One almost wonders, with all the genetic things scientists are doing these days, why someone can't genetically mix some palm with something like a pine that would be cold hardy to like zone 4. Who knows. Maybe one day.

A palm-pine hybrid would be quite a feat - mixing a monocot (angiosperm) with a conifer (gymnosperm)? Sounds like sci-fi.

More likely (but probably just as unrealistic) would be to isolate the genetics responsible for synthesis of "anti-freeze" compounds within the plant fluids of cold-hardy plants, and splice them into palm embryos using a viral vector. Problem is who the heck would fund such a project, which has no real value to our society.

Well, like everything else. If the palm growers could make a new plant, they could sell it all over the world.

they could sell it, but would there be buyers other than palm freaks like us? and the price would be at a premium, so you have to wonder...Look at something like Musa basjoo, a cold-hardy banana, easy to find, cheap - sales haven't exactly taken off, the general public is unaware for the most part.

For now, we drag bigger and bigger pots. Soon some of us might have to make holes in our ceilings to fit some palms!

I'm looking on some good advice on prepairing my outdoor cold hardy palms for the winter. I live in zone 7 and would like some advice? Also an inexpensive and decent way to build a greenhouse? Help? You can email me at chucksewell@msn.com,, Thanks

I live in an essentially frost free climate where my limitations on what I can grow are not much, but one of the most sought after palms in my book is Chamaerops humilis var. Vulcano. It is more dwarfed with barely segmented leaves and has a very "tough" appearance to it. It is cold hardy as hell!

orchiddude, you are anti palmate.LOL

Now nucci60, you know I dont like the ugly ones. I cant help it. I dont like them. I dont want any. If I am going to grow a palm and put that much into it, I want a pretty one that people will talk about and ask where I got it and want to buy it from me etc...

That reminds me, we had a yard sale once and I had a triangle palm sitting on the patio. I swear everyone wanted the plant, they didnt care for the stuff we were selling, all they wanted to do was talk about the palm. You know the blueish color I guess made them look. Anyway, I guess they thought I would sell for yard sell prices. LOL

So I guess to answer your guestion, yes I am.

I have to agree with timh. I lived in south Florida years ago and it gets old. To me, it's more interesting to be driving a country road in southern IL and seeing someone with a trachy in their front yard. Or wild sabal minors in the bottom lands. Just this morning I was driving to work in St. Louis and glanced at a home on the hiway frontage road and saw 2 large queen palms. They of course will have to be moved or heavily protected come winter, but man was I surprised to see them. I'm going to take pictures tonight on my way home. Anyway, its fun to see the great lengths people will go to have unusual plants in their yard.

Why do I get the impression that everyone who has participated in this thread up to now has been male? Am I mistaken? Or is tropical plant zone denial a guy kind of thing? Just curious.

I'm looking into hardy palms myself, while suffering under the additional handicap (as I think it is) of alkaline clay soil, so the whole project is a challenge. And I am not inclined to coddle my plants. I'm currently on vacation in my home state of Florida (in north Florida) where Sabal palms are native, and I think they're quite handsome. Trachycarpus fortunei is the one palm which is widely grown where I live, I suspect for the most part in alluvial soils, and it's a surprising palm for a Floridian until you get used to it. Now I like it. It has its own character. I think it might do very well in creating a temperate rainforest kind of ambience, which unfortately my land doesn't lend itself to. I don't think I've ever seen a healthy palm that I thought was ugly.

Melissa

Melissa,
It's typical that those in zone_denial are more commonly men. Not to say all - we have women in our palm society too.

Southern IL boy,
I agree. I have told my wife that a couple hours into SoFL is enough. Incredibly, you get tired of too many palms, especially when they're unkept. I LOVE to find palms in places I don't expect. If I drive into z7a and someone has a live oak w/S.minor underneath, I'm thrilled.

