Auther, I am sorry I did not get back to you sooner.

I have started beds in different ways. I now start then by tilling an area and adding compost and just keep building like that each year. Where I live now has very shallow top soil so I don't till over 4 or 5 inches deep. Because I live in a low area with slow draining soil I provide a path for the excess water to drain around the edge of the bed. I fill that drainage ditch with organic matter so there is an open path to the low point of lawn or area. I really don't know how to tell you, but I do have two or 3 pictures of where I added to the south garden. I will try to fine some. I do it this way so I can drive my lawn mower, cart or tiller across the border an any area.

This is some of the best soil I have. It test with a large amount of silt.

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This is how it looked after I finished with it. The soil drains well but is not much above grade. Also because it is very hard for me to dig ( I am a beat-up old man) I almost never remove the grass before tilling.

Larry

I find it very interesting about adding organic material to any and all kind of soil to make it better. I really enjoy to hear how you have managed to build soil that you can grow garden produce in when you didn't have much to start with. I think many people can learn from what you and others have done.
At one time there were a lot of mighty fox hunters south of Paris around Magazine Mountain. My Grandfather claimed that he was related to everyone from Paris to Magazine (the town). A squirrel never had a chance. Ha!

Even though you don't have deep soil by tilling as deeply as you can it allows water a place to drain down through the soil so air can get into the soil and the plants can breath, also gives a place for the roots to grow down. If you didn't deep till there would be a hardpan and the roots would stop and spread out instead of growing downward. There is no need to remove the grass as when you turn it under the soil will smother it out and it will make organic matter that will rot. Old men are supposed to use their brain instead of muscle, that's why they have gotten old.

Where do you get all the grass clippings? Do you catch them in a bag on your mower?

Auther, those are pine shavings. There is a small sawmill about 8 or 10 miles south of me that cuts shims used in the coal mines around here. It is a very small one-man operation and I get the shavings just for hauling them off. I also get about 5 or 6 pickup loads shredded leaves each year. The shavings work very well around the edge of the beds because the are "Rip-cut" with the grain and stay in place very well. The shredded leaves work very well as mulch. I also get free bamboo poles for stakes and trellises.

Thank you for all this insight into your soil building operation. Apparently the pine shavings aren't doing the soil any harm. I think this is very interesting as you are actually making your own soil.

Auther, since you mentioned grass clippings in your post, I will show you how I collect the clippings that I harvest. Because I live in a low wet area my clippings are often too wet to bag, so I cut the grass and let it lay in the sun for a day or two, then wind-row it with the rider mower. I then use a self propelled small mower to pick up the half dried clippings. I then dump them on a large conveyor belt pulled behind a mower. when I have the grass clipping harvested I then pull the conveyor belt up to, or on the garden and the rake the clippings off. I try to leave as many clippings as I can on the lawn to improve the soil, but if they get too heavy they don't look nice and I harvest them for the garden and flower beds

Larry

Please excuse the uneven cut, I use my mower more like a brush hog than a mower.

Personally I don't think the lawn needs as much building up as the garden soil. Plus you don't eat the grass, I guess you could but I don't think it would set as well as garden produce on your stomach. I think what you are doing is pretty neat. Do you have any trouble with the grass seed when it is put in the garden? I can't use my lawn grass as it is full of crabgrass & sandburs and it just spreads the seed around. I do use a lot of pine straw. The people on the forum would laugh at the way I put organic material on my garden. But I think what you are doing is amazing.

Auther, I cant say that I don't have trouble with grass and weed seeds, actually I think I have less trouble than most. When I mover back on the old home place about 12 or 13 years ago, and my step dad saw the way I gardened, he said that I would ruin my garden what all the hay and grass I used on it. I told him that it did not matter if he believed the Bible or science, grass and weeds were here before man, and they would probably be here when man was gone, and if he was afraid of grass and weed seed he should go in the house and hide under the bed. He is no longer able to gardens, but in the past my garden always had fewer weeds and grass than his did. I think that mulch is best way to reduce grass and weeds.

