Okay, I'm going to take the risk and offend everybody here on the forum. I've lived in New York City and there is a certain tension there, the gotta-be-there, gotta-do-the-deal, gotta-get-there-as-fast-as-possible. Checking out at the grocery store becomes a speed-fest of sorts. It's a matter of pride on how well one flashes the transfer to the driver or knowing the destinations of fellow travelers in an elevator, and then playing the buttons of the elevator like a harpsichord so everyone's floor is ticked off. Maximum efficiency, maximum benefit.

It's the same in LA, everyone jockey's for position, it's a matter of knowing the in's and out's of rush hour and when to dodge and dart. The savvy commuter knows the exits and side roads and which streets lights are timed and which are not.

We don't do these things in Oklahoma. We do, however, compete to have the first tomato--even though we have a gloriously wonderfully long summer that is long enough to probably grow two crops of tomatoes from seed! We plant tomatoes in little cups and rush them out--risking frost and snow. Yet, the truth is, we could plant them as seeds in early April and we would get plenty of tomatoes by August and September. Maybe even July!

So, the truth of the matter is that as a nation we are very hyper people. We love to push the envelope and let's do it now!

It is also true that if you want, you can relax a bit and plant tomatoes from seed and you will do just fine. You might be a little later, you might have to water just an extra bit much to make up for the August heat...but you will get tomatoes. Remember, our Great-Great-Grandparents didn't have growing lights or (at least mine, over in Shawnee, Oklahoma) any heat other than a wood burning stove. Everything was planted from seed, everything was planted in-situ.

So, I'll probably be burned at the stake for suggesting this, but just get some Burpee Brandy Boy seeds from Burpee or the local big-box and plant them. You might be surprised.

I shall now duck underneath my desk and enter the thermonuclear attack position in preparation for disagreement here....

Just an opinion....

--Robert

Wellll that was a warm welcome, guess I should of just kept lurking.

There one in every crowd.

crm2431, I would check with macmex aka George. He lives near you and may know who all grows different varieties around there.

Sorry, Charlie.

I definitely did not mean that to be negative in any way, shape, or form. In fact, I meant it to be positive in every respect and I am puzzled by how I caused offense. I apologize.

My bottom line was this: there is no cut-off date, and the cultivars do not need to be purchased from a nursery. You can grow them from seed. Burpee is now delivering plants (I get the e-mails). If you want to bypass the seeds, by all means order from Burpee. They are currently delivering on plants. Their address is below.

My apologies if I offended, and enjoy your visit with your grandchildren.

Here is a link that might be useful: www.burpee.com

Charlie,

I hope you won't go back to lurking. I think you'll find you'll get reasonably helpful answers from most folks here.

Now, about Brandy Boy.....if I hadn't planted all my seed, I'd be happy to send you some. I'm in southcentral OK and shop in both south-central OK and north-central Texas and have never seen Brandy Boy plants in any nursery, garden center, feed and seed store or farmer's market. I believe that Burpee keeps the seeds priced so high that most retailers won't buy the seed and grow it out to sell as plants because they'd have to price it higher than their other plants for which the bulk seed is more reasonably priced. I've heard very small growers who sell at farmer's markets say they don't grow Brandy Boy for that reason, or they only grow a very few, and none of those small growers are located in Oklahoma.

I'm sure if anyone here has seen Brandy Boy plants in OKC or anywhere in central or northeastern OK, they'll let you know. I don't even think Scott has found Brandy Boy available as plants here, and he seems to have nurseries near him which offer an amazing array of tomato varieties.

The recommended planting dates for spring tomatoes are April 10-30 and that is for a reason.

Tomato plants have to reach a certain size and form blooms before the daytime high temps begin regularly exceeding 95 degrees and the nighttime lows begin regularly exceeding 72 degrees. Once the temps are that high, which is often about the 3rd week in June at my house, pollination and fertilization can be impeded and production slows down. On some varieties fruitset completely stops during this period and on others it only slows down. This heat-related slow-down in production tends to affect larger tomatoes more, so sometimes you still get good fruitset on tomatoes that produce tomatoes that are 8-10 oz or smaller but generally not on the plants that produce tomatoes that are much larger than that. The heat-related pollination issues don't affect cherry, grape, small pear (like Yellow Pear) or currant type tomatoes at all. Also, humidity plays some sort of role in the pollination/fertilization issues because in a drought year when humidity runs consistently low, I don't see as much of a pollination problem. Every variety is affected differently too, so some slow down more in the heat than others.

