Arizona sooner,

I haven't found that heat alone splits tomatoes and I've been growing them on my own for about 25 years now, and with my dad throughout my childhood, high school and college years.

Heat plus uneven watering (whether from rainfall or irrigation or a combination of both) can cause tomatoes to split or crack, particularly once they have reached the breaker stage.

Bland flavor also can be another sign of too much water, so since you mention two problems in your post that are both related to too much water, I'm guessing your plants have had too much water at some point since the tomatoes reached the breaker stage. And, please understand that I am not saying that as a criticism or to imply it is your fault....sometimes too much water is hard to avoid.

When fruit is overwatered, the inside portion of the fruit...the flesh, seeds, gel, etc. are able to grow more quickly than the skin and that is why the tomatoes crack.

I don't know which heirlooms you grew this year, but I have grown many heirlooms--and some of them are wonderful and have amazing flavor and others have poor flavor. So, I hope you won't reject all heirloom tomatoes just because the ones you grew this year seemed lacking in flavor. I grow both heirlooms and hybrids and there are great-flavored and poorly-flavored ones in both categories.

This has been a very hard year for veggie gardeners here. We had to deal with late freezes in March and April, heavy rainfall in April and May, and very early high heat in June....we had July heat in June and now we're having August heat in July and I am wondering what in the world August will do to us.

It also is not that unusual for the first few tomatoes from each plant to have poorer flavor than the tomatoes produced later in the year. This is commonly believed to be related to the fact that often the earliest fruit form in cooler conditions.

At least you have a tomato-eating dog. I have one dog that eats tomatoes, but the other seven don't care for them. All my dogs like pumpkins and squash though. They pick them and eat them at any stage, and don't even wait for them to reach their mature size sometimes.

I hope the spaghetti sauce is yummy and the cukes too.

I hope that you don't give up on tomatoes or heirlooms just because this is a difficult year and you have been disappointed in the results. I grow Early Girl and/or Better Boy every year and while their flavor is (to my taste buds at least) better than grocery store tomatoes, there are at least 50 varieties that I've grown that I think have better flavor.

If raising delicious, home-grown produce were simple, everyone would do it. It isn't, though, and they don't. To paraphrase the words of the great Winston Churchill, never, never, never, ever give up. : )

Dawn

What's the breaker stage of a tomato? Is that before or after they blush?

Gamebird,
I'm sure Dawn will be along but I'm going to add my 2 cents. My view on it is on a red tomato when the blossom end is pink. Basically just starting to turn. Personally I like a full blush before I pick one. I usually leave them longer if I can but want at least a full blush. I prefer a fully vine ripened tomato but sometimes the insects, birds, ect don't allow that. What they call mature greens have a white or yellow star on the blossom end.

Arizona Sooner,
I agree with Dawn. I hope you keep a somewhat open mind and try some more. But if hybrids are what taste best to you then by all means grow them. I grow both. And a few hybrids are in the top portion of my favorites. It is important to find tomatoes that do well in your garden that you like the taste of. And without knowing what op's/heirlooms you grew I can't say if they are my favorites or not. Dawn covered the possible causes. Environment can affect flavor way more than many can imagine. As an example Kellogg's Breakfast is among my favorites if the weather is right. Sometimes the first fruit doesn't taste as well and cool night temperatures in the fall can affect the flavor on them before most others. I've noticed a few other varieties very sensitive to temps. The weather as a whole will have an effect. Wind, rain, sun, cloudy, cool, hot, drought, stress all can change the flavor. I have very difficult conditions and find some that taste good when grown elsewhere doesn't here. I'm also a firm believer soil have an impact on flavor. Like I always say grow what you like and don't let someone else dictate what you grow. I like to experiment every year with at least a few new ones. Others are happy growing the same proven ones every year. Enjoy your gardening. Jay

Game bird,

In the attached link you can see photos of a tomato in various states as it ripens. Somewhere between Day 49 and Day 53, this tomato reached the early breaker stage where you could see the first hint of color that Jay described above. Some people pick at the early breaker stage when there is only the tiniest hint of pink on a red-when-ripe tomato or the tiniest hint of pale yellowish-orange on an orange-when-ripe tomato. Some people wait until it is at the full breaker stage.