Larry

When I made my small raised be I dug out all the grass. I am not sure how you can just till the grass under and it will not come back, at least in my part of the state. Every one here has bermuda grass and it's a pain in the you-know-what. It's got not trouble coming up from tilled ground- it spreads by seeds, runners, root segments left behind. It doesn't mind being covered all year by plastic to try and kill it. As soon as you remove the covering, it's growing again. I am getting ready to dig another small bed, and if there is a way to simply till the grass into the bed and not dig it out please, please tell me because I want to do that instead~

My garden is surrounded by Bermuda grass and for several years I used a rototiller and they are the worse way to spread Bermuda rhizomes there is. I would keep it tilled up every week but the Bermuda would keep coming back. After the rototiller wore out I started using an old push garden plow. The only way I was able to eradicate the Bermuda was to take a shovel and dig as deep as the roots grew and pull it out by hand. This takes a lot of dedication and a lot of digging but now my garden is clear of Bermuda though it is still surrounded by it. It might help to till your ground up after the weather turns cold and it starts freezing at night if the roots are turned up in dry soil some will be killed by the freezing. I don't know how other people manage to get rid of Bermuda grass, every time I ever tried to start a compost pile the Bermuda grass would take it over. If you plié enough mulch over the spot you intend to use it might choke it out.

Yup, just as I feared. Nope, I will keep digging it out by hand in the manner you described. Back breaking work :-(

I have a relative who built a raised bed with a 2x6 border and laid some heavy cardboard in the bottom and filled it with store bought bagged garden soil. The cardboard smothered out the grass, I don't know if it was Bermuda grass, but it worked very well..

As I posted above, I don't have a lot of weed or grass problems. I would guess that crabgrass is the one I have to dig out most often. My soil has washed down on top of my pine shavings in this area. I will try to show my most favorite Bermuda removing tool, it looks rusty because it hangs in the garden most of the growing season

This is a picture of the spot above that I started 18 month ago. I have a row of some type of greens planted in now. You see I have weeds but they are not a problem now.

I will try to show another spot just south of the greens. The only problem weed I have here is volunteer tomato plants, but the soon coming frost will kill them.

I will try to show my broccoli and cabbage, they were planted about 51 days ago and have had no care at all and were not mulched You will also see Bermuda trying to creep across my pine shavings border but it is too cold for it to grow fast and I will did it out before winter, the roots pull out of the shavings very easily.

It seems to me that if you get Bermuda out of your garden and keep it out, it is much less of problem. Bermuda is not my most pesky.

Larry

Thanks for the pictures. It doesn't look like you have much problem with any weeds or grass. A person has to stay on top of things keep grass & weeds from taking over the garden.

Slowpoke gardener? I notice what looks like a bunch of peelings dumped in a pile on one of your beds in one of the pictures above. I pitch all the peelings and scraps out in the garden and let them rot where they lay. I don't feel like there is any thing wrong with this as they rot and disappear into the soil.

Auther, yes I dump nearly all veggie scraps in the garden. If you look at the broccoli picture you can see cantaloupe plants, maybe some water melons vines, tomato plants and about anything else. I had rather not do things that way but I don't walk well and the garden is the closest place to the back door I can dump anything. I don't dump any kind of meat or grease in the garden. I even throw corn cobs and water melons rinds in the garden.

Larry

I don't dump any meat or grease in the garden just peelings, watermelon & cantaloupe rinds old lettuce, cabbage and stuff like that. I know it's not the way it should be done but like you said it's just easier for me. I also have quite a few volunteer sprouts come up most I cut down but occasionally something will come up that I will transplant to another location and let grow. It depends on what it is. I have a plum & a peach tree that grew from volunteer seed and have no idea what variety they are but they make fruit that I pick and to eat & make jelly. I also have a volunteer strawberry plant that I have been taking care of all summer, if it lives I will move it to a more suitable place where it can stay. There used to be an old lady who had what she called her surprise garden, she would throw all her scraps in her garden and what ever came up would just work and take care of it. She didn't care what it was and it was all ways a surprise.