Hi Fevzi,

I have to say I'm both intrigued and puzzled. It seems that you registered today, presumably so that you could track down P. parritae--not an easy task--even on Ebay.

Your Gardenweb member's page says that you have a restaurant in NJ, above it says zone 9. It says you bloomed your titanum in your restaurant(?). Isn't the smell a bit intense?

The thing about Ebay is that one can buy things, no questions asked. At a place like this people might have their own criteria for whom they would give a plant to. And of course one would assume they give, or trade, or sell at cost to, at least if they followed the guidelines here.

So let's say, hypothetically, that I was at Strybing today. I presumably saw the P. parritae, which in theory is in bloom. Today's the monthly sale, and while they never have P. parritae at the monthly sale this year, let's say that they hypothetically have quite a few. I pick up a couple, thinking that I would give one to a friend. Half an hour later, crowds are sparse and they still have some, so I'm greedy and I hypothetically pick up a third.

So I hypothetically buy three plants that one might imagine would look like the ones below:

First off those hypothetical plants are smaller than they look--those are 1/2 gallon pots. So they are definitely not "good size"

So let's just imagine I bought those plants today. I feel bad about taking so many. So it's really important to me to find good homes for them. Do you have the conditions in which to grow P.parritae? You say you collect rare Passifloras--which cool growers do you already have?

Now if I were to hypothetically have three such plants and one of my friends didn't want one, I might look around. How would I decide where to send it? Most importantly I would find out if their climate matched. If someone had an innapropritate climate I would likely look elsewhere.

So what would motivate me to give you one of my hypothetical plants?

Hi Mark4321,
thanks for responding to my message about p. parritea.
1) My A. TITANUMS are in NJ at my restaurant in town of Summit. Restaurant basement is ideal for storage of tubers. I bought already mature tubers, all there tubers bloomed. yes, smelled bad, we turned the fans on, one cutomer complained too, was on ABC live show(GMA)
2) I live in Jacksonville, FL ( moved here last year). Even jacksonville can be too hot for parritea, if exposed to sun directly over small seedlings ( I had very tiny seedling, lost last year, needs shade)
3) I have several smal, but good size, Parritea x ( PxAnto. ?, PxExon,)and others(dont remember the names)
Anyway, thanks again taking time to respond
take care
Zeren

Zeren,

You had a seedling of P. parritae? I know someone who I'm pretty sure would trade several P. parritae plants for a seedling. He also told me yesterday that he thinks San Diego is too warm for P. parritae. I assume this is due to the warm summer nights--I think about 65 degrees, days about 75 F. I think most people would consider him one of the world's experts on P. parritae.

I find the fact that you are growing P.parritae x antioquiensis (or possibly the reverse) and P. exoniensis x parritae (only possibility since exo pollen is sterile) to be very interesting. I know a number of people who live in Florida and other hot climates who are interested in growing these plants, so any report of success interests me. I get deformed leaves if there is a heatwave and temps go over 90 F (we are typically 80 F in the summer). Do you see that? How much sun do you grow your plants in?

For what it's worth, here's my experience with P. parritea:

First off, I live in NW Florida and our daytime temps have been in the 90s and nightime temps in the 70s.

I obtained an almost-rooted cutting from a friend, who sent it via two-day delivery. It arrived in fantastic shape, and continued to root and eventually to grow. It was quite small, but in lovely condition when I received it. It grew to about a foot tall with roots coming out the bottom of the styrofoam glass. I gave it 100% humidity, as instructed by my friend. I had been warned that it probably wouldn't do well, and it didn't - in fact, it died. We cannot grow this sensitive Passiflora plant here in Florida, in my humble experience.

I have a climate-controlled greenhouse and it still died, so I have my doubts that you can grow it in your area of Florida, either. California is considerably less humid than here in Florida. Heed Mark's opinion - he knows his stuff!!!!

Hi Mark & Kayjones
Subject : growing Parritae in Hot/Humid Climate including Jacksonville , FL
Here is my observation:
In general, the humidity by itself should be Ok, probably helps, however when you exposed seedlings directly to sun in a very humid area, it is like putting a seedling into a hot oven,
1) The water (amount of humidity in the saturated air) has 1000 folds more heat holding/absorbtion capacity than the dry air.
2) If you keep the most of the seedlings ( regardless of the plant) in a shade ( or very filtered sun), and let the seedling find its way slowly toward to the sun, is OK. another word, the let the seedling take its own way.
3) After the seedlings (pot is mainly in a shade area, but has the chance to wonder into sunny area)get adjusted, it develops shinny coatings over the leafs to reflect the direct sun lights (i.e., flux). I seen this on my many plants (after maturing) developing shiny leafe surface which reflect the sun rays. So, all dependent on how you observe your plant response to enviromental conditions. Yes, by forcing, we are changing their behaviour, providing that, the transion period is handled properly. just putting in a sunny spot of a seedling can be detremantal.
Thanks
Zeren

Zeren,

Are you saying you had P. parritae seedlings?

Are you looking for a P. parritae to grow outdoors in Jacksonville, Fl.?

Do you grow other highland plants? P. parritae is from 2400-2800 m or 7900-9200 ft. (In comparison the highest point East of the Rockies is Mt. Washington, NH at 6288 ft.). There are a lot of great plants (with great names) from 2000-3000 m, such as Dracula vampira and Brugmansia vulcanicola.