Getting the maximum fruitset possible before the real heat arrives is the reason to plant between April 10-30, not some silly contest to have the first tomato. One good thing about Oklahoma is that we sometimes have little 'cold fronts' come through in summer that drop the temps down into the right range for better pollination/fertilization to occur, so in years like that, we'll get additional fruitset during those little cool spells.

The recommended planting date for fall tomatoes is July 1-15. Plants transplanted then will be ready to bloom in August and you'll get fruitset whenever the temps are in the right range. So, we do have a dual season here, and if you can't find plants locally, and if Burpee hasn't sold out of the seed, you do have time to order seed and grown your own. In fact, Burpee also sells plants of Burpee Boy, as does The Cook's Garden, although I haven't checked their websites to see if they've sold out.

I am sure some people are as Spademillane mentioned and view raising tomatoes as a competitive sport. I just like growing them because I like eating them.

Good luck finding Brandy Boy, and I hope you'll post again and not return to lurking. This really is a friendly group of gardeners.

Dawn

Charlie,
Welcome to the forum and hope you continue to post. I didn't post earlier as I live a long ways from you. So the places I know wouldn't be of any use to you.Wish I could help. I'm sure someone from your area will post soon and be able to help you. I know there are several not too far from you. It is a good tomato and one hybrid I grow most years. Wish you well in your hunt for some. Jay

Robert,
You make some good points. But there are many reasons that many "push" the envelope. And that is with all garden veggies and not just tomatoes. I know my Mother who recently went to the great garden above was raised in the 30's and during the depression. I know she started plants in egg carton on the fridge and then moved them into the window sills for light. And out to a protected porch before finally being transplanted. It was the only way they could get a good harvest so they would have something to eat during the winter here in KS. When I was young and we lived further south. She would start early tomatoes inside and then the fall crop she planted direct. Many have problems just keeping plants alive let alone producing during the hot days of summer. And many are like me. Trying to raise all I can to eat instead of buying the store bought produce. In many cases this means we have to push the early limits some. If a person wants to plant direct that is their choice. But for those of us who wish to plants earlier and push some limits and know we run the risk of a late frost we have the same right to make that choice. I hope you will come back and update us on how all of your direct sown plants do this summer. JD

No problem everyone, I appreciate all the info on here and respect everyone's opinion. I just wasn't in the mood to start more seed right now, lol, But thanks to everyone.

Charlie

I've interacted with Robert face to face several times over the last year, and even got to visit with his parents a couple of times, so I'm going to chime in here. I've sized him up to be very intelligent with a sharp sense of observation and a particularly dry sense of humor. He has never uttered an unkind word, and I do believe him that he meant no offense of any kind. I don't think his observational comments were directed personally toward charlie. That said, his observations got tangled up with a well intentioned attempt to say you don't have to be bullied into rushing if you don't want to. It's okay to take it easy. I must confess, however as I was reading I was thinking, "Robert, where are you going with this? This doesn't sound like a very warm welcome." So again I want to vouch for Robert in belief that there was no affront intended. I've not witnessed it to be his style to offend, and hope you will accept his apology.

Now I'm going to agree with Dawn and Jay on the reason why we rush to get tomatoes in the ground. For three years I used the Winter Sowing method to start tomatoes. They were absolutely the prettiest, stockiest, most healthy looking plants I'd ever seen. They also were just about old enough to produce right as the heat set in. I had beautiful, dormant plants throughout the middle of summer, producing virtually nothing. Once it cooled down a bit production kicked in, but in the meantime I'd missed out on a lot of production time before it got hot. So it isn't just about the first tomato, it's about total production. Because I garden to feed my family, and not just for some seasonal fresh produce, this is important to me.

Welcome Charlie! Please stick around and chime in often!

Seedmama

Charlie,

If I'm not mistaken, I believe Carmichaels Produce in Bixby has Brandy Boy plants. I believe that's what Scott had mentioned in another thread - see below almost at the end. Hopefully he'll see this and confirm. I'm going there sometime this week and will let you know for sure or you could probably call them. I lurk way more than I post but I encourage you to hang around it's a wonderful place full of helpful information.

Jill

Here is a link that might be useful: Spring must be here - tomato transplants are out!

Jill,

Oh, I'm glad you remembered that. All I remembered was an earlier thread where Scott was talking about Brandy Boy seed....or maybe that was last year. I think all the years are starting to run together.

Dawn

Charlie,

Carmichaels in Bixby has the plants now. When I talked to him in February I told him that I had ordered seeds for that and 4th of July (thank you, Dawn) since I could not find them anywhere locally. He said he has always liked to carry 4th of July but Burpee doesn't have price breaks for large seed purchases for folks like him so it doesn't make sense for him financially.