Corny as it sounds, beauty is really in the eye of the beholder. Personally, I love the look of subtropical gardens and plants. Living in a a zone 7 or 8 gives you the possibility of growing plants at both ends of the climate zone thus increasing the number of species that may be grown (especially if the gardener is sensitive to microclimate variations). Aesthetically, I happen to like the look of the more palmate palms--though I collect the feather ones as well. Sometimes, I think ugliness judgements are just based on how common some plants are. Take Washingtonias for example. They are one of the few species of native American palms, grow incredibily fast, are extremely robust, drought and heat tolerant, yet many palm enthusiasts HATE them. If they were slow growers from some place "exotic", finicky, rare and expensive every palm nut (no pun intended) would be trying to obtain one. Similary, another native American, the Sabals, are terrific palms. They're an ancient genus of palms that are robust, and cold hardy. Those enormous blue-green leaves are also gorgeous. True, most are incredibly SLOW growers. As for beauty (or ugliness) of South Florida, just keep in mind that it has been so completely changed by mankind, that it bears NO resemblance to its native past. The modern look of South Florida and its dominance by palms was created by man (mostly transplanted northerners).

NJOasis,

I think I just get saturated on them in the MIA area when people don't care for them.

As for Washingtonia, I can understand folks in LAX hating them. They shine however, when you get to PHX; they absolutely thrive on the heat of the desert and generally are not trimmed so much.

Correct me if i'm wrong but sabal palmettos are not native to florida are they ?

Disregard that stupid question !

I posted this elsewhere and will post it here too. This palm is growing in zone 6a... it's not a fan palm, the pic was after sun stopped shining on that spot, so it's in shade now and doesn't look as beautiful as it does when you see it with your own eyes:

If that is in Rochester, NY, you can do better in your zone!

^That Palm is a Butia, probably capitata. Thats encouraging for me, as I am growing one in South Jersey which would be 7a/b. Maybe I'll get some pics. (it looks great after 4 days of 100 degrees)

How long has that Butia been growing there? Does it stay outside all winter? or is it a seasonally "moved" palm? If it stays there, what kind of protection, if any, does it get during winter? I find it pretty hard to belive that that palm stays there year round, let alone w/ no protection. Butia Capiata is a very, probably THE most cold hardy pinnate palm, but the farthest north I have seen them growing with no protection is Va Beach, VA. That area also looks very open, unprotected, and not much like there could be much of a microclimate either. Im very interested in more details about this palm, its history..etc. Thanks!

Without some history on this palm it is basically like the spaceship in my backyard!Would you like to see a picture of it?

That photo looks kind of fishy. I did a bit of research on Highland Park in Monroe County and I didn't find a single website that talked about the palm. They talked about tulips, pansies, lilacs....but no palms. I did find that they have a Butia-looking palm in the Lamberton Conservatory at Highland Park, but that one is indoors.

The palm is barely visible on the left side of this photo:
http://www.inforochester.com/Lamberton.htm

And here it is on the right side:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sieger/2375781892/

I also found a photo of the same Highland Park sign as above, and although it is from a different angle, there is not sign of a butia behind the sign. Here's the pic:
http://www.waymarking.com/gallery/image.aspx?f=1&guid=66de7881-79f4-4081-a11a-8ca23def89e4&gid=3

I think that image was photoshopped. Just what i could dig up with 5 minutes of searching on google.

Well I guess the poster that posted that pic is not going to return to give us any history on that palm. Geee.. im SHOCKED. *rolls eyes*. Even if that palm was there for a time, it just cant be there permanently. IF they can grow those in Rochester with little to no protection, then the National Mall here in Washington, D.C. should be lined with Sable Palmettos by now.

The photo does look somewhat fishy also upon closer inspection. I see some inconsistencies in it.

In the 2nd pic of that sign its hard to tell anything. It appears to be from the same angle, but theres really no point of common reference between the two photos. I did notice a conservatory in the background, maybe they house palms in there and move them outdoors during summer? Maybe there is a way we could find out and end this apparent mystery! haha!

I posted this on another thread earlier.

The palm was probably put in this spring. I just did a search for the area on Windows Live Search and found this picture. I've circled the area where the palm would be behind the Highland Park sign and its just an empty bed. BTW It looks like a Mule Palm X Butiagrus nabonnandii. Thats one expensive annual. LOL!

Pretty cool Jay,I guess I better beat you to any google pics of my backyard that don't have a spaceship in them and photoshop them in.lol

Butia in Rochester? Sounds like the lady growing them in zone 4, only she protects them.

Hi Everyone.

Sorry I haven't gotten back at anyone lately, we're preparing for the PR Festival here in Rochester (I'm the webmaster and they have a lot of updates), I also help with tech support for Marc Anthony Fanclub (he's on tour and that means site overload and a lot of tech support for the fans) and a few other things I'm involved in. So I'm very busy.