Like Jay, I prefer fully vine-ripened ones, but I'll pick then anywhere from mature greens (though I hate to do it) to mid-breaker if something is going on environmentally that makes it prudent to pick them 'early'.

For example, right now my plants are simply loaded with huge green tomatoes....larger tomatoes than I normally have in July, and for which we can thank the rain that has fallen the last few weeks. I am not watering these plants AT ALL (the ones in the ground) until these fruit break because giving them much water at all right now could seriously impact the flavor. Of course, in this heat, not watering can cause its own problems. So, I look at the plants daily, pick the fruit that are fully ripe, or at least 75% of the way there, worry about the plants gettig 'too dry', don't water any way, and enjoy the harvest. It is almost like a game of chicken......and I wonder who is going to blink first.

IF rain were forecast and I thought it extrememly likely heavy rain were imminent, I'd pick every tomato that has made it to the early breaker stage. Usually, though, since rain is often forecast and then often misses us, I almost wait until the thunder and lightning are here before I take the rain seriously enough to strip my plants of breaker fruit. I've found that if I leave the breakers on and heavy rainfall occurs, bland flavor and cracking or splitting fruit will occur. Sometimes, I'm out there picking tomatoes as the rain starts falling.

Two weeks ago, I didn't pick the breakers because I thought the heavy rain had gone around us. I awoke early the next morning to a very heavy rainfall. I picked those that were at the breaker stage a day or two or three later, and they were more bland and had some splitting. By contrast, fruit that I've picked this week has had much better flavor.

Arizona sooners, To increase the odds of better flavor, and decrease the odds of splitting, I almost starve my plants of water once tomatoes are at the mature greens stage that Jay described above. If I have to water, I water all 85 plants with a watering can (because it forces me not to overwater) and give the plants only a gallon or two each.

And, everyone, this is one of the biggest challenges I have found with growing tomato plants in containers because they are self-contained and MUST have water daily in our heat, but I don't want to give them so much it affects the flavor. What works best with them is more frequent watering, but only small amounts of water.

Today I have another oven full of dehydrating tomatoes and more tomatoes cooking down into sauce on the stove. It is my favorite time of the year.

Dawn

Here is a link that might be useful: Photos of Ripening Tomatoes

Dawn and Jay...
I'm so glad you mentioned the first developed fruit from tomato plants possibly tasting bland. I was about ready to yank 2 Juliet hybrids for the same reason, even though they were loaded with green fruit and very healthy. The first little tomato's were very disappointing.

I had a late start planting due to spring floods, so most of my larger Tom's are just now developing good size fruits. By next year I hope to have the flooding of the Nile problem corrected. I'd always expected to have ripe fruit by the 4th of July.

Very good informative thread! Thanks :)

Barbara

Dawn,
Watering seems to get more puzzling for me every year. Like you know I've seemed to of had more issues than normal this year with certain holes and plants. And from everything I've read my containers don't act normal. Last year was my first experience with containers. Wasn't a big success but I learned a lot. I had read several opinions and recommendations on what to use and then mixed my own. I got it too rich for one thing. And also left the black containers setting where they caught too much hot sun. This year I moved them where they start getting shade after two. Painted a few white. Piled mulch around the sides and changed my mix. Most seem to be doing very good. Everyone says to water them every day in the heat. Last year I did and decided I was over watering. This last week even in the heat this last week I waited four days to water and think it was too soon. Puzzled why mine seem to go longer without watering. I did soak the tubs good when I filled them but don't water that much when I do now. Maybe it is my mixes. Jay

Thank you to everyone for your good replies. I figured that overwatering was probably my issue and now I know that it is the case. I travel on business every week from Sunday evening to Friday afternoon so I can't be at home to monitor the garden and yard. Hence, to keep the lawn green, the sprinkler system is set to run every day. And the tomatoes get watered at the same time. And then it rains an inch while I am gone last week.