Wouldn't you know it, when I stopped in 2 weeks later he was carrying seeds for Brandy Boy and 4th of July out to the greenhouse to have them planted. Great timing! You may have to ask the folks there where they are if you can't find them because they are not as far along as the other seelings they sell.

Also, Charlie, an alternative would be to meet me and I can give you one of mine that I will have extra. I started about a dozen and will only put 8 or 10 in the ground. I am about 15 minutes from Bixby and you can e-mail me for directions. I can leave one at the end of the drive any time.

Thanks to Jill and Scott, I will be in Tulsa also this week and drop down to Bixby. Scott I will let you know my schudule when I know it myself, Thanks

Charlie

Oops. We were all posting at about the same time.

Charlie - the Lowes in Midwest City has them in plant.

Amen Spademillane! We do rush too much don't we? Get in a hurry. I had a similar conversation with a lady a work with a while back, we were discussing all the new fertilizers, and how to time things. She was telling me about her father a long time gardener and farmer who used the phases of the moon to plant. I tend to closely follow soil temperatures, but I doubt her father ever did.

Ezzirah,

Sure we rush, but that's to 'beat the heat. Planting in April always gives me many more tomatoes and much earlier ones than planting later, and that is especially true in a drier than average and hotter than average summer. In a cooler and wetter year, planting early isn't as important, but in very hot, dry years like 2003, 2005 and 2006, early planting was the difference in having a great harvest versus a poor one. If only we could know in March or April or May just what weather we'd be getting in June, July and August!

Dawn

Oh no doubt about that! I messed up timing my leeks and now I think they bit the dust, waited too long getting them in the ground and they lay there like they are wilted, no matter how much I babied them so far...so yes, I am a firm believer in time tables as guidelines....

I don't ever remember a year like this one where I have planted cool season crops one week, and started planting summer crops the next. LOL

Robert, I have lived a lot of places also and when I read your post, I didn't see anything that upset me. I have visited the 'rude' places of the world, and Okies are not normally like that. We are just much more laid-back and less intense than in a lot of places I have been....unless your talking football or politics. LOL

Actually, I don't even remember how my mother got her tomato plants when I was a child growing up in southern Oklahoma, but I would imagine that they were bought on the sidewalk in front of the feed store. I can remember that spring time always meant that you would see those wooden crates of onions, and containers of transplants sitting at an angle so you could see into the box when you drove down the street. Later in life, I remember that they went to a store that was in a part of the next town (Ardmore) that we never went to for any other reason, but at gardening time you had to go get the bulk seeds and some plants from that store.

Our climate in the NE part of the state does not get really hot so fast most years, but does get hot. I know several people who try to get their first ripe regular size tomato by the 4th of July, and others who don't put them in the ground until May. One year a man told my DH that it was time to put the tomatoes in the garden, and we had already had 3 ripe ones that week. I had a few in WOW's and we had the first ones on the 3rd of June, but I got lucky that year.

Our lowest temp this month has been 34 which is also the lowest recorded temp for the stations that I looked at in the southernmost parts of Oklahoma. Sometimes they get storms that never hit us. You would think from our northern location that we would be cold much later in the spring, and much earlier in the winter, but it doesn't always happen that way. We do normally have a lot more rain tho.

I met Melissa at Braum's parking lot yesterday, and I ran in and bought breakfast while I was waiting for her. As soon as I walked in, I heard a man say, "Got you garden in yet?". I thought he was talking to me, but he was talking to the man behind me. Later the conversation will begin with, "How's your garden doing?", then "Had any tomatoes yet?" It sure becomes the topic of conversation for the old timers around here. (of course, I'm not one of the 'old timers'). LOL

Okay, stopped in at Carmichaels today in Bixby. Yes they have Brandy Boy plants. I assume they would be the 99 cent 3 packs. I didn't have time to look for them so I just ask Don Carmichael since he was standing right by the door I arrived and one of the workers standing beside him said "as a matter of fact we do."

Carmichaels is another one of my favorite places to buy plants and seed in the spring. You get great plants and bargain prices. He grows and sells what does well here. You can trust his knowledge since he's growing produce to sell, not just selling plants. He has mostly hybrid and some heirloom tomatoes - lots of pepper varieties and other vegetable transplants. You can bet whatever varieties he sells are tasty.

Jill

Jill,

You can indirectly thank Dawn since she convinced me to grow it and I told Don how much people (from this board) liked it. At .99 for a 3-pack he is not making any money on them most likely.

Carmichaels grew about 80 tomato and pepper varieties this year and I have the entire list if anyone is looking for a specific variety. Unfortunately he discontinued my best producer from last year, which is Amelia, because it didn't produce enough foliage to cover the fruit on his plants.