Glenda,

I am trying to figure out what is going on with your crazy mixed-up beans. Do you happen to remember if the flowers that produce the white beans are white and if the flowers that produce brown beans are also white, or if they are a different color? I think the flower color of the beans could provide a clue if, and only if, the flower colors are different on the white-bean-producing plants versus the brown-bean-producing plants.

Dawn

No, the blooms were exactly the same; the only time I noticed a difference was when I picked my first ones...there were those long round pods all throughout the rows of the long flat pods.

The only colored bloom I had on the place was the pink blooms of the Cherokee Trail of Tears and the decorative Purple Hyacinth bean.

I guess I should just give up and forget about it.

I had always thought you wouldn't see a difference until you planted the seeds from the crossed ones the following year.

Glenda,

I have always thought that was true in terms of cross-pollinated beans, and I still believe it is true.

What I am wondering, since the flowers look the same, is if you have a spontaneous mutation or sport?

We need George's brain here to help figure this out!

I got out my copy of Suzanne Ashworth's book, "Seed to Seed", to seach for an answer and I came across this statement: "The distinctive seed coat patterns and the shapes of various Leguminosae seeds are sometimes used in attempts to prove the presence or absence of crossing. Leguminosae species also possess a wide variety of genetic characteristics that are not visible in their seeds, so statements about seed purity based solely on seed coat characteristics are not valid." So, Glenda, what does that statement mean to you? I think she is saying that sometimes bean seeds can show genetic variations (in their children, LOL) that are not apparent by looking at their seeds? Yet, her very next statement is "Changes in seed coat color are an indication of crossed seed". So, does she mean that your white seeds might look 'normal' but then grow out differently than what you expected (as they did) and then could produce seeds with differnt seed coat colors, which is clearly an indication of crossed seed?

The plot thickens. In the next paragraph she says "even if crossing has occurred that is capable of showing up visably, the crossed seeds that are harvested will look exactly like the parent seed.....Evidence of crossing only becomes visably apparent when another generation is grown out from those crossed seeds, first appearing as variation within the population of plants and then in the seeds that are harvested." Based on those statements, I'd say your seed had to have been crossed by the seed wholesaler who supplied the seed to the retailer from whom you purchased the seed. Your seeds look normal, but are hiding the cross inside their seemingly normal little white coated selves. Then, when you harvest their 'children', you can get the white and the brown beans, and that is your clue that your original seed stock was crossed, even though it looked normal.

Suzanne Ashworth goes on to make the point that all the batch of seed you started with/planted this year must be considered crossed then, since some of the white seeds you originally planted a few months ago are producing brown seeded beans. She suggests that if seed purity is important to you, then don't plant any remaining seed from your original batch, or from seed harvested this year, because all has the potential to be crossed.

In one of the prior posts, you said you like the brown-seeded beans. If that is the case and you have seed left over from your original planting, you have nothing to lose by planting it again because you may get more of the brown seeded beans you like. If you save brown seeds this year, I think they could give you either brown or white seeded beans because a cross has already occurred and, with any cross, you don't know what you'll get but you do know you're likely to get some white-seeded beans and some brown-seeded beans because that's what you got this year.

So, I think you have a cross, unless George can figure out if it might a sport or mutation (I don't know how one figures that out). But, I don't think the cross occurred this year in your garden. I think it occurred wherever your bean seed stock was commercially produced.

No other scenario makes sense to me.

Dawn

I have to agree with Dawn. You almost certainly received crossed seed.

There is just one more thing which comes to mind. In your original thread, those brown seeds sure looked a lot like Kentucky Wonder, to me. Now you say you picked your first dry KY Wonder seed and it looks like those brown seeds. Could it be that they ARE Kentucky Wonder? How they could get mixed in with the other planting, I don't know.

George

Thanks. I don't think I am going to figure it out so am dropping the subject, both here and in my mind!

It is definitely a KY Wonder look alike.

I will be planting all three beans next year to see what I end up with. They were all three great beans.

The End.

Glenda