Oh well, it's either that or allow them to all burn up, as no one around my house will help with the yard work.

On a positive note, the spaghetti sauce was really good last night!

Glad to hear the sauce was good. Hopefully the weather will become more cooperative and flavor will improve. Jay

Okay here's what I am going to do... I'm going to reduce the frequency and duration of the backyard sprinklers. The yard may brown up a little, but I'd rather have tomatoes that taste better.

I also harvested the turnips and lettuce that were acting a live mulch around the edges of the tomatoes (my garden is rather packed - did that in Arizona due to the small yards and high heat out there). So I would imagine the water uptake will be less this week. The cherokee purple has lots of fruit on it now - maybe they'll be better tasting for next weekend's harvest.

Barbara,

The only time my first fruits aren't bland are if we have a heat wave in April and May.

When we moved here from Texas in 1999, I was always happy to have the first ripe fruit in early to mid-June. Then I started experimenting and pushing the limits. After a few years of learning to combine early varieties/early planting and proper watering/feeding (as in not too much of either) along with covering the plants up on the occasional freezing night, I was able to start getting ripe tomatoes on plants in the ground by Memorial Day. Well, nothing succeeds like success, so then....

I started planting even earlier (early to mid-March in a year with cooperative weather), using fairly large transplants started from seed in January and was able to get ripe fruit on plants in the ground in April. While any home-grown tomato beats a grocery story tomato, the ones I pick in April are from flowers that likely formed in February or earliest March and their flavor is pretty bland. Having said that, I'd rather have them than not have them!

Wondering if I could "use" the concrete patio that is attached to the detached garage/barn to heat up containers/soil and get even earlier tomatoes, I plant 6 to 8 plants every year in pots that sit on the concrete slab and soak up a lot of winter and early spring sunlight and heat. They also have a steel wall behind them that reflects sunlight and heat onto them. I don't start these plants myself because I can buy fairly good-sized transplants (often with blooms on them) in the Dallas-Fort Worth metroplex around Valentine's Day that are much larger than the ones I start in January, and I refuse to try to start seeds during on the holiday madness in November-December. From those transplants, I also get ripe tomatoes in April, but their hotter microclimate gives me better-flavored tomatoes. And, of course, if a serious late freeze threatens (as has been common here in 2007-2009), I can drag the large containers into the garage at night.

I have tried to carry tomatoes very late into the fall, but their flavor does decrease significantly in November even if the weather is fairly warm, and I assume that must have something to do with the less intense sunlight and heat.

So, I have become spoiled and expect my first ripe tomatoes in April. I had some ripe ones in April this year but their flavor wasn't as good as in previous years. I also consider it a fairly disappointing year if I am not harvesting oodles of them by Memorial Day from plants in the ground, so this has been a disappointing year. The harvest here is fine, but very late compared to most years in our garden. Still, at least we have plants that are producing ripe tomatoes and there's plenty of other gardeners who don't, especially some of those in the NE who are fighting constant rain and little to no sunlight or heat plus the development of late blight.

I also understand the near-drought conditions in parts of the PNW have given some gardeners there the best crop they've had in years and I am happy for them.

Arizona Sooner, One of the hardest things for all of us is that we have to "work with that we've got". For me, that would mean yucky clay soil (even when improved, it is slower-draining than most soils) and recurring drought. For some folks in NE OK it almost always means too much rain, especially at planting time. For Jay in SW KS, it means too many cold nights too late in spring and very, very little rainfall in recent years. For you, it means being away from home and relying on a sprinkler system. Maybe you'll be able to tinker with your watering schedule and figure out a way to make it all work for you. I certainly hope so. I know that a lot of hard work, effort, planning and dreaming goes into each garden and it is very disheartening when the produce doesn't taste as good as it should. Don't give up. After 'tinkering' with my growing methods for longer than a couple of decades, sometimes I still struggle to find what works best in different circumstances. The good years, though, far outweigh the bad ones. So, in the midst of a bad year, you know what we're all saying and thinking. It goes something like this....."There's always next year. Next year I'll do some things differently. Next year will be better." And, you know, next year usually is better!

