Mick,

I have mixed feelings about the use of Neem, but it is one of the more effective organic products available. It is OMRI-approved although I believe their guidelines define it as a tool in Integrated Pest Management programs which is to be used only after milder methods or rememdies have been tried without success. However, it can burn plant foliage if applied at temperatures above 90 degrees, so keep that in mind. And, in fact, here in our climate, I think Neem and some other foliar products (including insecticidal soaps and superfine horticultural oils) can burn at significantly lower temperatures--more like 80 degrees than 90 degrees.

Neem is derived from the Neem tree, which is native to Burma and India and grows in many tropical areas. The Neem tree, by the way, is related to Chinaberry and Mahoghany. Extracts of the neem leaves and/or seeds are used as a natural pesticide. Some extracts from neem bark are used in some products as well.

Neem is is antibacterial, a fungicide and a pesticide. However, it is NOT a systemic pesticide if used as a foliar spray. It IS a long-lasting systemic insecticide on pests located in soil if used as a soil drench.

Neem is generally recognized as safe to mammals. It DOES NOT harm human beings, earthworms, butterflies, birds, plants, most beneficial insects or animals.

Neem extract does not instantly kill pests. Instead, it works in more subtle ways. Insects absorb some compounds from Neem and those compounds block their endocrine system and disrupt their reproductive cycle. You will find that Neem works in different ways on different pests. In animals that molt and go through multiple instars, Neen represses the molting which therefore interrupts their growth cycle. In some insects, it suppresses feeding. With other insects, it does not kill them but does repel them.

Neem is an effective control for loopers, leaf miners, weevils, psyllids, aphids, whiteflies, thrips, mealy bugs, gypsy moths, sawflies, hornworms, and webworms. Some people believe it is effective on squash bugs and cucumber beetles.

Neem is sometimes effective against some foliar diseases (viral and bacterial) if sprayed on foliage.

Some people use Neem a lot and swear by it. I don't. I have used it in the past, but the truth is that I'd just rather not use pesticides at all, and here is my reason why.

In an organic garden, one of your MOST EFFECTIVE pest controls is beneficial insects. Those beneficials help keep bug populations under control by eating the "bad" bugs. If I spray Neem and kill off all the "bad" bugs, or even most of them, then my beneficial insects will either leave or die because their food source has been removed. Then, when bad bug populations resurge, I have no beneficial insects around to deal with them. So, I choose not to use Neem.

When attempting to control insects, I rely most upon beneficial insects but also upon birds (domestic ones, and my chickens and guineas as well), bats, toads and frogs, and dragonflies.

If a particular pest is giving me trouble, I try to find an organic remedy which targets that specific insect, like using Slug-Go or Slug-Go Plus for snails, slugs, pill bugs and sow bugs, for example. I sometimes use particular strains of Bt for whichever pest they target--Bt San Diego, for example, for Colorado Potato Beetles, or BT Israelensis for mosquito larvae. For grasshoppers, I use Nosema locuste, which targets only members of the grasshopper and locust families.

Because Neem is known to kill over 200 kinds of insects, I don't like using it EXCEPT as a last result and I seldom get that desperate. I just consider it to be more of a broad-spectrum product than I am comfortable using.

Believe me, I have nothing against Neem. I have even used shampoos and soaps containing tea tree oil (another name for neem) on my dogs. It just doesn't fit in with my garden philosophy of using as little pesticides in the garden as possible. To me, there is SO MUCH MORE to organic gardening than merely substituting an organic product for a chemical product. (There are many supposedly "safe" organic products that are just as toxic and dangerous as the supposedly more dangerous chemical ones.) To me, organic gardening is all about the garden being an entire ecosystem where various members of the ecosystem work to keep one another in balance to the extent that it is possible to do so. Having said that, though, there are some pests for which I have to "import" the ingredient needed to maintain the eco-balance, like releasing ladybugs or spraying a form of Bt.

This year, the only pesticides I have used have been Slug-Go Plus to control the sowbugs and pillbugs and Nosema locuste to control the grasshoppers. I use Slug-Go and similar products every year, but I only use Nosema products about once every 3 or 4 years. I prefer to use lady bugs, green lacewings and other beneficials, but that is just me.

Is there a specific pest you are wanting to target with the Neem? I am not trying to discourage you from using it by any means, but there may be a better treatment for whatever you're encountering.

Dawn

Dawn

At the moment there are no specific pest I am aiming at. My problem with the woodlice was solved by your good self.

I actually had a couple of people compliment me on my blog, saying how healthy my veggies looked and what I used to keep them in good condition.

Up to now I've not really used anything but, with us having had such a wet period, I know that will change as soon as things hot up and I'd like to be prepared.
For this reason I wanted a little feedback about thoughts on Neem from actual users in this area.

I've HAVE noticed that there are a fair amount of tiny grasshoppers around but they dont SEEM to be doing much harm. Maybe as they grow things will get worse.