You argue (I think) that the heat capacity of water is three orders of magnitude greater than dry air. Surely the heat capacity of gaseous water is not that different from gaseous nitrogen, oxygen and carbon dioxide? So is that supposed to be the difference compared to liquid water? Checked--the difference is about 4-fold, not 1000-fold, even for liquid water. Regardless, the heat capacity of liquid water is irrelevant, since humid air is a mix of gasses. Presumably your argument is that humid air (air plus gaseous, not liquid water) has a higher heat capacity than dry air. Exactly what is the difference and is it enough to have a real impact on the plants? Since you add a Ph.D. following your name many people will simply assume that this and other assertions are true. I would naively assume that effect of humidity on water loss and evaporative cooling could be substantial. I'm not sold on heat capacity. I would agree that high humidity is probably not an issue--these plants are from areas that can be very cloudy, rainy and foggy. They are happy in the U.S. in SF, which is known for its humidity. However, along with heat and humidity comes warm nights, which plants from the mountains are not big fans of.

I agree plants can adapt to higher amounts of sun to some degree. However more sun will directly heat up leaves--a problem if it's already hot. I live near San Francisco and a lot of plants that live there in full sun only survive here with afternoon shade. There's nothing that can be done to adapt them--planting them during our rainy winter when our climate is very similar to SF's would be one possibility. It doesn't work. I have seen changes in leaves that are exposed to the sun--color changes, they can become thicker, etc. I'm not familiar with them getting shinier to reflect the light. If this is some general phenomenon no doubt a scientific article or two or dozens could be pulled up in a couple minutes describing the effect. Again, since you sign your name with a Ph.D. you suggest to people that they should believe what sound like scientific assertions. I'm asking you to back them up.

I'm going to chime in with my experience growing tasconias, including parritae crosses. I'm in zone 7a and have to grow under glass. I failed consistently with tasconias until I made one of my greenhouses a "cool" house and even then when I allowed the the temps hit the mid 80's they would suffer some. There's no direct sun in that greenhouse and an exaust fan, circulation fan and a mister were constantly running during the summer. Fans were kept running at night but not the mister. I don't think high humidity is an issue but temps and low air circulation are. They do best when the greenhouse is kept in the 70's during the day and 50's at night. This is what I've found works for me and I can't speak for those in other areas.

Mark,

You are right , water specific heat is about 4 times than air (not 1000),. I tought water has huge Cp, I wanted say it is big, gave that 1000 fold without lookingf at the real valu. , but noting has to do ph.D stuff
Thanks correcting me, appreciated

Why not buy from Ebay sellers? I've had some bad experiences with seeds but the plants I have bought are still alive. Some being small but made up for by the reasonable price and even better is combined shipping. I've done research before buying a plant to make sure my location is suitable for the plants though. It's better to get plants that will thrive in your area than to try to MAKE or FORCE acclimation. You may be successful one year just to fail the next. If it were possible for these plants to grow successfully in your area I think we would be hearing about it.
John

Like John I've also had good experiences with Ebay sellers. Just check their feedback and get recommendations from others. There's also a number of online/mail order nurseries that are reliable. A good resource for checking out an online vendor is Garden Watchdog which is a part of Dave's Garden.

Here is a link that might be useful: garden watchdog

thank you guys , appreciated sharing your experience
Zeren

Karyn and John,

P. parritae is not easy to come by on Ebay. The two sellers I'm aware of are Strange Wonderful Things and Zostropz (sp?) I'm sure there are a few more. Strange Wonderful Things frequently sells them for quite a bit of money; Zostropz got $440 for a one gallon several months ago. Prices vary, but with so few sold online I imagine it's pretty difficult to find one. The best way to get one is to be a member of Strybing or UC Botanical Garden and go to their member's sales of their annual/twice annual sales right when they open. It's rare that Strybing will have them at their monthly sales. They haven't been there in months, at least. I got lucky on Saturday. They were $18 each; I'm selling two at cost and probably keeping one.

With demand so high and the supply so low, it doesn't make much sense to send them some place they will die. On Ebay of course they go to the highest bidder, whatever growing conditions she or he may have.

Even though I think SWT's auctions go for ridiculous amounts I will say that he does stress that one should have the proper growing conditions. We all know where he gets most of his plants and he doesn't set high beginning prices for his auctions. They just go so high. I'd never buy anything from him because I've been able to find 80% of what he has elsewhere for much less but more power to him if people are willing to shell out that kind of money.

Karyn,

I don't know the guy who sells as SWT, but I know friends of his, and they speak very highly of him. Since you bring up his descriptions of growing conditions, I'll quote from his recent Ebay auction (I hope it's OK to quote someone in this context)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120474467035

"Like most other Tasconia-type Passifloras, this one is heat-sensitive, and will drop its blooms if temperatures climb into the 90s. If you happen to live along the coast of California, the vine should do well outdoors. Elsewhere, it will probably need to be grown in a climate-controlled room, preferably below 80 degrees, with cooler nights. The vine normally climbs through trees, where it can choose how much sun it gets. You may grow it along a large trellis, provided that it gets some protection from strong afternoon sun. It can probably survive a few degrees of light frost, but it's best to protect it from all frost. Passiflora parritae is very hard to propagate, which is partly why it's so unavailable."