The palm tree is a Butia Capitata, apparently - some tell me might be crossbred. I haven't gotten a hold of anyone at the park yet who can tell me about it, but it IS there. I've ordered two off of eBay today (5 gallons each @ $24.95 shipping included).

The picture looks weird cause it's a cellphone shot. It looks fishy, but no editing whatsoever. All you scheptics need to calm down. It's there. I tried getting a satellite shot and got the same empty space as Josh posted. So I agree it's a recent planting. More and more people here in Rochester are finding out - I guess I'm not the only one who almost crashed when he drove by and saw it. I'm starting to hear that same story from a few folks. It's very exciting to me. We're just a zone 6!!!

I'll try to get better pics with my digital camera - my phone takes 2MP shots and it looks bad... I'll even take video shots so that no one says I photoshopped it! In fact, I think I have some spare time this afternoon and it's nice and sunny!

Okay, I'm back. Here are the pictures I took today followed by a video. I did notice a small ring around the base of the palm, but I was told that was to help stop water from running off and direct it down the roots. I don't know.

There was a photographer there taking pictures of it, but he wasn't too friendly and didn't seem to like my questions. :(

Here's a link to the video:

Here is a link that might be useful: Highland Palm video (MySpace Video)

They must move it inside every year....and the Google image is the wrong season.

WITH REGARDS TO xerophyte_nyc's post.....

-----------------------------------------------------------
It's funny how most garden hobbyists tend to prefer plants that do not grow in there climate, it's normal.
In England, they enthusiastically cultivate native american plants that most here would consider to be weeds.

There are many bonsai enthusiasts in warm climates that go through great lengths to give non-native species like maples a refrigerated winter dormancy.

And we have zone-pushers here trying all sorts of stuff to grow plants that wouldn't survive otherwise.
-----------------------------------------------------------

I think I'm guilty of that myself. Here in Western Pa. I have Bananas ( I even got fruit!), a sago and a few other varieties of Palms. The palms are in pots and as soon as the wife gets back from her trip with the digi-cam, I want to take some pics of the palms I have so that some of you can identify them for me. As for the weather, I can't stress enough how much I hate living in a zone that routinely gets frosts and hard freezes. I like hot humid climates with plenty of rain fall. I'd move, but I don't want to force my wife to, as she has her job and family here, so I just suck it up.

BTW xerophyte, how in the world would someone who lives in a very warm climate or one that doesn't have cold weather give a maple tree winter dormancy, esp if it's fully grown tree?

In regards to the palm in Rochester:

Ok, I believe its there now, but I also believe that that palm is moved every year to an indoor location. There just is no way a Butia Capiata can grow outdoors that far north. We cant even grow those here ( at least not without heavy protection) and in our urban heat island were about a cold zone 8a. We do have micro climates that approach a zone 8b here, but still.

*****

In regards to maples and such growing in warm climates: If maples can be grown in Florida, there is no reason in the world why they can't be grown in England's climate. I know there are plenty of maples in Florida, because I have seen them first hand, even in south Florida. They do go through a dormancy period. Dormancy periods are more triggered by daylight hours change, and sun angle change , than they are by temperature change. Even though many of the maples I have seen in Florida retained at least 1/2 to 2/3rds their leaves during winter, they are still in a dormancy period.

A sidebar here... as a testament to just how warm the winters have become here in the mid atlantic region the past few winters, espeically last winter, many of the silver and red maples, at least here in my local area retained about 1/2 of their leaves into January, and many of them flowered again in late February, and some, in some microclimate locations such as the one behind my building, leafed out in mid march. I used to think it was kind of odd seeing trees around here still with much of their foliage, approaching christmas time, but it happens every year now so I have kind of gotten used to it. Live oaks in my area here, are evergreen, and not deciduous. We are about the northern most location you will find evergreen live oaks. The few that there are north of here, are in fact deciduous.

Yeah, I still don't know details on it. The ring around the base made me think it might be in a pot, but a gentleman there said all the trees there have it when newly planted to help keep water from running off and direct it over the roots. This is the first summer it's been out there, THAT I did find out (and it's starting to cause a buzz among local residents who see it). So I'll have to keep an eye out to see if in winter they take it in or mummy-wrap it up. Transplanting it too much might stress it to death. Mr David Francko (Palms Won't Grow Here and Other Myths) claims to be growing these outdoors in Ohio (zone 6a as well) with no problems. I'll keep everyone informed. I myself bought two of them to experiment with. They're beautiful!