Dawn

I'm going to add a few more of my observations about flavor. Arizona Sooner mentioned Cherokee Purple. I've found seed source can really make a difference. The first time I grew it I was disappointed in the flavor. Fruit looked to be the right color or close but were smaller and nothing to brag about taste wise. I said I wouldn't grow them again. Craig who introduced CP I think saw mine and at one others comments in a thread and said he felt we had the faux CP that is out there. He sent me some seeds of his. The difference in the two is daylight and dark. His are some bigger, better production and probably a 8.5 on taste and the others were 5.5. I've seen that with other varieties as well. I think some is unintentional crosses and some is selection.
Kellogg's Breakfast is one that is sensitive to temps and watering. I kept bragging about it being in my top 3 a little over a year ago and another grower I exchange seeds with said Jay I'm giving it another try being that you seem to like it so well and will refrain from watering it as much. It moved into his top ten last year. But let a heavy rain come along and the flavor will drop for a few days and low temps does the same. It is one when it is good that everyone I've ever gave one too likes. Now CP is one that most really like but some don't. I take tomatoes to work. I've set out a sack full of assorted tomatoes on the table and had coworkers come begging for some of the KB. I've never grown a tomato in the several I've grown as sensitive to elements though. I see why some don't think it is worth the effort. And from the sources I've grown from the best are from seeds from Totally Tomatoes. Grown side by side with seeds from other sources I feel they are a little better. Now I'm growing from my own saved seeds. So it is easy for me to see how some can get discourage about flavor. The Pink Brandywine is one I've never tasted that "To die for flavor" that others talk about. Of course several growers tell me the first fruit usually isn't real good on them. And when you only get one then you don't have much too judge by. This year I'm getting a few set on the Cowlick's. Hopefully in a couple more weeks will be tasting and saving seeds of it. And also looks like Ed's Millenium and another Brandywine type are setting some. So maybe this year I will find that elusive taste I've been looking for. Overall climate can have a big impact. Here Goliath is usually a good producer and taster and for Dawn it doesn't taste as well. Most of the market growers here grow it. Has become very popular. So hopefully the taste will improve for all. Jay

Jay,

In the years I grew Goliath, I grew it as a spring tomato. Since you've had good results with it, that has encouraged me to try it again, so I have one plant each (from Bonnie Plants, cross your fingers and knock on wood that they aren't secret carriers of LB) of Goliath and Bush Goliath to try as fall plants. I'm going to put them in the ground on whatever day the cold front arrives here, which may be Saturday. Maybe they'll do better in the heat. Maybe I grew them in wet years? I don't remember. Too many tomatoes....too few properly functioning brain memory cells!

I love CP and Indian Stripe is even tastier and more productive. KB has never produced well or been tasty for me so I have about given up on it, and grow Nebraska Wedding as our "large orange tomato" instead. Most years it does very, very well here and is quite tasty, but a lot of rain can make it very watery and bland, much like a lot of the bicolors.

Brandywine is great in a good year, but I'm not sure it is worth the space and worry since there are more 'bad' (let's call them 'challenging') years than good ones. My good Brandywine years are the ones where I plant them early...like in March, and we have moderate rain and moderate temps through at least the end of May. If they bloom at the right time and mature in heat and low rainfall they are superb in flavor.

For a long time I only grew a handful of hybrids, including Early Girl (for earliness, not so much for its flavor), Better Boy, Big Beef, Beefmaster, Sweet Million and a couple of others. Since finding the Harris hybrids, though, I am growing more and more hybrids. This year, I didn't grow as many of my old favorite hybrids but instead grew more hybrids that are new or newish to me....Ramapo, Jet Star, Primetime, Supersonic, Moreton, Mountain Fresh Plus, Mountain Glory, Scarlet Red and Red Defender. Some of them are so tasty and productive that I may find I "have to" have them every year.

