Larry, I haven't read it. But I have heard about the theory. I suspect that there's some merit to it. I'd love to hear what you learn from this book.

George

Larry, I'm interested in building soil health and structure as well. I probably won't buy the books but I've been scouring the Internet for more info on the subject.

Also, I found that the following link has some great info on the subject, and I will be making adjustments in this years cover crops to address this vital issue.

There is a link,(inside this link) that covers using certain cover crops to manage weed suppression. I really need this because I discovered I had been creating some of my own problems by incorrect practices, and as a result had a terrible weed problem this year.

Thanks for bringing our attention to this.

(A caveat to this any soil building practice is to pay attention to the head's up and advice already given on the forum by Dawn and Jay about being careful about "amendments" such as hay, manure, compost from outside sources; etc, being potential sources of contamination.)

Barb

Here is a link that might be useful: Organic Soil, How to Build Up Nutrients

Larry,

I haven't read it and probably won't get around to it because my list of books I want to read is so incredibly long. (So many books....so little time....)

I am in favor of no-till gardening and farming in general. However, I don't think a person with thick, dense clay or rocky soil is doing themselves a favor if they start out with no-till gardening their very first year with that particular ground. I think the first couple of years, you buy yourself tons of time in terms of soil improvement if you rototill heavy amounts of organic matter into the soil to break up the clay. If you have rocky soil, it helps if you remove all the rocks you can by hand the first year or two. After that first couple of years, I think you can go no-till or low-till with success.

We rototilled heavily our first 5 years here, continually adding organic matter to our rock-hard, dense, red clay soil which now is a nice, brown clayey-loam with good levels of organic matter.

In the 7 years since we 'finished' improving our garden soil by rototilling organic matter into it, we have tilled only very rarely. I prefer to just pile on the organic matter and let it decompose on its own. I add organic matter, as surface mulch, to my garden beds just about every month. After all, I can walk 20 feet from my garden to the adjacent woodland and the top 8 to 12" of woodland soil is gorgeous, rich, brown, humusy, healthy soil teeming with microbial life and no one goes in there and rototills the soil. (Well, the armadillo visitors might do some of that, but not deliberately.)

You can do soil improvement only by piling on mulch and letting it decompose, but I prefer rototilling early in the process to get some of that organic matter down into the first few inches of soil instead of having all of it on the soil surface.

I first began learning about microbes and their roles in gardening in the 1990s, and I am sure my first 'teachers' were Malcolm Beck and J. Howard Garrett, both of whom are long-time proponents of feeding the soil and letting the soil feed the plants.

When you get around to reading the book, I hope you'll let us know what you think of it.

Dawn

Dawn

I have three small gardens. The one I hope to start with is about 700-800 sq.ft., and I have been working on it for 4 yrs. The Rye I plan to plant will give me fits because of the mass and large stools it will produce. I am not sure how I will handle that yet, I may have to till or spray to kill it.

I hope to gather a large amount of leaves this winter and may try to smother the Rye with the leaves, that is one reason I will be planting a little Hairy Vetch in with the Rye.(for added nitrogen) This is all just a shot in the dark because I have never none anything like this before.

I have my south garden that i started this year to fall back on if the north garden flops.

I have pictures of my work on the south garden I would like to post even tho dont think anyone else on the forum would be dumb enough to try getting soil like mine tilled in this heat, but all n all it looks pretty good. I just finished tilling yesterday but will add more organic matter if I can find it. The south garden will get a cover crop of Rye and Vetch also, but I expect it will have to be tilled in next spring.

Larry

Larry, uh, I guess I'm one of those dumb enough to till in this kind of weather, (actually, got DS to do it), cause I pulled up some corn stalks and wanted to get a couple of short term cover crops going in a hurry. I'm planting a border of buckwheat, and a patch with turnips and another with Daikon radishes.

If you have some Elbon left, I may try and contact you a little later on getting some, if I can catch up on things. I'm suspecting root knot nematodes in one area of my garden. Plus, I would also like the organic material to aid the soil structure and move toward a no till garden myself.

The Elbon shouldn't give you fits if it's mowed down, and tilled shallowly a month before you intend to plant.

Barb

Here is a link that might be useful: Elbon Rye to Combat RKN and Other Benefits

Barb, I am glad to know I am not alone, If the guys in white coats lock me up maybe I will have you to talk to.

I have Rye running out my ears. I bought a 50lb. bag and only used an oz. or 2..I planted a 20 ft row just to see how well it would germinate in this heat. I planted 8-19 and it in about 3in. tall now.

I planted buckwheat 8-4, 8-8, and 8-11. The 8-4 and 8-8 are blooming, the 8-11 is not doing as well but is planted in new garden, plus something is eating on it.

I plan on topping the buckwheat and tilling the tops in where I plan to plant cabbage.

I am having trouble with my Mustard, collards and swiss chards. They are up but not doing well, seems as tho they want cooler weather and maybe a little rain.

I hate giving up my tiller. I told DW that I would have to make a recording of it running and play it at night to calm my nerves. She let my know real quick that I would have to play it through my head phones.

Larry