Very cool juni perez. Keep us posted on how they do and how you protect them. Did you buy pindos or mules? I still think the Highland Park palm is a mule palm.

Jay

I bought Pindo Palms. If they sold me Mules/hybrids as Pindos, then it's my fault for not researching the seller. Eh? Lol.

I'll let you know what it is exaclty (the Highland palm) once I find someone who can help with that. I'll also definitely be keeping an eye on that this winter. So far, I'm being given the run-around... they're either not taking me seriously OR they're being typical government workers not wanting to do any work.

Update on the Palm in Highland Park...

... they pulled it into the greenhouse. =(
I don't think they'd like to risk it.

Wow, I am so glad they protect it! I was just thinking what a waste, though it looks great planted there in the summer. Also, I am one of those who put my bonsai in the fridge to give them dormancy, just put them in the other day.

Hey everyone. Its been a while since I was last here and I was just reading some of the old threads where we talked about ugly palms... lol

Just wondering if the older members are still around?

Here is a few of my plants growing.

{{gwi:1136027}}

I'm still here, although I don't visit this forum very often anymore. Most of my palms are doing well; here's a recent view of my back yard showing what I think is a very NOT-ugly windmill palm:

I'm still here but I've moved 3 times since then, and have actually returned full circle to the same town.

2007 - Irwin, Pa

{{gwi:405754}}

2008 - Harrison City,Pa

2011 - Dubois, Pa

2012 - Irwin, Pa

{{gwi:1136032}}

Orchiddude, where abouts in alabama your in. Those palms are very beautiful. Whats your secret ?. Im growing a Pindo palm in the back yard along with a washingtonia robusta and 4 filifera seedlings.

Yalls plants look great. Even the needle palms...lol

prinbama--I am in north alabama around Muscle Shoals area. Been growing palms in pots for 20 years. No secret really, just make sure they are watered regular and feed 5 to 6 times a year. Plants in pots like mine need to be feed more often than ones in the ground due to all the watering. I make sure I give most of them at least 6 to 8 hours of sunlight. Here is another view of patio. My favorite palms are the spindles, bottles, and any feather leaf type palm. In the background you see a huge spindle, and in front a triangle. California Fan on side. Bottles are by the fence, and a Phoenix roebelenii on the left. If you look right down the middle you can see the Champagne Palm (Hyophorbe indica), its getting big now, more pictures of that later. I will share more pictures with you this weekend.

{{gwi:1136033}}

Great Job with your palms. They look very happy and healthy. Here's Pictures of my little project. Im kinda testing the ground to see how well my Pindo and washingtonia's will do.

I purchased this Mexican fan palm from Home Depot just to see how well it will live in north alabama. So far its been in the ground for about 3 months and its grown about 4 fronds.

Here's my Pindo i picked up a week ago at a local Nursery.

Here's My Windmill palm with my seedlings (1 mexican fan palm, 4 california fan's)

My seedlings. the blue container is a mexican fan palm about 3 months old and the one on the left is a california about 6 weeks old.

and 3 more filiferas about 6 weeks old.

how can i post multiple picture's in one post ?. havent figured that out yet.

To post multiple pictures just place the image link under each other.

example:

img src=Http://www.mypictures.com/palm1.jpg>;
img src=Http://www.mypictures.com/palm2.jpg>;
img src=Http://www.mypictures.com/palm3.jpg>;

Make sure the Make sure the

Plants look good.

Thank you orchiddude, I have a question though. I dont know much about pindo's but im starting to see some yellow on some of fronds. is this a sign of something ?. I think its because of some shock from transplanting but i would like a second opinion.

It would be really hard to tell without knowing what all it has been through. Transplanting might do it. It could be an old leaf etc... Not much you can do be wait and see what happens. If a new leaf is growing, your probably ok. Just give it time and see what happens.

I'm still around, been a member on this forum for at least 8 years now??? My original palms died as I learned from my mistakes. I got into palms with a Mexican Fan palm purchased from Daytona Beach 13 years ago. It eventually rotted after being put outdoors too early one wet spring. Kind of funny, just this past year I purchased two new Washingtonias, both Filibustas because that original Washy was one of my favorites. Glad to see some of the members from years ago are still around.

Johnnieb- Do you protect your palms at all anymore? Do you still have the Waggies?

Yeah There's 3 new fronds growing out of it. I'll keep an eye out for it.