From my own limited experience I know that what follows lots of grasshoppers is lots and lots of striped blister beetles (the scourge of my garden these last 2 seasons) and, should I have to point the finger at one perticular bug, I think they will be my biggest threat.

I dont mind sharing some of my crop with Mother Natures creatures I just get a little peeved when they want to either eat or ruin the whole lot !

Mick.

I recall using Neem oil once (in a spray container) one summer very long ago (BBG--before butterfly gardening). Anyway, the plants HATED it. They curled up their toes and died. I did not use much of it because I am always wary about using too much of anything, so I usually start out using less than the recommended dose. I just gave them one squirt.

So, I stopped using it. I think I was using it for powdery mildew and it was suggested to me from another gardening person.

Never again!! That was just my experience, though.

Susan

Mick,

I don't have much trouble with blister beetles but they are probably about as hard to control as stink bugs. I'm going to do some research on the blister beetles and the green and brown stinkbugs and see what I can find out.

For grasshoppers, I use Nolo Bait which kills them best when they are in their smallest stages, roughly 1/4" to 1/2" long. Still, more migrate in from other areas and my guineas stay busy eating them. There is a fairly safe bait product you can scatter around the garden to target them. It is called Eco-Bran. It is not organic, but it works and it is considered fairly safe.

Grasshoppers were very bad our first couple of years here--they were very numerous and were eating our cotton throw rugs on the porch and our fiberglass windowscreens, in addition to eating every plant we had planted. They even ate the peaches on the trees, leaving nothing but the peach pits hanging there.....and they were eating the bark off of young trees. I HATE grasshoppers. Of course, their population is cyclical, and runs in roughly 7 year cycles, so we're due or even overdue for a bad year this year or next.

Grasshoppers began hatching out here in Love County in JANUARY, which is 4 to 6 weeks earlier than we normally see them here, but we did have a very warm and very dry winter. (Wet winters are better because the moisture helps spread disease.) So, I am expecting a bad grasshopper year, and what I am seeing in the garden backs that up. I have more grasshoppers in the garden than we've ever had. The guineas go in through the gate and clear them out periodically, but the guineas would rather be out in the pasture where fences and trellises and tomato cages don't get in their way.

Susan,

That's one of my major problems with Neem oil---it burns foliage. They say it is safe to use at temperatures of up to 90 degrees, but I disagree. Even if you mix it at rates WEAKER than the recommended ones, it can burn some foliage at temperatures in the low 80s.

I think it probably varies, depending on the foliage. For example, a plant with thick glossy leaves, like a Burford Holly, probably could handle Neem at higher temps., but tomtoes and other veggies with tender leaves cannot.

I have learned to steer clear of many organic remedies because they burn foliage in our climate. Every time someone recommends spraying foliage with insecticidal soap or neem oil or citrus oil or even superfine summer-weight horticultural oil, I cringe. While those products may work fine and without damaging the foliage in cooler climates than ours, I have found them all to burn foliage here if used above 80 degrees or so.

At first, I wouldn't spray if the temperatures exceeded 90 degrees. I still got foliar burn, though, so I cut back to 85 degrees as my cutoff, and then to 80 degrees. Nowadays, I won't hardly spray with anything at all in any temperature except Garrett Juice (an enhanced form of compost tea), alfalfa tea, liquid seaweed or liquid fish emulsion.

I don't use Daconil for tomato foliage problems but lots of people do. For it to be effective, you have to spray at 7 to 10 day intervals virtually from the first day you put the plants into the ground. Well, even it can burn foliage at temps. above 80 degrees, so I don't see how anyone here can use it any later than May of most years.

I think the issue of spraying ANYTHING on plant foliage in hot temperatures (and seeing resultant damage) is not mentioned as much as it ought to be. It seems to be one of those things you have to learn the hard way.

Dawn

I'm sure I've read somewhere that an equal parts mixture of lime and flour works on Blister Beetles, never tried it yet though. Dawn, if you find conformation of this please let me know.

I've had swarms of these pests, literally hundreds and hundreds of them attack my plots these last 2 years and they can strip a tomato plant down to the stems in a day. Sweet pepper plants are a favorite of theirs too. Anything which is left gets covered with their yukky black secretions.
Yes, they are my pet hate.

I used Neem last week on my garden. A week later all my yellow and zuchinni squash are looking really bad. They started withering and not just during the heat of the day. They are like that day or night and getting worse. The daytime temps have been 90 plus for last 2 weeks but i sprayed at dusk.Sound like it was the Neem or is it just too hot for veggies now?

Neem oil works well for powdery mildew and blackspot on my roses...however it has also been my experience that it causes leaf burn if sprayed in the high temps of the Texas summer. I use it it in the early spring to prevent black spot during our rainy season. It does seem to deter the bugs from eating the leaves of my roses. I've never used it on vegetables so I can't say anything there.
Happy gardening!