they are in adjacent rows now. I hate to say the words, but I've never had onion thrips (I bet I just jinxed myself with those words). I guess maybe I'll be smarter next year and plant them further apart.

The stink bugs have plagued me the last two years. I am growing sunflowers and millet near the garden as a trap crop. We'll see if it works. If you have any other stink bug ideas, I'm open to suggestion.

Except for Early Blight (which I manage pretty well most years), I don't have much trouble with the plants (uh oh, jinxing myself by saying that) although I have had southern blight once or twice, and my soil has cotton root rot in it, dating back to its days as a cotton farm, so I have to be careful when attempting to grow any of the thousands of plants susceptible to it. I had a lot of cotton root rot issues the first few years, but they seem to have settled down. Still, it plays a role in plant selection.

I will have to keep the chlorox idea in mind. I've thought about doing it, but haven't done it yet.

After last year's sudden transition from a freeze on May 4th here to temps in the 90s and heat-blast-furnace winds just a few days later, I think we're due a "quiet and calm" year here, but don't think we're going to get one.

I always try to encourage veggie gardeners, espeically new ones, to follow the OSU recommended planting dates and, yet, I haven't even followed them myself this year. At this point with all the erratic weather we've had, I just kind of want to throw the recommended planting dates out the window and say "plant whenever you dare".

This week I am going to plant pretty much everything, right, wrong or indifferent. I'm at the point, nervously eyeing the summer calendar and the onset of the heat, and thinking that for our garden, it is "now or never".

I agree that gardening should be fun or it isn't worth it. I am pretty ruthless about planting low maintenance plants. None of my shrubs are pruned into unnatural shapes, for example, and I just let them grow to the shape and size God intended. I don't worry about weeds in the lawn--a diverse lawn is healthier and supports an ecosystem while a sterile monoculture does not. I won't plant apples because of cedar apple rust (we have billions of cedar trees in our part of the state) or pears because of fire blight. I let everything be pretty loose and informal and natural. If I am not having fun, I am not going to spend time in the lawn or garden.

At first, I was the "odd" one here in our part of the county because I planted like a gardener, in raised beds with tight spacing and mulch and organic techniques, and most everyone else plants like farmers (using tractors, more narrow rows widely spaced, lots of chemicals, no companion plants etc.). It took the "old farmers" a few years to realize they weren't going to change me, and it took only a couple more years for them to start asking me about organic techniques, so I am not such an oddball any more....and I still have fun too!

Dawn