I do find it interesting that seed sources vary so much. I've always been happy with seeds from Totally Tomatoes, Victory Seed, Harris Seed and Tomatofest. I have used TGSC for a long time, but haven't been as pleased with their seeds or plants the last couple of years.

I almost never save seeds any more because it takes all the time I have to maintain the yard and garden and fields and put up/preserve/can/freeze/dehydrate the harvest. Seed saving just seems to be that last little thing on the "to do" list that I never get around to. I do still have some older saved seeds from several years ago, but mostly bean and flower seeds. (sigh) I need another 'me' in order to get everything done.

Dawn

arizona sooner - I am glad that there was a discussion of flavors and how they different from location to location and taste bud to taste bud. Of course, not all of us like the same thing in a tomato anyway. I read your post before anyone else had posted but didn't answer it. The reason that I didn't was that I was afraid my answer would offend you. In my opinion Early Girl is grown ONLY because you might get an early tomato. LOL As far as I am concerned, earliness is it's only redeeming quality. In fact, on a previous thread when we were talking about transferring tomato horn worms to a plant you didn't mind losing, only two came to my mind.....Early Girl and Sprite.

One year I grew an Early Girl in a WOW and got my first ripe tomato the same week that one of the local tomato growers told my husband that it was time to get the plants in the ground. It was a lot of work, and several nights I stuck a 2 litre bottle of hot water in that WOW and covered it all up to keep it from freezing. I stressed the plant so badly that I think it produced about 3 tomatoes that year.......but I didn't care because it was an Early Girl and I really don't care for the taste.

Many of us are guilty of trying to rush early plants of all kinds. This year at the plant swap, I took one of the straight neck squash that Dawn brought. Judging from the way the plant looked, I thought it was probably 2-3 weeks earlier than the ones I planted and grew inside under lights. It grew fairly quickly and while still small produced one small squash. Then it sat there making mostly male blossoms until the other squash caught up with it. Dawn lives in Zone 7 (almost 8, I think, LOL) and I live in Zone 6 in the NE corner of the state. Her climate is normally dry, mine normally wet. Now, what made the squash behave that way? I wish I knew. I know that it seems that I have few pollinators in the early spring. I wondered if maybe it had already had a bloom that was pollinated before I brought it home, but I don't think so. Was it the climate? At any rate, I picked the 2nd squash from it the same day as I harvested the container next to it that was a much younger plant.

I think some plants don't like to be rushed, but a tomato may be worth it, since we all yearn for that first taste each spring.

Dawn loves black cherry and so do I. In her garden she gets oodles and oodles. I grew two in containers last year and they hardly produced enough fruit to make growing it worthwhile. I plan to try it next year again when I can plant it in the ground.

I hope that you will continue to mix heirlooms in with your tomato selection because I feel you would miss a lot of good tasting tomatoes if you didn't. You water issue may solve a lot of problems.

I have to once again thank everyone for their replies. I can't wait to get back home this Sunday and see how the reduced watering has affected the tomatoes.

The last post from soonergrandmom was a good one, talking about flavor and rushing plants and the like. I've lived in a few different locations in the US and have had great backyard tomato flavor every year except this one. My tomatoes have been wonderful in Fort Worth, Northern Ohio, Phoenix, and even in Tulsa (last year). But this year has been different for some reason, and I think that reason has been the early heat and my heavy duty watering while it's been hot.

The tomatoes I grew in Ohio had to be the best (usually early girls, with some Rutgers varieties also). I don't think those plants were ever stressed until late September when they would freeze solid. The downside was I couldn't plant them until Memorial Day.

In Arizona, I planted in August or September (again early girls for the sometimes abbreviated growing season) and harvested for Thanksgiving or Christmas. During mild winters, we had ripe tomatoes all through January, February, and some plants hung on until June! And the flavor was generally very good except for those really cold days (50s) in January.

Last year I had great success with a dual season (June-July) and then (September-October) here in Oklahoma, again early girls and some other large better boy type varieties. But last year was cool and wet, and I almost never ran the sprinklers!

I guess it really is fun, yet frustrating sometimes, to grow your food and while you may have a lot of it, it doesn't taste as good every year.